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Old 05-31-2009, 01:07 PM   #106
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now that i've mocked with a picture of lebron quivering as if he's about to break into tears... let me simply address what you've stated.

yes, you are right. i am jumping on the dwight howard bandwagon. he continues to impress not only with his improved ability year after year but with his personality, his humble nature about which he speaks about his game, and his work ethic.

where lebron was quoted after last season as saying his game is where it needs to be and he only needs to tweek a thing or two, dwight howard was quoted last night on espn's sunday conversation as saying his game is only about 20% of where it should be and he's not even close to the player he wants to be.

his game needs a lot of work, but he knows this. and he puts the work in... he's working on footwork with ewing before game 6.

and no, i did not say he wanted to develop a consistant mid-range jumper. i said respectable from 8 to 10 feet. mid-range jumper's are generaly thought of to be foul line jumpers... the foul line is 15 feet. i'm talking, and they're talking, more dotted line and in. out of the question? absolutely not. what they're talking about is pretty much the tim duncan face and pull up. certainly something that can be developed to a respectable level between now and next off season.

dwight howard is 22/23 years old... he is at the age where most players would be just entering the league or maybe a year in back in the day. big men take longer to develop than guards. always have, always will. most big men don't hit their prime until their mid to late 20's, then start to fade away by 32/33.

yes, his field goal percentage is high because of dunks. he's a center. that's what centers do. that's what big men do. ya know what else big men do? they win championships. 11 of the last 18 NBA titles were won by teams featuring a dominant big man... shaq, duncan, garnett, olajuwon. the only exceptions were 6 titles by jordan and one by the pistons. there is one dominant big man in this year's playoffs, and low and behold, his team is in the finals.

and the last thing that you wrote is the easiest to respond to...

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As for LeBron, can we please realize that the media image is not the man? This is true of any celebrity or sports icon, but many of you seem incapable of realizing that these people are to a large extent encumbered by what the media wants them to be. The media declared LeBron the "Chosen One" - he did not give himself that title. There is no reason to misdirect your displeasure at the media to the man himself. This is the same sort of attitude that goes on in the survivors over in B&C: "I heard Stairway to Heaven twice on the radio yesterday, so it must suck." He cannot control the level of his media exposure, except perhaps by refusing commercial offers - but why would he do that? Would any of you reject millions of dollars in endorsements? LeBron came into the league with the tremendous weight of expectation and has almost invariably handled that pressure with grace. Furthermore if he happens to come to any of your favorite teams in 2010, I doubt that you will then be complaining.
this honestly made me laugh.

really... it's all the media? it's not him? he hasn't created this saviour-like image of himself, shrowded in a cloud with his arms spread wide before every game? the media did that?

the media claims he's the chosen one, not him? he has nothing to do with it?


the media is responsible for the whole "witness" thing? it has nothing to do with him? he doens't embelish it?


give me a break. are you not aware that he had the "king james" nickname before his junior year of high school, before he became a media sensation? what, his attempt to declare for the nba draft before his senior year of high school was a creation of the media?


and yes... if lebron becomes a knick after next season, i will root for him. of course... that's the way sports goes.

but let me state now that he's not my first choice... that i'd rather them get amar'e stoudamire and another second level star and build with young players, and that i want no part of diane wade, and that i'd prefer if lebron stayed in cleveland.

but yes... i'll root for him if he does decide to be a knick.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:06 PM   #107
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but yes... i'll root for him if he does decide to be a knick.
In the end this is all that matters. When he goes to New York and you begin to root for him then all of this vitriol becomes inconsequential and self-righteous.

And please do not tell me that Dwight Howard is humble. He does well with the media, but the man also wore a bloody Superman cape. No NBA superstar is humble. Furthermore, you and I both know that LeBron had investors and the like in his ear from the time that he first won Mr. Basketball in his sophomore year, and especially from the time that he was on the cover of SI. Certainly he embellishes the image, but to claim that he created it himself is preposterous. Without the marketing and investment his image is absolutely nothing. Do you think that if he had that tattoo on his back, but Nike had never erected the witness sign off I-90, that anyone would be paying attention to such a claim? Do you think that if the broadcasters did not insist on focusing on him throwing chalk in the air every night that anyone beyond the people in the front row would care that he did it? On top of that, he does copious amounts of charity work, never plays dirty, never talks down to reporters, and always shows respect for the opposing team - with the possible exception of last night. Universally people who are asked about him will say that he is a class act. Yet people will equate him with Mussolini based on his pregame chalk throwing. Just scroll back through the posts in this thread or under any NBA story and find how many people are gloating that Nike's LeBron-Kobe finals has failed to transpire. What people hate is the media image. Who knows, maybe you look beyond that and find him self-aggrandizing. But that would make you one of the very few that see beyond the media image.

As for Howard - and this not meant to be sarcastic - maybe you could tell me what he has been working on for the past five years that he is just now considering an 8-10 foot game. Certainly Duncan, Olajuwan, and Garnett were far more offensively developed by this point in their careers. My suspicion is that Howard is just a physical prodigy; a tremendous defensive player who will never have a well-rounded offensive game.
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Old 05-31-2009, 07:58 PM   #108
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That said, a huge reason LA is in the finals and Cleveland is not is because the Lakers have big men who can score. Bynum and Odom are better than any PF or C that Cleveland has, and they have Gasol. .
You did watch Bynum "play" in this series right?
He may be the most overhyped player in the league and thats saying a lot.

Gasol has been huge in the playoffs, and Odom has been very good as well. Now can they hold up in the finals if the Magic get physical. Last year both wilted when the Celts bodied them, if Ron Jeremy is smart, he watches last year's film and takes advantage of some muscle down low.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:24 PM   #109
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I am not saying that Bynum and Odom are the reason LA won.

More of what I meant was this. One, Kobe has Gasol. Compare that to LeBron having Mo Williams. That's your two stars of each team. Who would you take?

This next point I am still working through in my own head. But I would rather have the supporting players that the Lakers have. Ariza, Fisher, Odom, Bynum, Walton, Brown/Farmar, and yes, even Sasha. Compare...Delonte West, Z, Varejao, Wally, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Pavlovic, Boobie Gibson. I believe that given this list of players, the problem is the supporting cast rather than Kobe/LeBron. But, I could be wrong.


There is something to be said about running an actual offense instead of giving the ball to one guy for an entire quarter and letting him go.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:27 PM   #110
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I hate this NBA finals. The only guy I like on either team is Jameer Nelson, and he isn't even playing.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:53 PM   #111
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I hate this NBA finals. The only guy I like on either team is Jameer Nelson, and he isn't even playing.
Wishful thinking:

Orlando Magic evaluating Jameer Nelson's status to play in NBA Finals - ESPN

Bring him out in the wheelchair, Paul Pierce-style.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:56 PM   #112
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That's wild. In his sideline interview just the other day there was mention of something about doctors telling him he might not even be ready for the start of the 09-10 season.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:05 PM   #113
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Great, that's all we need is some Kirk Gibson shenanigans.

Nelson is pretty much the reason the Lakers lost to the Magic twice this season.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:26 PM   #114
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That's wild. In his sideline interview just the other day there was mention of something about doctors telling him he might not even be ready for the start of the 09-10 season.
Right. This is quite the pickle.
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:12 PM   #115
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Old 06-01-2009, 07:25 AM   #116
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I like Turkoglu, my favorite European in the NBA.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:53 AM   #117
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In the end this is all that matters. When he goes to New York and you begin to root for him then all of this vitriol becomes inconsequential and self-righteous.
you can take your self-righteous claims and do something with them that i'd probably get yelled at by the mods for telling you to do.

anyone who posts on this thread knows full well that just because i root for the knicks does not mean i like every knick... in fact i despise a large majority of them.

if lebron does eventually come to the knicks (like him finally showing up yesterday with a yankees hat on wasn't planned), then yes... i will root for him to succeed. but if he comes with the same self-rightous god complex, then i will not neccesarily enjoy rooting for him, and i will not like him and embrace him unless he tones that down considerably.

Quote:
As for Howard - and this not meant to be sarcastic - maybe you could tell me what he has been working on for the past five years that he is just now considering an 8-10 foot game. Certainly Duncan, Olajuwan, and Garnett were far more offensively developed by this point in their careers. My suspicion is that Howard is just a physical prodigy; a tremendous defensive player who will never have a well-rounded offensive game.
your suspicion is based largely on a lack of knowledge of simple facts...

dwight howard entered this season at 22 years of age. he is now 23. he averaged 20 and 13 this year.

when hakeem olajuwon was 22 years old, he was a rookie who averaged 20 & 11. he did not become a mid to upper 20 ppg scorer until his late 20's early 30s.

tim duncan at 22 was 21 and 11 and in just his second year in the league.

garnett at 22 was 20 and 10 and in his 4th year in the league.

garnett is your closest comparison in that he was straight out of high school.

patrick ewing at 22 was still in college. at 23 he was 20 and 9 per game. he did not become a mid to upper 20's scorer till his late 20s.

david robinson, who howard is compared to often due to their almost identical build, was still in the navy at 22 and did not enter the NBA until 24. he came in averaging 24 a game and did not become a high 20's scorer until his late 20's.

the point is, short of shaquile o'neal, big men develop slowly. they take time to get fundamental moves down because most of them have a lack of coordination due to their quick growth. it isn't until their mid to late 20's that they hit their full potential... and they also usually burn out quickly by their mid 30's because of the beating their bodies take, but that's besides the point.

guards develop much much quicker than centers. olajuwon was skinny and raw at the same age as howard. duncan was very rigid... always has been. garnett was smoother but he was always more of a face up player than a back to the basketbal player like howard.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:10 AM   #118
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“It’s hard for me to congratulate somebody after you just lose to them,” he said. “I’m a winner. It’s not being a poor sport or anything like that. If somebody beats you up, you’re not going to congratulate them. That doesn’t make sense to me. I’m a competitor. That’s what I do. It doesn’t make sense for me to go over and shake somebody’s hand.”

Whatever, LeBitch. It's poor sportsmanship, and to use his own metaphor, boxers routinely embrace at the end of matches after beating each other up.
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:15 AM   #119
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it was scummy when the pistons did it, it's scummy that lebron did it.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:23 PM   #120
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it was scummy when the pistons did it, it's scummy that lebron did it.
Agreed.
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