NBA Basketball 2007-08: The Thread Part II

[Headache in a Suitcase]

well... at least it's not terry porter... i think

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I loved watching Olajuwon, amazing skill level especially for a big man. I'd take Hakeem over any center I've ever seen play though granted I'm too young to have seen Russell or Kareem at his peak.

honestly... what a privledge it was to watch the great low post players of the 80's and 90's. ya know, back when they had moves and weren't just athletic man-child freaks like dwight howard.

shit... rik smits very well might be the best center in the league if he played today, and he was like, oh i dunno, 6th best back in the day.

 

[CTU2fan]

Just wait until that pillar of finesse Hasheem Thabeet hits the NBA

To be fair some of these guys (Ewing, Hakeem) were singular talents, and we were just fortunate enough to see them at pretty much the same time. I mean, nobody's killing the Rockets for passing on Jordan to pick Hakeem. The crop of centers in the league now are all just flawed...there's the athletic Howard types, the European finesse centers (Z, Pau), and Yao. And there's nobody coming along either; Greg Oden looks like another of these limited offensive bigs that the league is filled with.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i hate haseem thabet.

and pau's not a center. or at least shouldn't be. he should be a 4.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Little is known about his basketball philosophy since he never has coached before. Del Negro interviewed for the Suns' coaching job that Terry Porter landed on Saturday, but failed to make Kerr's list of four finalists.

I guess Del Negro didn't have the time to make an impresion on steve kerr in his short interview period. Maybe it was because his previous job took up to much of his time, his previous job of course being STEVE KERR'S ASSISTANT.

 

[No spoken words]

Just wait until that pillar of finesse Hasheem Thabeet hits the NBA

To be fair some of these guys (Ewing, Hakeem) were singular talents, and we were just fortunate enough to see them at pretty much the same time. I mean, nobody's killing the Rockets for passing on Jordan to pick Hakeem. The crop of centers in the league now are all just flawed...there's the athletic Howard types, the European finesse centers (Z, Pau), and Yao. And there's nobody coming along either; Greg Oden looks like another of these limited offensive bigs that the league is filled with.

Ewing didn't really have great lowpost moves....he developed into a nice shooter, though. The thing about Hakeem, is, he WAS a man-child when he got to the NBA. Check out his college highlights....not a lot of actual moves...but he worked his fucking ass off, and became about as polished downlow as one can get. How much time does Howard spend on footwork, as opposed to dreaming up his next amazing dunk?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Ewing didn't really have great lowpost moves....he developed into a nice shooter, though. The thing about Hakeem, is, he WAS a man-child when he got to the NBA. Check out his college highlights....not a lot of actual moves...but he worked his fucking ass off, and became about as polished downlow as one can get. How much time does Howard spend on footwork, as opposed to dreaming up his next amazing dunk?

ewing didn't have the flashy moves that olajuwon had but he had an amazing understanding of the single most important thing a post player needs to, um, understand... how to use your oppoents body and weight to your advantage. he was a master of getting a guy to lean a certain way and then going the opposite direction, be it the baseline fall away jumper or the pattened ewing 2 & 1/2 step runner in the lane. he was also a tremendous passer from the post, a lost art gone the way of the mid-range jumper, which ewing was also great at

 

[No spoken words]

ewing didn't have the flashy moves that olajuwon had but he had an amazing understanding of the single most important thing a post player needs to, um, understand... how to use your oppoents body and weight to your advantage. he was a master of getting a guy to lean a certain way and then going the opposite direction, be it the baseline fall away jumper or the pattened ewing 2 & 1/2 step runner in the lane. he was also a tremendous passer from the post, a lost art gone the way of the mid-range jumper, which ewing was also great at

Agreed. Forgot about his little runner.

 

[CTU2fan]

Well clearly Howard hasn't been spending enough time on his dunks since he didn't come up with the cupcake one...slacker.

You're right about Ewing, he kind of went more with that short jumper of his but still a skill move as opposed to being a one-dimensional dunker. Ewing actually developed some nice range for a guy his size.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

ewing was money from 15 feet.

ahhh memories...
YouTube - NBA on NBC 1994 Knicks/Pacers Game 7 Finish - Part 2/2

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

a courtside observation of kobe bryant, by none other than basketball guru curt schilling

Kobe. This one stunned me a little bit. Who doesn’t know Kobe Bryant right? I only know what I have heard, starting awhile back with the entire Shaq debacle. I don’t really have an opinion one way or the other on or about him other than to know that people feel he might be one of the 4-5 greatest players to ever lace it up. What I do know is what I got to see up close and hear, was unexpected. From the first tip until about 4 minutes left in the game I saw and heard this guy bitch at his teammates. Every TO he came to the bench pissed, and a few of them he went to other guys and yelled about something they weren’t doing, or something they did wrong. No dialog about “hey let’s go, let’s get after it” or whatever. He spent the better part of 3.5 quarters pissed off and ranting at the non-execution or lack of, of his team. Then when they made what almost was a historic run in the 4th, during a TO, he got down on the floor and basically said ‘Let’s f’ing go, right now, right here” or something to that affect. I am not making this observation in a good or bad way, I have no idea how the guys in the NBA play or do things like this, but I thought it was a fascinating bit of insight for me to watch someone in another sport who is in the position of a team leader and how he interacted with his team and teammates. Watching the other 11 guys, every time out it was high fives and “Hey nice work, let’s get after it” or something to that affect. He walked off the floor, obligatory skin contact on the high five, and sat on the bench stone faced or pissed off, the whole game. Just weird to see another sport and how it all works. I would assume that’s his style and how he plays and what works for him because when I saw the leader board for scoring in the post season his name sat up top at 31+ a game, can’t argue with that. But as a fan I was watching the whole thing, Kobe, his teammates and then the after effects of conversations. He’d yell at someone, make a point, or send a message, turn and walk away, and more than once the person on the other end would roll eyes or give a ‘whatever dude’ look.

 

[No spoken words]

Yes, and when Schilling throws a hissy fit when a manager yanks him from a game, that instills a lot of confidence in the bullpen.

 

[phanan]

I was wondering when someone would post Schilling's musings on Kobe.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

Thanks for posting that, Headache, it's pretty interesting I guess.

But, it's Curt Schilling. You have to take what he says about the game of BASKETBALL with a pretty big grain of salt.

Bloody socks and all.

 

[phanan]

Bloody socks and all.

Do I even want to know what you mean by this?

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

Do I even want to know what you mean by this?

Curt is a badass on the baseball diamond, but honestly I don't give a shit what he has to say about basketball.

That was my point. Perhaps it wasn't very well-stated...my bad.

 

[phanan]

I just got thrown off by the bloody sock part.

 

[Hewson]

I just got thrown off by the bloody sock part.

Obviously Girls ascribes to the ketchup theory.

 

[namkcuR]

Potentially BIG TIME breaking news...apparently Tim Donaghy - the former ref nailed for gambling on NBA games - is ratting the league out to the feds in some sort of an attempt/deal to save his own ass, or get a lighter sentence, or something of the sort. He told the feds that two NBA refs known in the league at the time as 'company guys' were given a mandate in a 2002 to make sure a playoff series that year went seven games. The articles covering this don't name the series specifically, but there was only one seven-game series in 2002 - the Lakers-Kings WCF. You can bet your ass he's talking about that notorious game 6, including the infamous foul call on Bibby after he had been elbowed in the face by Kobe. Donaghy is basically saying the league was behind it.

He also said that the league tells its refs specifically not to call technical fouls on star players and especially not to eject star players.

There is also some mention of an incident involving the Rockets, Mavs, Yao, and JVG from a few years back that I am not very familiar with.

I mean...some will say, and are already saying, 'why should we believe anything Donaghy says?' but....if he's ratting these people out to save his own ass, he'd only get in bigger trouble if he gave the feds false info. Plus, all of this is very believable.

Oh, and ESPN already getting flack for conveniently not really mentioning the Lakers/Kings thing in their article about it. Many expect ESPN to lay low about this considering that they have the NBA's contract right now.

If this is true...wow.

 

[thetitans2k]

Is anyone really suprised by any of that?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Potentially BIG TIME breaking news...apparently Tim Donaghy - the former ref nailed for gambling on NBA games - is ratting the league out to the feds in some sort of an attempt/deal to save his own ass, or get a lighter sentence, or something of the sort. He told the feds that two NBA refs known in the league at the time as 'company guys' were given a mandate in a 2002 to make sure a playoff series that year went seven games. The articles covering this don't name the series specifically, but there was only one seven-game series in 2002 - the Lakers-Kings WCF. You can bet your ass he's talking about that notorious game 6, including the infamous foul call on Bibby after he had been elbowed in the face by Kobe. Donaghy is basically saying the league was behind it.

He also said that the league tells its refs specifically not to call technical fouls on star players and especially not to eject star players.

There is also some mention of an incident involving the Rockets, Mavs, Yao, and JVG from a few years back that I am not very familiar with.

I mean...some will say, and are already saying, 'why should we believe anything Donaghy says?' but....if he's ratting these people out to save his own ass, he'd only get in bigger trouble if he gave the feds false info. Plus, all of this is very believable.

Oh, and ESPN already getting flack for conveniently not really mentioning the Lakers/Kings thing in their article about it. Many expect ESPN to lay low about this considering that they have the NBA's contract right now.

If this is true...wow.

it's a load of crap by a guy who's trying to save his ass, and it's not very believable at all. do refs have points of emphasis? yes. do they take things out on guys they don't like some times? yes. does the make up call exist? of course. do stars get preferential treatment? shit... HIGH SCHOOL refs give out rep calls to certain players... of course the nba guys do as well. is there a grand vast conspiracy by david stern and the refs to rig games? of course not.

here's a list of guys who've collected 10 or more T's in a season since after the alleged incident that dongahy points to. it's filled with all stars and MVP's... shockingly enough, not one mention of ron artest... and frankly the majority of the names on this last are those who would be considered "star players."

Ten Or More Technical Fouls In A Season

2007-2008
Kobe Bryant - 15 (also led league in ejections)(league MVP)
Baron Davis - 13
Rasheed Wallace - 12
Amare Stoudamire - 11
Carmelo Anthony - 11
Brad Miller - 11
Kenyon Martin - 11
Chris Paul - 11
Cuttino Mobley - 11
Mikki Moore - 10
Andres Nocioni - 10
Tyson Chandler - 10
Raja Bell - 10
Linas Kleiza - 10


2006-2007
Rasheed Wallace - 21 (also led league in ejections)
Amare Stoudamire - 15
Richard Hamilton - 15
Kobe Bryant - 14
Gerald Wallace - 13
Carmelo Anthony - 13
Stephen Jackson - 13
Kevin Garnett - 13
Mikki Moore - 12
Jermaine O'Neal - 12
Dirk Nowitzki - 12 (league MVP)
Allen Iverson - 12
Ricky Davis - 11
Lamar Odom - 11

2005-2006
Rasheed Wallace - 17
Kobe Bryant - 15
Allen Iverson - 13
Stephen Jackson - 12
Carmello Anthony - 10
Andre Miller - 10
Ruben Patterson - 10

2004-2005
Rasheed Wallace - 27
Danny Fortson - 23
Steve Francis - 22
Kenyon Martion - 17
Amare Stoudamire - 15
Antoine walker - 15
Kelvin Cato - 15
Joel Pryzbilla - 14
Dirk Nowitzki - 14
Gary Payton - 14
Jerome James - 12
Paul Pierce - 12
Brad Miller - 12
Reggie Evans - 11
Kobe Bryant - 11
Jermaine O'Neal - 11
Bob Sura - 11
Bonzi Wells - 11
Tyson Chandler - 10
Richard Hamilton - 10
Raja Bell - 10
Desmond Mason - 10
Rubern Patterson - 10
Shareef Abdur-Rahim - 10
Allen Iverson - 10
Baron Davis - 10
Alonzo Mourning - 10

2003-2004
Steve Francis - 19
Rasheed Wallace - 18
Jermaine O'Neal - 16
Kevin Garnett - 16 (league MVP)
Baron Davis - 16
Raja Bell - 15
Ben Wallace - 13
Jamaal Magloire - 12
Shaquille O'Neal - 12
Stephen Jackson - 12
Gary Payton - 12
Shareef Abdur-Rahim - 11
Vlade Divac - 11
Antoine Walker - 11
Bonzi Wells - 11
Lamar Odom - 10
Brad Miller - 10
Richard Jefferson - 10
Lorenzen Wright - 10
Kobe Bryant - 10



as someone who coaches basketball i have a large hatred for anyone wearing the black and white stripes. i think they all suck. but these claims are a ridiculous attempt by a guy grasping for whatever he can.

if he had claimed that some obscure regular season game instead of a famously poorly reffed game that he said was rigged, i'd believe him more.


it's easy for the lay person to say that a game like this year's finals game 2 was "rigged" because of the difference in fouls... completely ignoring that the two teams play a vastly different style from each other. the lakers are a more finese team that shoots a ton of jumpers, the celtics go to the basket much more, which would obviously draw more contact, thus more fouls.

 

[Got Philk?]

I think back to Portland, or Minnesota, and definitely Sacramento and remember those games being times when I began questioning the NBA and fixing games. It's too bad.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

A strange but intense first half.

Kobe being more aggressive but missing 5 free throws, Garnett's shot is broke, Gasol playing like a girl, P.J. Brown going toe to toe with little Jordan Farmar, Sasha Vujacic looking like the second coming of Steve Kerr.

Bring on the second half. Go Lakers.

 

[phanan]

Yet the Celtics are only down by 6, and you know Pierce and Garnett will get some points before all is said and done.

I certainly won't be shocked if the Lakers win this one, but I'm still betting the Celtics take one of these.

 

[Lila64]

A strange but intense first half.

Kobe being more aggressive but missing 5 free throws, Garnett's shot is broke, Gasol playing like a girl, P.J. Brown going toe to toe with little Jordan Farmar, Sasha Vujacic looking like the second coming of Steve Kerr.

Bring on the second half. Go Lakers.

Kobe missing those freethrows? WTF? Still playing great though.
Gasol - make a frickin' shot, would you?!!?!

Vujacic

Back to the TV

 

[Butterscotch]

For those of you who hate cheating scandals: NBA former ref claims playoffs are rigged

Ex-NBA referee: playoff series manipulated - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

 

[No spoken words]

For those of you who hate cheating scandals: NBA former ref claims playoffs are rigged

Ex-NBA referee: playoff series manipulated - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

We covered that. On this very page.

 

[Got Philk?]

I think back to Portland, or Minnesota, and definitely Sacramento and remember those games being times when I began questioning the NBA and fixing games. It's too bad.

 

[phanan]

We covered that. On this very page.

And Headache's post pretty much said it all.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

Phew.

Just got back from my victory cigarette. That was a nail-biter. Great game.

Kobe is insane. Huge shot by Vujacic down the stretch there. This is going to end up one hell of a series.

And I've gotten in trouble for this before so all I'm going to do is ask who that blonde girl was sitting to Jack Nicholson's left? I guess I'll just say that I'm curious about her. Anybody have any ideas??? Jack's daughter maybe?

Go Lakers!