National Hockey League 2010-2011

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Right - but there's no reason to discredit the 'fan' as opposed to the entire fanbase.

And that being said, the main reason why I said earlier that I feel bad is because it was indeed quite out of the blue. Once again, all of the rumblings were going on in Phoenix about a month ago. They were getting ready to basically become the Winnipeg Jets once again. Those fans were pissed off because they weren't going to get a chance to say goodbye. Now, neither do the real fans in Atlanta.
 
Bono_man, I'm curious as to how you started watching hockey. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm wondering if there are many hockey fans in Australia and, if so, if you get together to watch it or something? That would be fantastic.
 
You see, what you're doing here is misrepresenting the fan.

The fan goes to enough games, and does his or her part in creating attendance. The fan does not control attendance numbers and can only speak for his or herself.

They didn't ignore anything. There's still tons of fans who were passionate about that team who didn't deserve to lose it. And they got no heads up on it either. The team literally just got cut - like that.

As an Expos fan, I felt like my heart was being ripped out when they moved in 2004, so I understand this reasoning all too well.

Then again, circumstances turned a vibrant baseball market into an apathetic one, meaning fans weren't turning out to games.

They really don't have enough fans to justify keeping the team there.

So I'm inclined to agree with Dan here. They had a 'Save the Thrashers' rally the other day, and only 200 fans or so turned out. Not really a convincing argument against moving, if you ask me.
 
Hard to feel bad for them. 2nd team they've lost due to poor attendance. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Let's stop blaming the fans here when the ownership group deserves all of the blame. First, they sued each other, and then once that was cleared up, they sued their own lawyers who drafted the original sale. They did very little to put a winning product on the ice to draw in an indecisive potential fan base. The Thrashers made the playoffs ONCE (and were out in four straight). It is my understanding that the arena sold out during the two playoffs games (something that even the Hawks struggle with).

There is a strong corporate culture here in Atlanta, and a load of Northeast transplants (I fit into both of those categories). This is my first "full" year here in Atlanta and looked into joining a season ticket group (backed out due to buying a house). I ended up going to seven games (mind you, tickets were left for me by three of the visiting teams for four of those games - but we did purchase tickets to the other three games).

IF you fail to put a decent product on the ice in a sport that is still unfamiliar for 65% of the population - you are not going to draw fans.

If you had an ownership group that put some effort into it - they may have received something in return and could have potentially found a local buyer.

I have been to games in Columbus and Long Island (plenty of games in Long Island) and have seen more fans at Thrashers games.

I will not go into the whole "Bettman saves Phoenix but screws Atlanta" argument. Just know that if Coyotes moved back to the Peg, the league would have missed out on the $60 Million transfer fee.
 
So I'm inclined to agree with Dan here. They had a 'Save the Thrashers' rally the other day, and only 200 fans or so turned out. Not really a convincing argument against moving, if you ask me.

No, I'm not against moving them. It's unfortunate, but it's right.

What's wrong is cutting them off out of the random. Just packing up shop and leaving to Winnipeg without much notice.
 
Is there an example of hockey working in southern states? I can't think of one.

It's worked to varying degrees of success in Tampa Bay, Dallas, and Raleigh. And if we're talking other non-traditional markets, the Bay Area and Orange County have been successful.

Nashville took a huge step forward this season with their playoff run.
 
BoMac said:
Bono_man, I'm curious as to how you started watching hockey. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm wondering if there are many hockey fans in Australia and, if so, if you get together to watch it or something? That would be fantastic.

I only started watching mid January after I played NHL 11 (now my favorite PS3 game) at a friends place (a new penguins fan) We then watched a few highlights of a few games. I picked Canucks as my team, only because Robin from How I Met Your Mother does. (well there's an EP where she's wearing Lungo's jersey....) anywho I had no idea they had one of the best teams in the league this year, but had never won the cup? I couldn't believe that...and they have had only what one trip to the finals?

Ice Hockey Is pretty much underground/alternative sport over here. It gets no coverage on the news (unless there is a freak accident) It's not even mentioned on cable TV at all until the playoffs. The only real way i've been able to watch any is through the gamecenter on NHL.com. So a small group of my friends occasionally get together to watch the games but most games fall during work hours.

The NBA is not too different, however with two Aussies in that league it gets a lot more airtime.


cobl04 said:
His AFL team isn't going very well, so he's got to look elsewhere for a sports fix :wink:

You ass :lol:
 
I only started watching mid January after I played NHL 11 (now my favorite PS3 game) at a friends place (a new penguins fan) We then watched a few highlights of a few games. I picked Canucks as my team, only because Robin from How I Met Your Mother does. (well there's an EP where she's wearing Lungo's jersey....) anywho I had no idea they had one of the best teams in the league this year, but had never won the cup? I couldn't believe that...and they have had only what one trip to the finals?

Ice Hockey Is pretty much underground/alternative sport over here. It gets no coverage on the news (unless there is a freak accident) It's not even mentioned on cable TV at all until the playoffs. The only real way i've been able to watch any is through the gamecenter on NHL.com. So a small group of my friends occasionally get together to watch the games but most games fall during work hours.

The NBA is not too different, however with two Aussies in that league it gets a lot more airtime.

Picking a team because of Scherbatsky? I find no fault with that. :wink:

Seriously, that's cool. I'm glad you're enjoying the games thus far.
 
Is there an example of hockey working in southern states? I can't think of one.

Depends. I think all of them are capable of working, but perhaps not all at the same time?

Take Washington for example. Used to be the laughing stock of the league in terms of winning and attendance. Now they're great with both. They're a southern team that certainly is thriving at the moment. A little someone named Alexander Ovechkin made that happen.

The Hurricanes? They tend to put on a pretty good attendance record, despite not always being in the playoffs.

Florida during the late 90s?
http://www.rattrick.com/images/rattrick_com/rat_ice_large.jpg
barrassorats.jpg


The Dallas Stars until this season? Phenomenal attendance record. Also, a winning team for the past 10+ years.

You'd just like to believe that it's because these teams are in the South that they have mediocre attendances. Yes, bad teams in the South wont survive. That rests in management just as much as it rests in the fans, though. The Panthers have been a losing team for over a decade now. They're not competitive, so nobody cares.

In short, no, a perennial loser in the South wont make it (Atlanta) unless they've got a sweet deal allowing them to (Florida). A competitive team in the South works just fine.
 
Also, I posit that a truly healthy NHL will include a team in Winnipeg and Quebec City and possibly relocating a struggling franchise to a U.S. market like Seattle, Portland, or Milwaukee if enthusiastic and stable local ownership can be found.

Seattle and/or Portland would make sense because you'd have a natural rivalry with Vancouver right away, and it would cut down on travel costs and time for other Western Conference teams - especially if Detroit is moved to the East.
 
People always talk about Detroit moving to the East.

Don't forget about Columbus and Nashville, first. In fact, it will be interesting to see which team gets re-aligned to the Southeast. Or, if they do away with the naming of Southeast and rename all of the Eastern divisions and realign them all.
 
People always talk about Detroit moving to the East.

Don't forget about Columbus and Nashville, first. In fact, it will be interesting to see which team gets re-aligned to the Southeast. Or, if they do away with the naming of Southeast and rename all of the Eastern divisions and realign them all.

Well, because Detroit is in the East. But I agree about Columbus. In fact, I think they may be moved first.
 
I only started watching mid January after I played NHL 11 (now my favorite PS3 game) at a friends place (a new penguins fan) We then watched a few highlights of a few games. I picked Canucks as my team, only because Robin from How I Met Your Mother does. (well there's an EP where she's wearing Lungo's jersey....) anywho I had no idea they had one of the best teams in the league this year, but had never won the cup? I couldn't believe that...and they have had only what one trip to the finals?

Ice Hockey Is pretty much underground/alternative sport over here. It gets no coverage on the news (unless there is a freak accident) It's not even mentioned on cable TV at all until the playoffs. The only real way i've been able to watch any is through the gamecenter on NHL.com. So a small group of my friends occasionally get together to watch the games but most games fall during work hours.

The NBA is not too different, however with two Aussies in that league it gets a lot more airtime.




You ass :lol:

That's awesome! :up:

Vancouver's been to the finals in '82 and '94.

I've said this many times so far this season, but something feels different about the team. I've always been confident in our chances in the playoffs, but the team this year has me absolutely convinced that this is the year we're finally going to win the cup. It's really exciting. :D

There's a golf course right near my house, and they have a notice board that always has witty sayings on it, and during playoffs time they're always Canucks related. There were a few rather witty ones over the past few weeks, but now they've started the countdown to the cup. :)
 
Well, because Detroit is in the East. But I agree about Columbus. In fact, I think they may be moved first.


Thrashers are in the Southeast conference - I think Nashville would fit better than Columbus. All three (Detroit, Nashville and Columbus) have BRUTAL travel schedules due to their alignment in the west.

PFan: I know you recently saw Atlanta and your friend got mugged (I think I read that). Was that your only trip to Atlanta?

I had a pretty negative impression of Atlanta for a long time. Now that I am down here, I know that there is a staggering amount of wealth (OLD southern money). And I cannot go very far in my neighborhood without tripping over someone from New England, NY/NJ or Philly. If my wife is wearing some of her Red Sox apparel or I am wearing some of my Flyers apparel - we will have at least one person approach us to talk sports (unfortunately it is often someone from NY/northern NJ). Having headquarters like Coke, Home Depot, Turner, Delta, etc. fosters that type of growth in a city.

I am not a Thrasher fan (that could have changed over time) - I am just an NHL fan that is bummed I finally get "back" to an NHL city and then the team leaves. This also could affect the wife's job at their practice facility (she is not tied to the Thrashers though).
 
It was three years ago, and the guy was just a guy I knew who wandered off like an idiot and deserved to get mugged. I liked the part of Atlanta I stayed in, don't get me wrong. I just noticed there were a lot of homeless people.

If you wanna talk about a southern city I don't like, we can talk about Dallas.
 
There is a strong corporate culture here in Atlanta, and a load of Northeast transplants (I fit into both of those categories). This is my first "full" year here in Atlanta and looked into joining a season ticket group (backed out due to buying a house).

Dude, you are a nomad.
Thats like 367 major sports markets you've lived in over the past decade. :wink:
 
Thrashers are in the Southeast conference - I think Nashville would fit better than Columbus. All three (Detroit, Nashville and Columbus) have BRUTAL travel schedules due to their alignment in the west.

PFan: I know you recently saw Atlanta and your friend got mugged (I think I read that). Was that your only trip to Atlanta?

I had a pretty negative impression of Atlanta for a long time. Now that I am down here, I know that there is a staggering amount of wealth (OLD southern money). And I cannot go very far in my neighborhood without tripping over someone from New England, NY/NJ or Philly. If my wife is wearing some of her Red Sox apparel or I am wearing some of my Flyers apparel - we will have at least one person approach us to talk sports (unfortunately it is often someone from NY/northern NJ). Having headquarters like Coke, Home Depot, Turner, Delta, etc. fosters that type of growth in a city.

I am not a Thrasher fan (that could have changed over time) - I am just an NHL fan that is bummed I finally get "back" to an NHL city and then the team leaves. This also could affect the wife's job at their practice facility (she is not tied to the Thrashers though).

Here's my post on another forum:

You're missing the main point, that Columbus is considered EAST while Nashville is considered WEST. As according to time zones, as well.

Detroit and Columbus are the two teams EAST that would have a higher likelihood of entering the EASTERN Conference. They also run on EST, making scheduling a ton easier. And no, Nashville is not '500 miles closer to us'. It's maaaaaybe 250 miles further away, and by flight that's like adding another 30 minutes.

Also, you're not taking into account that we're not the only ones in our division. Raleigh, North Carolina is probably closer to Columbus, anyways. Also, the Florida Panthers sole affiliate at the moment, ECHL's Cincinnati Cyclones, would be at a great advantage to have so close to a division rival.

Divisions are loosely based on the geography back when expansion and relocation were still popular and occurring. That's not the case anymore. Here are the potential cases -




Definite:

The Atlanta Thrashers become the Winnipeg Jets and move to the Northwest Division, removing the Colorado Avalanche from said division.

Probable:

The Colorado Avalanche join the Pacific Division, removing the Dallas Stars from said division.

The Dallas Stars take the vacant spot in the Central Division, where either Detroit, Columbus, or Nashville has left.


Scenarios:

- Detroit or Columbus joins the East and into the Atlantic Division and bumping either the New York Islanders or the Philadelphia Flyers into the Southeast Division
- Nashville or Columbus joins the East and into the Southeast Division filling in the vacant slot the Thrashers left.
- The NHL removes the division name Southeast and furthermore realigns the entire Eastern Conference under new division titles potentially putting a team like the Panthers in a new Atlantic Division.
- The NHL keeps the Winnipeg Jets in the East and creates a traveling nightmare so as to avoid a new scheduling nightmare, and resolves the issue a season later.

A bit on Nashville... while it's a very big possibility I think they'd be reluctant to choose Nashville because they're in a different time zone. It's hard to join the Eastern Conference if yo're not East.

And I think first and foremost you're joining the Eastern Conference before you're joining the Southeast Division.
 
People always talk about Detroit moving to the East.

Don't forget about Columbus and Nashville, first. In fact, it will be interesting to see which team gets re-aligned to the Southeast. Or, if they do away with the naming of Southeast and rename all of the Eastern divisions and realign them all.

Detroit will never be allowed to move East, ever.

Should the Thrashers move, watch for Nashville to move. All Little Gary has to do is put them in the SE and call it good.

The Wings want to move East, most of us Wings fans WANT them to move East. But Little Gary will move a team that's been in the NHL for 11 years or so over one that's been in the NHL for 80+ years.

And why the hell isn't he fighting to keep the Thrashers in Atlanta anyway? He did it for the Coyotes. Shit if I remember right he did it for Pittsburgh. Someone was willing to buy the Pens in the early 00's, but wanted to move them to Portland or something. Little Gary wouldn't let them move, whoever bought the Pens had to keep them in Pittsburgh.
 
Yes, and ones on those teams that don't have any fans. Such as the Florida Panthers, Florida Marlins, etc.

Except there are fans there, and lots of them :|
 
Detroit will never be allowed to move East, ever.

Should the Thrashers move, watch for Nashville to move. All Little Gary has to do is put them in the SE and call it good.

The Wings want to move East, most of us Wings fans WANT them to move East. But Little Gary will move a team that's been in the NHL for 11 years or so over one that's been in the NHL for 80+ years.

And why the hell isn't he fighting to keep the Thrashers in Atlanta anyway? He did it for the Coyotes. Shit if I remember right he did it for Pittsburgh. Someone was willing to buy the Pens in the early 00's, but wanted to move them to Portland or something. Little Gary wouldn't let them move, whoever bought the Pens had to keep them in Pittsburgh.

I think that's got a little something to do with the fact that the Atlanta ownership could no longer support the actual franchise. There was simply nothing going good for Atlanta. Historically bad team, mediocre talent pool, poor ownership, poor management, and a dying attendance record.

Someone like Phoenix has decent management, a good talent pool, and a history of being a successful team, even for a short period of time. Although their attendance has been rather pitiful. But Bettman clearly doesn't care about attendance, and nor should outsider fans. It's the business that matters.
 
Except, you know, I'd argue that Atlanta has a better crop of up and coming young players than Phoenix does.

? Atlanta has one of the worst prospect pools in hockey, in my opinion. Phoenix is somewhere around the middle, I'd figure. Both teams however both given early graduations to a ton of players that probably should've seen some time in the Juniors and AHL.

I mean, we're talking about an organization in Atlanta that boasts Carl Klingberg as it's top prospect and a bunch of utter garbage following that. They do have some nice young NHL playres such as Evander Kane, Zach Bogosian, and Bryan Little. But that's nothing incredibly impressive.

With Phoenix you're talking about a nice group of relatively young players even if they're not flashy names. Guys like Korpikosky, Keith Yandle, etc. etc. not to mention OEL. And then they're backed by a relevant prospect pool with guys like Brett MacLean, Brandon Gormley, and Viktor Tikhonov.

There's a considerable gap between the Atlanta prospects and the Phoenix prospects, actually.
 
Someone like Phoenix has decent management, a good talent pool, and a history of being a successful team, even for a short period of time. Although their attendance has been rather pitiful. But Bettman clearly doesn't care about attendance, and nor should outsider fans. It's the business that matters.


Good management? They had to be purchased by the league to avoid bankruptcy.

Yes...Nashville is in the CENTRAL time zone. One hour difference. Not that big of a deal. Plenty of other leagues have teams in multiple time zones in the same conference. Hell....the WESTERN CONFERENCE has/will have three time zones, It is a weak argument (have all of the teams in one time zone). Detroit or Columbus will still be screwed.

Evander Kane IS a pretty damn good prospect. Watch him play.
 
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