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Old 10-13-2012, 06:18 AM   #76
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Unless Peef is a closet Nationals fan, I don't understand why he should feel affronted by the way the team is managed.

Clearly, it was stupid. I agree it was stupid. But why the personal satisfaction? Drink 500 more beers and forget about it.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:11 AM   #77
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There's no guarantee that Strasburg would have led the team to a title this year, but there's also no guarantee that the Nats are going to make the playoffs the next several years either.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:14 AM   #78
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Go Tigers, I guess.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:54 AM   #79
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cause strasburg didn't pitch the 9th?
Obviously we can't know how this plays out if Strasburg is on the roster...but lets face it, if they handle him more like Atlanta handled Medlen in a similar situation, don't frontload his innings in April, May and June and he is on the roster, he pitches game 5, and you feel better about him not blowing a 6 run lead (see Verlander, Justin)...so it looks like a very stupid decision all things considered. Shutting down your best pitcher for the playoffs because you didn't have the foresight to rest him a bit during the early parts of the season to keep his innings count down just looks like as bad a decision as one can think of. If they don't get back to the playoffs in the near future, it will look far worse than it does this morning.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:39 AM   #80
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One month of not pitching means he'll never get hurt again!
How many promising young pitchers have flamed out thanks to overwork when they were young? How many that have been handled with kid gloves haven't? Kerry Wood and Mark Prior come to mind immediately. Who knows how things would have gone differently with 40 less innings a couple of those years.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:32 PM   #81
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1. As Hewson said, if that is the case, they should have cut down on his innings earlier in the season to have him available in the playoffs, especially when they had a huge lead in the NL East by mid-summer.

2. This entire thing was orchestrated by Scott Boras, not the Nationals. This is an agent who wants to get a huge contract in a few years, and a franchise who feels like they'll threaten to bolt at the first opportunity if they don't play his game. Not a franchise genuinely interested in the health and safety of its employees. A franchise scared an asset will fly the coop in a few years.

3. A guy who is injury-prone is not going to suddenly become not-injury-prone because you shut him down early one season. Strasburg is just as likely to get hurt next year as he was the year before.

4. Even if he wasn't injury-prone before this, he'd still be just as likely to get hurt next season because pitching is simply a thing that gets people injured. It's a violent motion for your arm over and over again. It's a crap shoot whether or not you'll get hurt, really. For every Kerry Wood you give me, I give you a Manny Banuelos. He had an innings limit in the Yankees organization. He's getting Tommy John anyway.

This is stupid for many reasons.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:43 PM   #82
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1. I agree with this point.
2. Then before he flies the coop, the team should trade him for a haul that's better than the A's got for Gio Gonzales. Never let an agent get you by the balls.
3. He'll have less innings on his arm. There's no proven study to say an extra workload can cause a better chance at injury, but there's also no study disproving it.
4. Manny Banuelos isn't exactly the same; Strasburg was probably the most hyped pitching prospect of all time. Manny Banuelos only gets the hype he gets because he's a Yankee. Similar to the hype Jesus Montero got.

All in all, Strasburg would have replaced Detwiler's production and one of Gio Gonzelez's starts. Detwiler threw the best game of the series. So it's unlikely the series would have turned out differently. With the exception that it would have been less likely that they'd have even gotten to game 5 for Stras to pitch again.

Now if Stras would have been replacing Edwin Jackson or Jordan Zimmermann in the rotation, then sure, they probably would have won the series. But he wouldn't have replaced one of those guys at all.
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:52 PM   #83
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4. Manny Banuelos isn't exactly the same; Strasburg was probably the most hyped pitching prospect of all time. Manny Banuelos only gets the hype he gets because he's a Yankee. Similar to the hype Jesus Montero got .
Banuelos was hyped because he was a 20-year old left-handed pitcher in Double-A with a mid-90s fastball, a plus change and an above average curveball. Not because he is a Yankees prospect. But sure, whatever fits the narrative, right.

Funny that you mention the Montero hype. It's precious to blame hype when prospect after prospect reaches the Mariners and suddenly forget how to hit. Smoak, Ackley, Montero... Maybe it's time to be a tad more self-critical about how poor your team is in developing hitters?
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:12 PM   #84
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How does Banuelos' level of hype matter? He had an innings limit and got hurt anyway. Just like could happen to Strasburg.
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:42 PM   #85
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Banuelos was hyped because he was a 20-year old left-handed pitcher in Double-A with a mid-90s fastball, a plus change and an above average curveball. Not because he is a Yankees prospect. But sure, whatever fits the narrative, right.
A guy who was walking almost 5 an inning in AA and striking out less than 9. There were guys who are not Yankees putting up much, much better numbers and being rated lower.

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Funny that you mention the Montero hype. It's precious to blame hype when prospect after prospect reaches the Mariners and suddenly forget how to hit. Smoak, Ackley, Montero... Maybe it's time to be a tad more self-critical about how poor your team is in developing hitters?
Montero's numbers got worse in AAA from 2010 to 2011 across the board. Ruh-roh. Maybe he's just not as good as everyone thought, despite still getting top 10 ratings. Maybe he just had a hot two weeks with the Yankees in an extreme hitters park and then moved to an extreme pitcher's park and got bitten in the ass. Maybe he was rated highly because people would think "hey, maybe he'll be a catcher!" or "hey, maybe he won't look like he's wearing thigh-high compression socks when he runs!" And maybe Ackley had bone-spurs in his plant-foot all throughout 2012 and didn't tell anyone. Maybe you need your legs to hit. And maybe Smoak has been overrated since the draft and never really proved much of anything even in his minor league time besides the fact that he can walk.

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How does Banuelos' level of hype matter? He had an innings limit and got hurt anyway. Just like could happen to Strasburg.
Right, but did Manny Banuelos have a Tommy John surgery which prompted an innings limit? Guys who've been hurt in the past need to be handled with care or they will not pitch to their 30th birthday.
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:45 PM   #86
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But he is just as likely to get hurt next season. He's still going to be pitching baseballs. He is injury prone whether he pitched the last month or not.
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:48 PM   #87
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But he is just as likely to get hurt next season. He's still going to be pitching baseballs. He is injury prone whether he pitched the last month or not.
Yes, but see, less so if he is also on an innings limit next year as well. Felix Hernandez was on an innings limit his first 3.5 seasons. Pitchers keep building strength and endurance. They get bigger and stronger over time. Durability. Especially those coming back from major surgeries.
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:57 PM   #88
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A guy who was walking almost 5 an inning in AA and striking out less than 9. There were guys who are not Yankees putting up much, much better numbers and being rated lower.

Montero's numbers got worse in AAA from 2010 to 2011 across the board. Ruh-roh. Maybe he's just not as good as everyone thought, despite still getting top 10 ratings.
You are scouting the box score. But sure, if you feel that every relevant publication out there has a pro-Yankees bias, good for you.
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:13 PM   #89
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You are scouting the box score. But sure, if you feel that every relevant publication out there has a pro-Yankees bias, good for you.
On Banuelos:

Prior to 2012 from John Sickels.

"Manny Banuelos, LHP, Grade B: Borderline B+. He got a B last year and I can't bump his grade up a notch given the command difficulties he had in Double-A. He's still a fine prospect, however, projecting as a number three starter if all goes well."

KLaw ranked him #23.

So a number 3 starter if all goes well is a top 23 prospect these days? The entire league must be getting worse across the board. A top 23 guy who grades as a B?


On Montero: the proof is in the numbers. How much time did he spend developing in the Mariners organization before the season began? A month? I guess a month is enough to undo years of good, isn't it.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:35 PM   #90
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I'm heading over to Yankee Stadium to take a sledgehammer to the PA system on account of that annoying strikeout whistle. Who's with me?
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