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Old 11-30-2012, 02:20 PM   #301
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Yeah, I'm not sure what the thought process was there.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:53 PM   #302
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Well, they know Hanson's medicals better than anyone. Look at his velocity decline over the past few years. Might as well get something while you can. Rotation depth is not exactly a problem for them.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:13 PM   #303
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Well, they know Hanson's medicals better than anyone. Look at his velocity decline over the past few years. Might as well get something while you can. Rotation depth is not exactly a problem for them.
True. But even with the velocity decline, I'm surprised they couldn't get better than Walden.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:42 PM   #304
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Yeah, I know they're getting something while they can but that still doesn't explain the mediocre return. Hanson is still serviceable in the now tense.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:32 PM   #305
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I'm ready for some more big trades or signings. Winter meetings start tomorrow, so it should start soon!
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:35 PM   #306
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Was just saying the same thing to our friend Pimperor. Ready for that stove to heat up even more.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:42 PM   #307
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I'm just imagining you whispering that into his ear, the baseball equivalent of sweet nothings, while chainsawing some locust horde....
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:47 PM   #308
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I like that dude and love his story, but some fool team is really going to overpay him, and pay him for too long. Yanks could be one of them, who the fuck knows.
I'm terrified of the Phillies giving another huge, much-too-long contract to a guy in his 30s. It's almost a yearly ritual at this point.

When I have an office, the dart board will be a photocopy of Ryan Howard's extension. And the urinal cakes in the bathroom will be Cliff Lee's contract.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:50 PM   #309
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When I have an office, the dart board will be a photocopy of Ryan Howard's extension. And the urinal cakes in the bathroom will be Cliff Lee's contract.
Why do you have a problem with the Lee contract? He's put up really good numbers for the first two years of his deal. With WAR/$ inflation that's going to happen when all the tv deal money floods the MLB, his contract won't look bad at all if he continues to pitch as he did last year.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:54 PM   #310
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Have to agree, the Lee deal was and remains a good one in my opinion. Howard, yeah, disastrous and that's not even hindsight.

Tourist, that made me laugh. Everyone is making me laugh.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:00 PM   #311
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Because the Phils didn't need to throw $120 million more at the rotation. They needed to spend money at other positions of much greater need. It was purely a reactionary move in response to heavy criticism of the original trade to send him to Seattle. And it's certainly an interesting argument to make: how would the Phillies have fared against San Francisco in 2010 with Lee in his final year in a rotation with Halladay, Hamels and Oswalt? To make up for it, Amaro threw entirely too much money at Lee to have the temporary satisfaction of fans loving him. It's hamstringing the team just as the Howard deal did. He makes almost $30 million in the last year of the deal (!!!). He and Howard are everything that's wrong with Amaro's tenure. You can only make so many of those big deals if you're going to establish a self-cap (which they did, which is why we had to drudge through the first three months of last season watching a hybrid of the Phillies and the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs).

I'm sure it's going to cost the Phillies the ability to re-sign Chase Utley after this season, which is depressing as hell. He's my favorite player ever. The fact that he's not going to get to finish his career with the Phillies but Howard and Rollins probably will kills me.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:02 PM   #312
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Yeah, guess we'll agree to disagree, I don't agree with your perspective or analysis at all.

And Utley aint what he used to be, as you need not be told.

I cannot wait to see if the Yanks pursue AJ or if they go with their internal cats. Or Napoli, I guess but I don't see that happening.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:04 PM   #313
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He's certainly not, but neither is Howard or Rollins. The guy who should be aging with the team is Utley, not them. This is almost totally irrational, I know.

Fire Charlie Manuel, too.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:05 PM   #314
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Because the Phils didn't need to throw $120 million more at the rotation. They needed to spend money at other positions of much greater need. It was purely a reactionary move in response to heavy criticism of the original trade to send him to Seattle. And it's certainly an interesting argument to make: how would the Phillies have fared against San Francisco in 2010 with Lee in his final year in a rotation with Halladay, Hamels and Oswalt? To make up for it, Amaro threw entirely too much money at Lee to have the temporary satisfaction of fans loving him. It's hamstringing the team just as the Howard deal did. He makes almost $30 million in the last year of the deal (!!!). He and Howard are everything that's wrong with Amaro's tenure. You can only make so many of those big deals if you're going to establish a self-cap (which they did, which is why we had to drudge through the first three months of last season watching a hybrid of the Phillies and the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs).

I'm sure it's going to cost the Phillies the ability to re-sign Chase Utley after this season, which is depressing as hell. He's my favorite player ever. The fact that he's not going to get to finish his career with the Phillies but Howard and Rollins probably will kills me.
I'm sure there are many teams who would gladly take Lee, contract and all, off of the Phillies' hands. Howard, not so much. And about Utley, I'll be surprised if he ends up on another NL team besides the Phillies. He seems like a guy who could benefit from playing DH a couple times a week.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:12 PM   #315
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Cliff Lee Contract
2013 (age 34) - $25 million
2014 (age 35) - $25 million
2015 (age 36) - $25 million
2016 (age 37) - $27.5 million with a $12.5 million buyout

The only team willing to take on that contract was the Los Angeles Dodgers (owners of that TV deal), and they won't give up any players in a trade to do it.
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