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If the Red Sox signed CC, Sox fans would sing a different tune, GAF. That's just how it works. If we sign Lowe, it'll be a mistake, but if they do, great move. It works in reverse as well, of course. CC might not work out for the length of his deal, but anyone that feels like he will not pitch well the next few years is kidding himself.

Actually, with the opt-out clause, the contract is more like 3/69MM with a player option for 4/92MM. Ostensibly CC asked for the opt-out clause "in case he doesn't like New York", but what's going to happen is that if he pitches well for the first 3 years and the economy recovers, he'll opt out and get an even bigger contract. If he sucks/gets injured/etc., he'll just shut his trap and collect the rest of the $92 million.

The initial 3-year contract is fine. The full 7-year contract could hurt towards the end though, and giving up the player option makes it worse.
 
CC a Yankee?.....The official results from the 2009 AL Championship Series are already in. The Red Sox just won games 1 and 5.
 
The only question with CC will be how he handles the spotlight of NYC and the media...a tad different than Cleveland and Milwaukee.

A few players have had their issues when they jumped to the Yanks, Mets or Red Sox, see examples like Kevin Brown, Jeff Suppan, Edgar Renteria and others.

I think Sabathia will be fine, but one never knows until he gets there.
 
This move is like plugging a pipe at both ends when the leak is in the middle. The Mets still need to get from their starters to Rodriguez, and that is where their biggest problem was last year.

I'd much rather have Lidge than Rodriguez.

if baseball games were 8 innings long the mets would have won the NL East by 8+ games.

the inability to have a solid 9th inning made the 6th through 8th worse, because the bullpen had to be stretched and used in ways that it wasn't prepared to be used in. as a phillies "fan" you should know this... lidge's success this year made the entire bullpen better.

now the mets have added putz as well, so they've solidified the 8th and the 9th innings... which means feliciano can be a specialist again, etc. etc. everyone else can just pitch their role instead of being asked to do something they're not set out to do.

lidge had a great season last year... there's no denying that. only someone who is idiotic and impartial could say that he didn't. but to say that you'd MUCH rather have lidge than rodriguez (and putz), like it's no contest? please... considering lidge's history prior to coming to philadelphia, he's still one blown save away from a complete mitch williams style meltdown.
 
Don't I recall you stating in the spring Putz was the premier closer in the game?

If I were a Mets fan I'd be worried about this move.

why?

the mariners got a lot back in return for putz... carp could be a 30 homerun first baseman... he's very similar to mike jacobs but with less strikeouts. and they got gutierez from cleveland in the deal as well, who is someone they coveted. the mariners are cutting costs and trying to rebuild after their dreadful season.

was putz the "premier closer in the game?" no.. that was just silly talk. i believe the same person who said that said the mariners were "one bat away from a division title." but putz was/is a top 10 closer in the league, with a fastball in the high 90's.

at the very least he's a serious upgrade over aaron heilman, and that alone makes the move well worth it.
 
If the Red Sox signed CC, Sox fans would sing a different tune, GAF. That's just how it works. If we sign Lowe, it'll be a mistake, but if they do, great move. It works in reverse as well, of course. CC might not work out for the length of his deal, but anyone that feels like he will not pitch well the next few years is kidding himself.

Nice try, but I'd think the same thing if the Sox had signed him. Is he ok in the regular season? Sure. Is he ok in the playoffs? Hell no. He's the A-Rod of pitching.

I've never been high on Sabathia.

Now if the Yankees sign Lowe, I'd consider that a good move.
 
If the Red Sox signed CC, Sox fans would sing a different tune, GAF. That's just how it works. If we sign Lowe, it'll be a mistake, but if they do, great move. It works in reverse as well, of course. CC might not work out for the length of his deal, but anyone that feels like he will not pitch well the next few years is kidding himself.

Did I just read that the Mets traded for JJ Putz? Wow, they're not fucking around with the 'pen.

11-10 4.12
15-10 4.03
12-11 3.22
19-7 3.21
6-8 3.83

those are the last 5 seasons in the AL for C.C. Sabathia. That warranted making him the highest paid pitcher in baseball history?

i think it's a good move for the yankees and one that they had to make... that said, they paid waaaaay too much for him, and he's far more valuable in the NL than in the AL.

even if Sabathia wins 20 games next year... all they did was replace Mussina's 20 wins with Sabathia's 20 wins at twice the price.

it could turn out to be a great great great move for the yankees if he pitches like he did in milwaukee. but there has to be some question marks about giving that much money to an overweight pitcher who obviously didn't want to be in New York, so much so that he made sure to get an early opt-out clause in his contract.

i'd say it's likely that he'll be great, but it's not out of the question that it could turn into a kevin brown type of signing.

still... what's the yankee rotation right now?
1. sabathia
2. wong
3. hughes??
4. guidry???

they've got a ton of holes to fill in yet before they can be good.

they apparently traded melkey for cameron... terrible move for them. another all or nothing guy... homerun or strikeout with a mid 200's tops batting average. great fielder, though.
 
I just had a mood swing so great that it made me wonder if I am not manic depressive. I was really excited that the Tigers traded for Edwin Jackson until it dawned on me that the very fact that I am excited about acquiring Edwin Jackson shows how fucked up our rotation is at this moment.

Starting Rotation
1. Justin Verlander
2. Jeremy Bonderman
3. Armando Gallaraga
4. Edwin Jackson
5. Nate Robertson?

Bullpen
1. 2008 New York Mets
 
it could turn out to be a great great great move for the yankees if he pitches like he did in milwaukee. .

No way he pitches that well in the AL, especially the AL East.
The numbers he put up in a half season in Seligtown were remarkable and earned him his big payday, but lets not forget his 17 NL starts included 3 against the Murderer's Row Reds, 3 against the Gashouse Gang Pirates, 2 against the Wallbanger Padres and a shutout against the thumping NAtionals...he isn't posting a 1.65 ERA when he has to face the Red Sox, Devil Rays, and the rest of the AL.

He'll be good, but I think like you said, he'll basically replace Mussina's 2008 numbers, not exceed them.
 
the more i think of it the more the sabathia signing has kevin brown written all over it.

i mean if they were talking about roy halladay or roy oswalt? absolutely... i'd throw that kinda cash at him in a heart beat. if doc halladay can get himself to the national league this season or next he'll be a near lock to win 20+ games each year, win multiple cy youngs and get himself into cooperstown.
 
Don't I recall you stating in the spring Putz was the premier closer in the game?

If I were a Mets fan I'd be worried about this move.

In 2007 he was. Injuries, oddly enough, make players worse. Who would've thought? :shrug:

why?
was putz the "premier closer in the game?" no.. that was just silly talk. i believe the same person who said that said the mariners were "one bat away from a division title." but putz was/is a top 10 closer in the league, with a fastball in the high 90's.

This is true, by the way. If the Mariners had remained healthy, and if they hadn't lost as many one-run games (i.e. had one more big bat/35 homerun hitter), they'd have at least been closer.

The again, I'm kinda glad last year was such a complete meltdown. It meant the killing off of Bill Bavasi (the worst GM in the league). And a lot of young players got a chance (like Brandon Morrow). Both of those things just mean we'll be better going forward. :shrug: At least, y'know, barring the injury of EVERY FUCKING STARTING PITCHER on the team and the closer (y'know, like last year).
 
:



This is true, by the way. If the Mariners had remained healthy, and if they hadn't lost as many one-run games (i.e. had one more big bat/35 homerun hitter), they'd have at least been closer.

.

Dude, they finished 39 friggin games out...Ruth and Gehrig couldn't have gotten them the division.
 
Dude, they finished 39 friggin games out...Ruth and Gehrig couldn't have gotten them the division.

:rolleyes:

If their pitching staff would've been healthy, Teixeira might've. But I forgot--interference doesn't take injury into account. I wonder how well a team like Boston would do if they lost their #1 for 60% of the season (and he was playing injured for the other 40%), their #2 for 6 weeks for getting spiked at a play at the plate, their #3 (for a few weeks, though playing through back injuries all season), their #5 (who pitched through injuries all season which made his mechanics all fucked up), and their closer (for half the season, playing injured for half the remainder). Oh, and they were 18 and 30 in one-run games. With one extra bat, how many of those 30 would've been added to that 18? With a Teixeira, probably 10-15.... Add those 10-15 to another 10-15 that the 'pen blew (being closerless).... add those 20-30 to the 10-15 lost due to injured staring pitching.... Suddenly one big bat and a multitude of injury change everything.
 
Lets see, the Red Sox lost their #1, Beckett for a bit at the end of the season, lost their #2 Schilling, for 100% of the season, and traded away the best hitter in baseball halfway through the season. Also lost Ortiz for a third of the season, and he was never quite right after returning, lost JD Drew for a third of the season and same for Mike Lowell, yet missed the World Series by a game.

Good teams overcome injuries, the Mariners were not a good team, even 100% healthy they don't sniff the Angels.
 
they apparently traded melkey for cameron... terrible move for them. another all or nothing guy... homerun or strikeout with a mid 200's tops batting average. great fielder, though.

That trade didn't occur. The Yanks didn't want to lose Melky AND have to pay Cameron's salary. I definitely agree with you. The Yanks shouldn't get Cameron. They can't afford to get another guy in his mid 30's to play the outfield.
 
With one extra bat, how many of those 30 would've been added to that 18? With a Teixeira, probably 10-15.... Add those 10-15 to another 10-15 that the 'pen blew (being closerless).... add those 20-30 to the 10-15 lost due to injured staring pitching.... Suddenly one big bat and a multitude of injury change everything.

So are you saying that without the injuries they would've won about 150-162 games?
 
Nice try, but I'd think the same thing if the Sox had signed him. Is he ok in the regular season? Sure. Is he ok in the playoffs? Hell no. He's the A-Rod of pitching.

I've never been high on Sabathia.

Now if the Yankees sign Lowe, I'd consider that a good move.

It wasn't a "try", I just knew that you guys would question the signing. I also do not believe that if the Sox signed him that you'd be quite as negative, that's human nature, sorry. Of all the Red Sox fans I know, you guys are easily the least obnoxious/most objective, I'll give you that.

If teams only signed guys with amazing post-season track records, there'd be few signings. Getting to the post-season is more important to me than the crapshoot that is the actual playoffs.

My biggest worry, and to me the only legit worry cited here, is how he deals with the spotlight of NYC, which is a major question mark for everyone that the Mets or Yanks trade for or sign. I heard so much talk about him wanting to play at home and needing to be convinced to play in The Bronx that I worry if he wants to wear pinstripes, or if he just wants that paycheck. We'll see.

As for Putz, if I'm a Mets fan I'm ecstatic. Bottom line is that the Mets pen sucked, and they immediately addressed the situation about as well as could be expected.
 
11-10 4.12
15-10 4.03
12-11 3.22
19-7 3.21
6-8 3.83

those are the last 5 seasons in the AL for C.C. Sabathia. That warranted making him the highest paid pitcher in baseball history?

i think it's a good move for the yankees and one that they had to make... that said, they paid waaaaay too much for him, and he's far more valuable in the NL than in the AL.

even if Sabathia wins 20 games next year... all they did was replace Mussina's 20 wins with Sabathia's 20 wins at twice the price.

it could turn out to be a great great great move for the yankees if he pitches like he did in milwaukee. but there has to be some question marks about giving that much money to an overweight pitcher who obviously didn't want to be in New York, so much so that he made sure to get an early opt-out clause in his contract.

i'd say it's likely that he'll be great, but it's not out of the question that it could turn into a kevin brown type of signing.

still... what's the yankee rotation right now?
1. sabathia
2. wong
3. hughes??
4. guidry???

they've got a ton of holes to fill in yet before they can be good.

they apparently traded melkey for cameron... terrible move for them. another all or nothing guy... homerun or strikeout with a mid 200's tops batting average. great fielder, though.

I don't recall saying that the signing was amazing, nor did I say that the $$$ was proper. Also do not recall saying that they're an amazing team right now. Not sure where you're getting that from.

Though, anyone that thinks that the Yankees did not just upgrade the shit out of their pitching rotation for the immediate future has credibility issues.

You can replace Guidry with Joba.

Lastly, this is a team that, despite all the crap that went down last season, won 89 games in a horribly competitive division. I'm not claiming that they're back in the playoffs, but to pretend like they're not a factor would be silly.

Melky for Cameron would be horrid for the Yanks, agreed.
 
I bet he'd like to.
He claimed he wanted to stay in the NL, largely because he enjoys batting. But of course money talks.

Sadly, it's true. I should add that I truly wanted CC to stay in Milwaukee, thought it would be good for baseball. Sadly, the $$$ won out, even if the $$$ is tossed around by the team I root for. It does get tiring, though, the 2002 and beyond Yankee approach. If they deal Cano on top of dealing Melky I'll lose my shit.
 
why oh why must Red Sox ownership jump on the 1000 different uniforms bandwagon?

8_mdc__1229042588_2520.jpg


and the new road unis look like a much uglier version of the 80's road unis.

5-ap_uni__1229042255_4672.jpg


I guess I'm just a traditionalist old fart.
 
It wasn't a "try", I just knew that you guys would question the signing. I also do not believe that if the Sox signed him that you'd be quite as negative, that's human nature, sorry. Of all the Red Sox fans I know, you guys are easily the least obnoxious/most objective, I'll give you that.

If teams only signed guys with amazing post-season track records, there'd be few signings. Getting to the post-season is more important to me than the crapshoot that is the actual playoffs.

My biggest worry, and to me the only legit worry cited here, is how he deals with the spotlight of NYC, which is a major question mark for everyone that the Mets or Yanks trade for or sign. I heard so much talk about him wanting to play at home and needing to be convinced to play in The Bronx that I worry if he wants to wear pinstripes, or if he just wants that paycheck. We'll see.

As for Putz, if I'm a Mets fan I'm ecstatic. Bottom line is that the Mets pen sucked, and they immediately addressed the situation about as well as could be expected.

Trust me, I'd be just as worried if it had been the Sox who signed him, and just as negative. If tomorrow the Red Sox signed A.J. Burnett, I'd be pissed, too. He's not worth it due to all the injuries he gets.

So actually, I guess I'm pleased that Sabathia went to the Yankees, because I think he chokes in some fashion.
 
Apparently Manny is sufficiently underwhelmed by the market for his services that he is considering retirement.

I rather doubt it, but it would be so hilarious to see Scott Boras not earn a dime for his services.
 
I don't recall saying that the signing was amazing, nor did I say that the $$$ was proper. Also do not recall saying that they're an amazing team right now. Not sure where you're getting that from.

well i read your post right after listening to a commercial on espn radio that had douche-o-rama max kellerman saying that sabathia is the best lefty in all of baseball because santana has fallen off... so there's that.
 
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