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Old 12-11-2008, 02:33 PM   #106
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Don't I recall you stating in the spring Putz was the premier closer in the game?

If I were a Mets fan I'd be worried about this move.
In 2007 he was. Injuries, oddly enough, make players worse. Who would've thought?

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why?
was putz the "premier closer in the game?" no.. that was just silly talk. i believe the same person who said that said the mariners were "one bat away from a division title." but putz was/is a top 10 closer in the league, with a fastball in the high 90's.
This is true, by the way. If the Mariners had remained healthy, and if they hadn't lost as many one-run games (i.e. had one more big bat/35 homerun hitter), they'd have at least been closer.

The again, I'm kinda glad last year was such a complete meltdown. It meant the killing off of Bill Bavasi (the worst GM in the league). And a lot of young players got a chance (like Brandon Morrow). Both of those things just mean we'll be better going forward. At least, y'know, barring the injury of EVERY FUCKING STARTING PITCHER on the team and the closer (y'know, like last year).
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Old 12-11-2008, 02:49 PM   #107
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This is true, by the way. If the Mariners had remained healthy, and if they hadn't lost as many one-run games (i.e. had one more big bat/35 homerun hitter), they'd have at least been closer.

.
Dude, they finished 39 friggin games out...Ruth and Gehrig couldn't have gotten them the division.
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:00 PM   #108
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Dude, they finished 39 friggin games out...Ruth and Gehrig couldn't have gotten them the division.


If their pitching staff would've been healthy, Teixeira might've. But I forgot--interference doesn't take injury into account. I wonder how well a team like Boston would do if they lost their #1 for 60% of the season (and he was playing injured for the other 40%), their #2 for 6 weeks for getting spiked at a play at the plate, their #3 (for a few weeks, though playing through back injuries all season), their #5 (who pitched through injuries all season which made his mechanics all fucked up), and their closer (for half the season, playing injured for half the remainder). Oh, and they were 18 and 30 in one-run games. With one extra bat, how many of those 30 would've been added to that 18? With a Teixeira, probably 10-15.... Add those 10-15 to another 10-15 that the 'pen blew (being closerless).... add those 20-30 to the 10-15 lost due to injured staring pitching.... Suddenly one big bat and a multitude of injury change everything.
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:30 PM   #109
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Lets see, the Red Sox lost their #1, Beckett for a bit at the end of the season, lost their #2 Schilling, for 100% of the season, and traded away the best hitter in baseball halfway through the season. Also lost Ortiz for a third of the season, and he was never quite right after returning, lost JD Drew for a third of the season and same for Mike Lowell, yet missed the World Series by a game.

Good teams overcome injuries, the Mariners were not a good team, even 100% healthy they don't sniff the Angels.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:38 PM   #110
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they apparently traded melkey for cameron... terrible move for them. another all or nothing guy... homerun or strikeout with a mid 200's tops batting average. great fielder, though.
That trade didn't occur. The Yanks didn't want to lose Melky AND have to pay Cameron's salary. I definitely agree with you. The Yanks shouldn't get Cameron. They can't afford to get another guy in his mid 30's to play the outfield.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:45 PM   #111
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With one extra bat, how many of those 30 would've been added to that 18? With a Teixeira, probably 10-15.... Add those 10-15 to another 10-15 that the 'pen blew (being closerless).... add those 20-30 to the 10-15 lost due to injured staring pitching.... Suddenly one big bat and a multitude of injury change everything.
So are you saying that without the injuries they would've won about 150-162 games?
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:33 PM   #112
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No more Heilman nightmares !!

adios !
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:55 PM   #113
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No more Heilman nightmares !!

adios !


Mets making some good moves so far.
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:01 PM   #114
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Nice try, but I'd think the same thing if the Sox had signed him. Is he ok in the regular season? Sure. Is he ok in the playoffs? Hell no. He's the A-Rod of pitching.

I've never been high on Sabathia.

Now if the Yankees sign Lowe, I'd consider that a good move.
It wasn't a "try", I just knew that you guys would question the signing. I also do not believe that if the Sox signed him that you'd be quite as negative, that's human nature, sorry. Of all the Red Sox fans I know, you guys are easily the least obnoxious/most objective, I'll give you that.

If teams only signed guys with amazing post-season track records, there'd be few signings. Getting to the post-season is more important to me than the crapshoot that is the actual playoffs.

My biggest worry, and to me the only legit worry cited here, is how he deals with the spotlight of NYC, which is a major question mark for everyone that the Mets or Yanks trade for or sign. I heard so much talk about him wanting to play at home and needing to be convinced to play in The Bronx that I worry if he wants to wear pinstripes, or if he just wants that paycheck. We'll see.

As for Putz, if I'm a Mets fan I'm ecstatic. Bottom line is that the Mets pen sucked, and they immediately addressed the situation about as well as could be expected.
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:04 PM   #115
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11-10 4.12
15-10 4.03
12-11 3.22
19-7 3.21
6-8 3.83

those are the last 5 seasons in the AL for C.C. Sabathia. That warranted making him the highest paid pitcher in baseball history?

i think it's a good move for the yankees and one that they had to make... that said, they paid waaaaay too much for him, and he's far more valuable in the NL than in the AL.

even if Sabathia wins 20 games next year... all they did was replace Mussina's 20 wins with Sabathia's 20 wins at twice the price.

it could turn out to be a great great great move for the yankees if he pitches like he did in milwaukee. but there has to be some question marks about giving that much money to an overweight pitcher who obviously didn't want to be in New York, so much so that he made sure to get an early opt-out clause in his contract.

i'd say it's likely that he'll be great, but it's not out of the question that it could turn into a kevin brown type of signing.

still... what's the yankee rotation right now?
1. sabathia
2. wong
3. hughes??
4. guidry???

they've got a ton of holes to fill in yet before they can be good.

they apparently traded melkey for cameron... terrible move for them. another all or nothing guy... homerun or strikeout with a mid 200's tops batting average. great fielder, though.
I don't recall saying that the signing was amazing, nor did I say that the $$$ was proper. Also do not recall saying that they're an amazing team right now. Not sure where you're getting that from.

Though, anyone that thinks that the Yankees did not just upgrade the shit out of their pitching rotation for the immediate future has credibility issues.

You can replace Guidry with Joba.

Lastly, this is a team that, despite all the crap that went down last season, won 89 games in a horribly competitive division. I'm not claiming that they're back in the playoffs, but to pretend like they're not a factor would be silly.

Melky for Cameron would be horrid for the Yanks, agreed.
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:06 PM   #116
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I bet he'd like to.
He claimed he wanted to stay in the NL, largely because he enjoys batting. But of course money talks.
Sadly, it's true. I should add that I truly wanted CC to stay in Milwaukee, thought it would be good for baseball. Sadly, the $$$ won out, even if the $$$ is tossed around by the team I root for. It does get tiring, though, the 2002 and beyond Yankee approach. If they deal Cano on top of dealing Melky I'll lose my shit.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:10 PM   #117
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why oh why must Red Sox ownership jump on the 1000 different uniforms bandwagon?



and the new road unis look like a much uglier version of the 80's road unis.



I guess I'm just a traditionalist old fart.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:44 PM   #118
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It wasn't a "try", I just knew that you guys would question the signing. I also do not believe that if the Sox signed him that you'd be quite as negative, that's human nature, sorry. Of all the Red Sox fans I know, you guys are easily the least obnoxious/most objective, I'll give you that.

If teams only signed guys with amazing post-season track records, there'd be few signings. Getting to the post-season is more important to me than the crapshoot that is the actual playoffs.

My biggest worry, and to me the only legit worry cited here, is how he deals with the spotlight of NYC, which is a major question mark for everyone that the Mets or Yanks trade for or sign. I heard so much talk about him wanting to play at home and needing to be convinced to play in The Bronx that I worry if he wants to wear pinstripes, or if he just wants that paycheck. We'll see.

As for Putz, if I'm a Mets fan I'm ecstatic. Bottom line is that the Mets pen sucked, and they immediately addressed the situation about as well as could be expected.
Trust me, I'd be just as worried if it had been the Sox who signed him, and just as negative. If tomorrow the Red Sox signed A.J. Burnett, I'd be pissed, too. He's not worth it due to all the injuries he gets.

So actually, I guess I'm pleased that Sabathia went to the Yankees, because I think he chokes in some fashion.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:53 PM   #119
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Apparently Manny is sufficiently underwhelmed by the market for his services that he is considering retirement.

I rather doubt it, but it would be so hilarious to see Scott Boras not earn a dime for his services.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:55 PM   #120
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I don't recall saying that the signing was amazing, nor did I say that the $$$ was proper. Also do not recall saying that they're an amazing team right now. Not sure where you're getting that from.
well i read your post right after listening to a commercial on espn radio that had douche-o-rama max kellerman saying that sabathia is the best lefty in all of baseball because santana has fallen off... so there's that.
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