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Old 01-01-2018, 01:28 PM   #316
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It was a backhanded compliment.


It was a British response
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Old 01-01-2018, 05:40 PM   #317
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This is the moment I stopped going to Subway forever...
That should be reason to go, not stay away.

Rubber free bread for everyone!
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:39 PM   #318
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Chipper Jones, Trevor Hoffman, Vladimir Guerrero, and Jim Thome...

... Cooperstown awaits.


Another year of no Bonds and Clemens. 2 of the most elite players in the history of the game. Never failed a test. Never a fan of them, although Clemens spent several seasons in the Bronx, both of them kinda seemed like assholes. Regardless of substances allegedly utilized, one still has to hit or throw the ball well to succeed. And they did both with a greatness that can only be punctuated with a Hall of Fame induction.
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Old 01-25-2018, 06:29 AM   #319
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That Bonds isn't a hall of famer is an obscene joke
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:06 AM   #320
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That Bonds isn't a hall of famer is an obscene joke
Same thing for Clemens,

You've got obvious juicers like Bagwell, Pudge Rodriguez, Piazza, Griffey Jr. and Biggio in there, Bonds & Clemens are far more deserving than any of them.
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:00 AM   #321
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Same thing for Clemens,



You've got obvious juicers like Bagwell, Pudge Rodriguez, Piazza, Griffey Jr. and Biggio in there, Bonds & Clemens are far more deserving than any of them.


Obvious juicers?

I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's fair to call someone whose speculation of juicing exists only by the fact that "everyone else was."
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:15 AM   #322
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it's hardly speculation... piazza and griffey both admitted it in the past, bagwell more or less did just last week, pudge was called out in canseco's book. the only one on that list that might rightly be called speculation is biggio.

bonds and clemens are assholes and PED users but so is ty cobb and nobody in their right mind would say he shouldn't be in the hall. like mr pryck said, you still have to hit or throw the ball well. if it was all steroids every meathead at the local gym who's wider than they are tall would be babe ruth.
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:27 AM   #323
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When did they admit this in the past?
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:29 PM   #324
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I go back and forth with this. I am a huge lifelong Cubs fan who was enraptured with Sammy Sosa for all those glorious years. The 1998 home run duel with McGuire was legendary. But it's all tainted.

On the flipside, how far do we go? Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb played in a era when half the population of the greatest players were not allowed to play. Ruth not having to face Satchel Paige and others? His numbers may have been different too. But we'll never know. But we don't keep them out of the Hall for it.

So I don't know, I'm kinda torn. I HATE Barry Bonds and his incredibly growing head! But I don't know.
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Old 01-25-2018, 01:23 PM   #325
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When did they admit this in the past?
piazza: BASEBALL; Steroid Use Becomes a Topic of Discussion in Clubhouses - The New York Times

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Piazza has said he briefly used androstenedione early in his career, stopping when he did not see a drastic change in his muscle mass. He said he had never used steroids because ''I hit the ball as far in high school as I do now.''
griffey i may be mistaken on, there are several questionable sites that say he admitted back in 2009 to taking them when healing from injuries but i can't find a legitimate source for it so i'll take that one back.

bagwell was asked about other PED users and about the suspicions around him, and he danced around the subject and refused to deny it. pretty sus if you ask me. Jeff Bagwell dances around PED issue after being voted into Hall - NY Daily News

in any case i do think all these players, plus bonds and clemens, should absolutely be in the hall of fame, and it's utterly ridiculous and hypocritical to keep them out over some convoluted sense of ethics or morality, but to vote in other known users of various substances through the years.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:24 PM   #326
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Well I think they should all be in the HoF too. My initial comment was referring to just KGJr though, but even in the case of Piazza, if you're talking about guys with clean track records who have never tested positive and never shown up on any credible reports, even if the writing is on the wall and they might be guilty, I don't see how it's fair to call them "obvious juicers." Even in the case of Piazza with that quote.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:34 PM   #327
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he freely admitted to the new york times to taking andro for the express purpose of enhancing his performance. i'm not sure how much more obvious it gets than that.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:42 PM   #328
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he freely admitted to the new york times to taking andro for the express purpose of enhancing his performance. i'm not sure how much more obvious it gets than that.


Ambiguously early in his career (when?) for an ambiguously short period of time.
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Old 01-25-2018, 04:07 PM   #329
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This is the first I've ever heard of Griffey being a "confirmed" steroid/PED user. I always thought it was common knowledge that he was clean.
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Old 01-25-2018, 05:08 PM   #330
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I've never heard of Junior being linked to PED's either.
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