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Old 08-23-2012, 11:16 PM   #16
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Armstrong likely to be stripped of Tour titles - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

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There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense.
I had hoped that a federal court would stop USADA’s charade. Although the court was sympathetic to my concerns and recognized the many improprieties and deficiencies in USADA’s motives, its conduct, and its process, the court ultimately decided that it could not intervene.
If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA’s process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and – once and for all – put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance. But I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair. Regardless of what Travis Tygart says, there is zero physical evidence to support his outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?
Lance Armstrong
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:19 PM   #17
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Even if he did dope the way he has been treated is pretty disgusting if you ask me.

Here's a bloke who fought back from testicular cancer that metastasised to his brain and lungs, lost a ball, to win one of the world's toughest sporting events seven years in a row, a bloke who has his own charity organisation.

There will be plenty who say this "proves" he doped, and maybe I just have too much faith in people, but geez a bit of respect wouldn't go astray.
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Old 08-24-2012, 03:46 AM   #18
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As if the people who came second didn't dope as well. The whole cycling world should stop focusing on the past and just try to make the sport as clean as possible.

http://www.theradsport.com/the-dopin...nce-victories/
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:12 AM   #19
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Well yeah exactly. If you're gonna strip Armstrong how far down in the field do you go for the winner? Farce
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:35 AM   #20
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Even if he did dope the way he has been treated is pretty disgusting if you ask me.

Here's a bloke who fought back from testicular cancer that metastasised to his brain and lungs, lost a ball, to win one of the world's toughest sporting events seven years in a row, a bloke who has his own charity organisation.

There will be plenty who say this "proves" he doped, and maybe I just have too much faith in people, but geez a bit of respect wouldn't go astray.
I have so much respect for him as far as fighting back from the cancer. I read his book, I was in awe of him. But if you dope you dope, and he doesn't deserve any special treatment in that respect because of the cancer and his charity work. Honestly I don't get someone who has been through cancer and survived putting anything like that into their body for any reason.

I'm not some naive sports fan, at this point I've seen it all and become so cynical. Especially the last couple of years. But the whole doping/steroids thing still gets to me on a gut level. At this point you start to wonder if everyone in sports, after a certain decade or whatever, is doing it. As long as there are still ways around testing. Doesn't mean I think people should go around accusing anyone and everyone of doing it, without any proper evidence.
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Old 08-24-2012, 12:56 PM   #21
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The entire "steroid" era of sports is a giant crock of shit anyways... firstly, most of the people caught using "steroids" never actually used steroids. HGH is not a steroid.

Second... most of these things that people are being banned for... HGH, testosterone, etc... are things that doctors are readily prescribing more and more to the average joe... and in a decades time we'll all look pretty silly for being outraged over these things.

Third... there's situational morality in the enforcement and accusations of PED abuse. The sports writers of the US get on their high horse over records being broken in baseball, and the "advantages" gained by PED abuse... yet ignore other sports all together. Football is rarely discussed regarding PED's... even though there's rampant use in the NFL. You never here a peep about soccer players or basketball players abusing PED's... but it's happening, in large numbers.

Everybody talks about Barry Bonds and how he HAD to be on Steroids because of how much bulk he gained and how his head size increased. Now of course, they were right.

But take a look sometime at some very famous basketball players... how skinny they were when they came into the league compared to how massive they've become today. Two of the biggest side effects of anabolic steroid abuse? Male pattern baldness and massive mood swings. If a baseball player doubled in size, a freak of nature the likes we've never seen, and was overly moody and lost his hairline... everybody would accuse him of being a juicer. If it's a basketball player, he'd be LeBron James.

But then there's the flip side... in today's day of advanced training, is it possible for an athlete to double in size in short order, and do so 100% cleanly? Yes, it is.
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:00 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
The entire "steroid" era of sports is a giant crock of shit anyways... firstly, most of the people caught using "steroids" never actually used steroids. HGH is not a steroid.

Second... most of these things that people are being banned for... HGH, testosterone, etc... are things that doctors are readily prescribing more and more to the average joe... and in a decades time we'll all look pretty silly for being outraged over these things.

Third... there's situational morality in the enforcement and accusations of PED abuse. The sports writers of the US get on their high horse over records being broken in baseball, and the "advantages" gained by PED abuse... yet ignore other sports all together. Football is rarely discussed regarding PED's... even though there's rampant use in the NFL. You never here a peep about soccer players or basketball players abusing PED's... but it's happening, in large numbers.

Everybody talks about Barry Bonds and how he HAD to be on Steroids because of how much bulk he gained and how his head size increased. Now of course, they were right.

But take a look sometime at some very famous basketball players... how skinny they were when they came into the league compared to how massive they've become today. Two of the biggest side effects of anabolic steroid abuse? Male pattern baldness and massive mood swings. If a baseball player doubled in size, a freak of nature the likes we've never seen, and was overly moody and lost his hairline... everybody would accuse him of being a juicer. If it's a basketball player, he'd be LeBron James.

But then there's the flip side... in today's day of advanced training, is it possible for an athlete to double in size in short order, and do so 100%cleanly? Yes, it is.
It's precisely this win at all costs mentality that is disfiguring sport.
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:35 PM   #23
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Well yeah exactly. If you're gonna strip Armstrong how far down in the field do you go for the winner? Farce
Yeah, take Riis for example. He even admitted that he took EPO but he didn't lose his Tour win of 1996. The same goes for Ullrich.
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:10 PM   #24
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It's precisely this win at all costs mentality that is disfiguring sport.
Bullshit.

People have cheated for a competitive advantage in all walks of life for the entire history of mankind. This is not new, and will not end with PED's.

Get off your moral high horse.
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:15 PM   #25
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Bullshit.

People have cheated for a competitive advantage in all walks of life for the entire history of mankind. This is not new, and will not end with PED's.

Get off your moral high horse.
Even if I took seriously arguments for legalising steroids (which I really don't for a minute, as they're usually ultimately derived from Randian Darwinist bullshit), the known health risks associated with PED's are enough, of themselves, to continue with the current policy of frequent testings and dealing harshly with cheats - usually in their own best interests in the long run. They may win less medals but will live longer and maybe be able to walk down the street and look their neighbours in the eye.

As for Armstrong, I had him pegged from day one. Bonds too - even though I know SFA about baseball.
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:32 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
The entire "steroid" era of sports is a giant crock of shit anyways... firstly, most of the people caught using "steroids" never actually used steroids. HGH is not a steroid.

Second... most of these things that people are being banned for... HGH, testosterone, etc... are things that doctors are readily prescribing more and more to the average joe... and in a decades time we'll all look pretty silly for being outraged over these things.
I don't disagree with this, but there is a lot of abuse, misuse, and fraudulent prescribing of HGH, testosterone, etc in professional sports. It's more like a 'softer' kind of PED abuse, if you will. And more often than not, the testosterone replacement therapy is only rectifying the damage done by years of other sorts of PED abuse. When you compare the percentage of athletes on TRT and the percentage of males in the general public in need of TRT, there's quite a discrepancy
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:36 PM   #27
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Third... there's situational morality in the enforcement and accusations of PED abuse. The sports writers of the US get on their high horse over records being broken in baseball, and the "advantages" gained by PED abuse... yet ignore other sports all together. Football is rarely discussed regarding PED's... even though there's rampant use in the NFL. You never here a peep about soccer players or basketball players abusing PED's... but it's happening, in large numbers.

Everybody talks about Barry Bonds and how he HAD to be on Steroids because of how much bulk he gained and how his head size increased. Now of course, they were right.

But take a look sometime at some very famous basketball players... how skinny they were when they came into the league compared to how massive they've become today. Two of the biggest side effects of anabolic steroid abuse? Male pattern baldness and massive mood swings. If a baseball player doubled in size, a freak of nature the likes we've never seen, and was overly moody and lost his hairline... everybody would accuse him of being a juicer. If it's a basketball player, he'd be LeBron James.
It was the blatant results of steroid abuse that brought attention to baseball. When you have a home run record stand for decades, then have 3 players surpass that record in a relatively short period of time, it's going to draw attention. No doubt there is abuse in other sports, but there doesn't seem to be that high water mark that's so obviously being trampled, so there isn't much talk about it. What professional team sports actually test for PEDs these days?
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:04 PM   #28
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training, nutrition, sports science will cause records to be broken

these supplements, many are right on the edge, a person could eat a natural diet with certain foods high in some ingredients and perhaps get charged with doping. I really think there should be a statute of limitations, say about 2 years on vacating a win. If they have taken samples and can't find it or have somebody rat em out by then, the wins should stand.


here is a 17 year old kid participating in a triathlete contest, what dreams did he have?

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Old 08-25-2012, 04:56 PM   #29
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they otta just close the damn thing down, forever
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:57 PM   #30
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Well, it isn't just Armstrong, that's for sure.

I remember in '98 they ran a section of the Tour in Ireland and the route ran right near my parents' house - I was so disgusted with the then current Festina scandal I didn't even bother going to view it.
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