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Old 01-14-2012, 11:23 AM   #661
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When the stats that they make show the value difference, why do I need to find some random, obscure quote? I'll let the numbers speak for themselves, thanks.
no no... you're not getting off that easy.

nobody would say it because it's a batshit crazy statement. and teams, other than the new york knicks, aren't into hiring batshit crazy people to run their organization.
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:19 PM   #662
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no no... you're not getting off that easy.

nobody would say it because it's a batshit crazy statement. and teams, other than the new york knicks, aren't into hiring batshit crazy people to run their organization.


A closer effects less plate appearances in a full, healthy career than a position player, starting pitcher, or designated hitter, depending on how good each player performs. A healthy, great closer as compared to a healthy, great position player will at most affect 60% as many plate appearances. That means that even a good, healthy position player doesn't have to perform at the elite level to hold more career value. Therefore any of those three will hold more career value than a closer. A closer may hold more concentrated value. How is this difficult a difficult concept to understand?
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Old 01-14-2012, 11:38 PM   #663
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A closer effects less plate appearances in a full, healthy career than a position player, starting pitcher, or designated hitter, depending on how good each player performs. A healthy, great closer as compared to a healthy, great position player will at most affect 60% as many plate appearances. That means that even a good, healthy position player doesn't have to perform at the elite level to hold more career value. Therefore any of those three will hold more career value than a closer. A closer may hold more concentrated value. How is this difficult a difficult concept to understand?
Honestly, take that bullshit and shove it up your ass.

Its a simple request. Provide an incidence of a respected baseball mind who says that Edgar Martinez is more valuable than Mariano Rivera.

Not that an average DH is worth more than an average closer. THIS closer.

You can't provide an answer to this question because it doesn't exist, because only a fool would believe that Edgar Martinez is more valuable than Mariano Rivera. How hard a concept is that foe you to wrap your mind around?

Stats don't tell the whole story. If I really wanted to I could find a stat to back up whatever argument I fucking want to make. There is a human element to athletics that no stat can measure. Get that through your fucking skull.
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:15 AM   #664
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I think Rivera's durability is the biggest thing missing from his value as captured by WAR -- it's much harder for a closer to stay healthy for 16 years than it is for a position player to do so (catchers excepted). Of course that's sort of by definition, since WAR compares the player to replacement-level players who are assumed to be widely available, but in reality no front office is ever going to do that.
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:08 PM   #665
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So... Fielder and Cespedes.

Where do they end up?
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:24 PM   #666
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Honestly, take that bullshit and shove it up your ass.

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How is this difficult a difficult concept to understand?
Time to drop this particular argument, clearly.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:20 PM   #667
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Time to drop this particular argument, clearly.
you are correct.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:52 PM   #668
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daaaang as a M's fanboy I missed a chance to talk about my wetdream

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I think Rivera's durability is the biggest thing missing from his value as captured by WAR -- it's much harder for a closer to stay healthy for 16 years than it is for a position player to do so (catchers excepted). Of course that's sort of by definition, since WAR compares the player to replacement-level players who are assumed to be widely available, but in reality no front office is ever going to do that.
I'd probably give Rivera the edge because of that durability, general performance, postseason success, and je ne sais quoi psychological stuff. But I think he gets a *good* advantage, not an overwhelming one.

Rivera, to his credit, has taken advantage of most every big opportunity that's presented itself in his life by being excellent and doing it on a team that gave him opportunities to show it, while the gap between Edgar's potential talent and displayed results is larger. But, oh well.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:35 PM   #669
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And there goes the Tigers' DH!
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:11 AM   #670
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Too bad for Victor, good guy, good hitter. Lots of money for the Tiggers to swallow.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:15 AM   #671
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I'm fine with it.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:04 PM   #672
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Looks like Ollie Perez found a new home
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:03 PM   #673
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Thoughts and prayers for ''The Kid'' and his family.

Gary Carter’s brain cancer treatment is “extremely grave” | HardballTalk
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:38 PM   #674
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Thoughts and prayers for ''The Kid'' and his family.

Gary Carter’s brain cancer treatment is “extremely grave” | HardballTalk
Such a sad situation.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:06 PM   #675
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So fausto carmona? Yea... turns out he isn't fausto carmona.

He's actually enrico pollazo.
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