2010 NBA Finals and beyond

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D-Whistle pusses himself into an injury in the first preseason game? Man, I'm kicking myself for not taking the under when I saw it set at 4.5 preseason games.

Fall down infinity times, get up because the injury was exaggerated due to your need to be labeled a "warrior" infinity + 1.
 
Not that the injury wasnt soft... but I'm sure it wasnt his decision to come out of the game.

it's preseason game 1. Why risk your superstar getting injured? They probably just told him to go ahead and take the game off.
 
I really find it quite unfair to say they have 0 depth. Big Z, Joel Anthony (a defensive shutdown, that's who will be guarding Dwight Howard), Udonis Haslem, and Bosh can all serve at the center position.

so your argument that they have depth consists of a center with no knees left and j-lo's brother-in-law? really making a solid point there.

can wade stay healthy?

i see that question reared it's ugly head last night...
 
well the post lebron era in cleveland is off to a rip-roaring start...

ept_sports_nba_experts-281790017-1286380672.jpg
 
can spoelstra get the job done with pat riley looming over his shoulder?

This is exactly the concern that I have about the Heat. I would think that a coach with an impressive resume, one who demands respect based on credentials, would be necessary to keep this team focused. As more detail comes out about Cleveland's recent playoff debacle, it is becoming increasingly clear that LeBron turned on Mike Brown in a drastic and blatant manner at some point during the Boston series. I can see him doing the same to Spoelstra if things do not go as planned. Spoelstra may well be a stronger coach than Mike Brown, but I still think that he has a formidable challenge ahead of him this season.
 
ESPN

The Los Angeles Lakers will win the NBA title and LeBron James won't win the NBA Most Valuable Player award -- at least if a survey of NBA general managers is accurate.

The annual NBA.com GM Survey, released Wednesday, says the Lakers are the team to beat, according to 63 percent of the 28 general managers who responded.

The Miami Heat, which picked up James and Chris Bosh to join Dwyane Wade during the offseason, was picked to win by 33 percent of the respondents.

The Boston Celtics were the pick of 4 percent.

In the MVP race, Kevin Durant of the Oklahoma City Thunder was the overwhelming pick, getting 67 percent of the votes. Kobe Bryant of the Lakers was second with 26 percent.

James, last year's league MVP, picked up just a single vote, as did Dwight Howard of the Orlando Magic.


--The Wizards' John Wall, this year's top overall pick, earned 68 percent of the vote as this year's likely rookie of the year. Last year's top pick, the Clippers' Blake Griffin, will also be a rookie after missing a season to injury, and received 29 percent of the vote.

--For the first time, Deron Williams (50 percent) of the Utah Jazz was voted as the top point guard in the league, overtaking the New Orleans Hornets’ Chris Paul (36 percent).

--The Dallas Mavericks’ Dirk Nowitzki (29 percent) and Lakers’ Pau Gasol (29 percent) finished tied as the best power forward in the league, replacing the San Antonio Spurs’ Tim Duncan, who had been selected as the best at his position for the past eight years.

--The Orlando Magic’s Dwight Howard (96 percent) was voted as the top center.

--The Heat’s James (68 percent) was named the best small forward.

--The Lakers’ Bryant (86 percent) was voted the best shooting guard. Bryant is currently the only player to have been selected as the best at his position every year of the survey.

--Thirty-nine percent of GMs believe the Heat will be the most improved team in 2010-11 while 14 percent of general managers feel the New York Knicks and Washington Wizards would be the most improved teams.

--For the ninth consecutive season, Bryant (79 percent) was also selected by GMs as the player they most want taking the shot with the game on the line.

--Nowitzki (57 percent) was voted the top international player.

--Durant (56 percent) was voted as the top player GMs would sign to start an NBA franchise.

--The Boston Celtics (100 percent) were unanimously picked to win the Atlantic Division, Chicago Bulls (82 percent) in the Central Division and the Miami Heat (74 percent) in the Southeast Division. In the Western Conference, the Los Angeles Lakers (96 percent) were predicted to win the Pacific Division, the Dallas Mavericks (71 percent) in the Southwest Division, and the Oklahoma City Thunder (63 percent) in the Northwest Division.

--The Lakers’ Phil Jackson was voted the best head coach (39 percent).

--The Magic’s Dwight Howard was voted best defensive player (78 percent).

--The Bulls’ Derrick Rose was voted fastest with the ball (21 percent).

--The Suns’ Steve Nash won the vote as best passer (75 percent).

--The Clippers' Griffin tied the Thunder’s Russell Westbrook as the most likely to have a breakout season (15 percent).

--The Oklahoma City Thunder were called the most fun team to watch (52 percent).

--The Celtics’ Ray Allen was voted the best pure shooter (54 percent).

--The Utah Jazz were voted the team with the best home court advantage (46 percent)
 
Wasn't Bosh pissing and moaning all summer about not wanting to play any center whatsoever?
 
Good one. Ignore absolutely everything I write, and make a funny [not] statement.

You've got no response to it. You know what you're called? A hater.

:sigh: if you insist...


I completely understand (and I agree) that LeBron is a gigantic egohead. I cant say the same about Wade. Wade for the most part keeps to himself. I dont like LeBron as a person (although I'm sure anybody would want his skills on their team).

agree to disagree about diane wade.

We will see about the defensive styles of teams. Boston is probably one of the very few teams that wouldn't have to run zone against Miami, but the point is during the playoffs the Heat had one man, Dwyane Wade. Who was essentially triple covered. And still produced. Boston cant do that anymore.

i ignored this because you're essentially wrong in your assessment about how boston guarded wade and lebron, because you believe that great defensive roations = triple teamed. a double (or triple) team involves players completely leaving their man to force the ball out of another player's hands. the celtics guarded lebron and wade straight up. their help defenders shaded them, as all help defenders would do against great player. the main difference is that the celtics had/have the best defensive rotations seen in the NBA since the mid 90's... likely a byproduct not just of having great defensive coaches, but also of having such a veteran team, as most of the new breed of NBA stars never even learn how to properly play man-to-man defense because nobody plays defense in AAU and they don't stay in college long enough to learn it.

if anything, the fact that lerbon and wade are inconsistent outside shooters plays into the hands of a team that rotates as well as boston does; as you need to be able to knock down the open jumper to beat them. mike miller will be key to being able to beat boston, probably more so than bosh.

the bulls are now coached by the guy who ran boston's defense, and they have a big, long, athletic team. it's yet to be seen if chicago's players will be willing to buy in to playing the same way, but i'm leaning to yes on that one.

I dont understand why Bosh being top 10 would exactly be 'comical' although I'd agree with you in saying he's not top 10. But in terms of positions... they have top 5 players in each of their respective positions. IMO though, Stoudemire > Bosh > Boozer.

stoudemire and boozer have both gone deep into the playoffs. bosh has been the focal point of a team that people thought were going to "take the next step" who never did. he's been a good player on a bad team. one could argue the exact same thing about pao gasol, but bosh doesn't have the kind of post repertoire that pao has, and isn't nearly as good a passer as pao is. frankly i don't know how bosh fits into a lineup that will more or less be a modified dribble drive.

Furthermore, this Miami team honestly looks like the equivalent of last years Cleveland Caviliers (+ Wade + Bosh). That's why it yells a potential dynasty. It depends on what you really call a dynasty though. Perhaps I'm using the word out of context... but if they are a top 3 team in the league for 6 years straight it might be different as opposed to winning 5 championships.

firstly, the past few years of cavs teams all were massive "disappointments" who were smoked out of the playoffs. secondly, those cavs teams had more depth than this heat team does, even though the heat certainly are more topheavy talent wise.

I really find it quite unfair to say they have 0 depth. Big Z, Joel Anthony (a defensive shutdown, that's who will be guarding Dwight Howard), Udonis Haslem, and Bosh can all serve at the center position. Furthermore, if I were Spoelstra (I hope he gets fired to be honest, he's horrible), it wouldnt take a genius to cycle these 3 players. If you keep one on the bench at most times, you have scoring threat constantly.

i don't. they're depth consists of mike miller, who frankly should be starting with lebron at the point instead of bronson arroyo and his wicked curveball, and i'll give you that udonis is a nice, serviceable big man who can play his role very well. after that their roster is an absolute joke. really... juwan howard? what, was tom gugliotta booked? joel anthony? really? you're going to argue the virtues of having joel anthony in the starting lineup? joel anthony blows.

And for the comment about Bosh carrying his team to a 40-42 record... to carry a team doesnt mean you need to carry them to the playoffs. Face it, without Bosh they were really, really bad. He carried them night in and night out. If Miami cycles those 3 players, Bosh can essentially make up for that proclaimed lack of depth on the bench.

as the saying goes... if the team can suck with the player, the team can suck without the player. bosh didn't carry shit. yes... to carry a team DOES mean that they actually have to bring them to some level of success. it may be semantics, but to say a guy "carried" a team to a below .500 record is pretty silly.

If you have any combination of the 3 out on the court at any single time, it's probably better than what the Raptors, Heat, or Cavs had all last season. Needless to say with the addition of Boozer, Chicago has almost created the same form of a triple threat.

I never said that the Heat are a dynasty in waiting. I said that if they can put it all together, they are. That's a fair statement. It's not guaranteed that they do, but if they can all work together and play as well cooperatively as they did individually last season (and play defense), 1+1+1=3. It adds up.

I guess only time will tell. But the potential is definitely there.

the thing is... when you put three guys together who are used to getting their touches, they can not possibly play as well cooperatively as they did individually. it's simply not possible. too many chiefs, not enough indians. somebody has to play a role. you can't have everyone getting the touches they've had in the past; there's only one ball. either all three have to sacrifice a lot and buy into a system, or one guy is going to be significantly left out. it's easy to say "oh he averaged 30, he averaged 28, he averaged 22... put 'em together and that's 80 points from three players!" reality is much, much different. boston had three guys towards the end of their careers who were willing to sacrifice individual glory for team glory. they are the exception to the rule. in most cases, when teams put stars together, the end result is not what was expected, because somebody isn't willing to play a lesser role. shaq and kobe only worked when shaq was the better player. once kobe became shaq's equal, they stopped winning.

as for dynasty? to say a team could become a dynasty before they've even played one game is just silly. shit happens. ego's explode, tendon's pop, ACL's blow; and that's not even to mention, oh, kobe bryant, kevin durant, carmelo anthony, dwight howard, etc. etc. etc.

again... would the heat winning the title this year shock me? not in the least... the only thing that would shock me is a team other than the lakers, the bulls, the heat, the celtics, the thunder and possibly random contender that manages to get carmelo without giving up significant parts winning the title.

in order? lakers, bulls, heat, celtics, thunder, random 'melo team.
 
:sigh: if you insist...

Now that's more like it.

i ignored this because you're essentially wrong in your assessment about how boston guarded wade and lebron, because you believe that great defensive roations = triple teamed. a double (or triple) team involves players completely leaving their man to force the ball out of another player's hands. the celtics guarded lebron and wade straight up. their help defenders shaded them, as all help defenders would do against great player. the main difference is that the celtics had/have the best defensive rotations seen in the NBA since the mid 90's... likely a byproduct not just of having great defensive coaches, but also of having such a veteran team, as most of the new breed of NBA stars never even learn how to properly play man-to-man defense because nobody plays defense in AAU and they don't stay in college long enough to learn it.

With LeBron, I was going on a limb. I didnt actually fully watch that series.

Go ahead and watch the videos though. Most of the time when Wade had his hands on the ball in slow paced or high pressure situations, immediately another player would be running up next to him. And late in the game, there were indeed 3 players moving into him at a time.



stoudemire and boozer have both gone deep into the playoffs. bosh has been the focal point of a team that people thought were going to "take the next step" who never did. he's been a good player on a bad team. one could argue the exact same thing about pao gasol, but bosh doesn't have the kind of post repertoire that pao has, and isn't nearly as good a passer as pao is. frankly i don't know how bosh fits into a lineup that will more or less be a modified dribble drive.

I think the point that's being missed is that Bosh is still all-star worthy. And even if he's not with the Heat, his addition of size to the team will be something that the Heat needed last year (and Jermaine O'Neal doesnt count. He was just awful.)



firstly, the past few years of cavs teams all were massive "disappointments" who were smoked out of the playoffs. secondly, those cavs teams had more depth than this heat team does, even though the heat certainly are more topheavy talent wise.

i don't. they're depth consists of mike miller, who frankly should be starting with lebron at the point instead of bronson arroyo and his wicked curveball, and i'll give you that udonis is a nice, serviceable big man who can play his role very well. after that their roster is an absolute joke. really... juwan howard? what, was tom gugliotta booked? joel anthony? really? you're going to argue the virtues of having joel anthony in the starting lineup? joel anthony blows.

Mike Miller will be starting sooner or later IMO. Okay, Juwan Howard is not very impressive. Arroyo serves his purpose, although I really dont like him myself. You're really not being fair with Joel Anthony though. You cant just look at the guys stats and claim he blows. He's a player that every Heat fan wanted back. He plays a solid defensive game. We dont need an offensive center starting for us. All we need is a man big enough to hold down that center spot offensively. Anthony can do that.

The team's not deep, but it has more than 3 to 5 quality players.



as the saying goes... if the team can suck with the player, the team can suck without the player. bosh didn't carry shit. yes... to carry a team DOES mean that they actually have to bring them to some level of success. it may be semantics, but to say a guy "carried" a team to a below .500 record is pretty silly.

Well then honestly you just take the word differently. Think about it from a players perspective. On the court. To stay in this game, we need 2 points. Who do we go to? Chris Bosh. Because he's carrying this team full of scrubs right now with 20 points. Without Bosh, this game was over before it started. That's how I see it.


the thing is... when you put three guys together who are used to getting their touches, they can not possibly play as well cooperatively as they did individually. it's simply not possible. too many chiefs, not enough indians. somebody has to play a role. you can't have everyone getting the touches they've had in the past; there's only one ball. either all three have to sacrifice a lot and buy into a system, or one guy is going to be significantly left out. it's easy to say "oh he averaged 30, he averaged 28, he averaged 22... put 'em together and that's 80 points from three players!" reality is much, much different. boston had three guys towards the end of their careers who were willing to sacrifice individual glory for team glory. they are the exception to the rule. in most cases, when teams put stars together, the end result is not what was expected, because somebody isn't willing to play a lesser role. shaq and kobe only worked when shaq was the better player. once kobe became shaq's equal, they stopped winning.

I would never suggest that 30 + 28 + 22 average PPG means 80. You're going to see high levels of fluctuations among points. Honestly, I think LeBron is going to see lower points but perhaps grab himself quite a bit of triple doubles this season.

That being said, even players considered as scrubs will see more points on average simply because they're going to find themselves open more often.

I dont think you're giving Wade, LeBron, and Bosh enough credit. I think they knew exactly what they were getting themselves into. I think, at least for the early years, there shouldnt be any ball issues. Once they win a championship (much like Kobe and Shaq), you might start to see issues arising.

as for dynasty? to say a team could become a dynasty before they've even played one game is just silly. shit happens. ego's explode, tendon's pop, ACL's blow; and that's not even to mention, oh, kobe bryant, kevin durant, carmelo anthony, dwight howard, etc. etc. etc.

What do Kobe, Durant, Carmelo, or Howard have anything to do with the Heat NOT being a dynasty? The 90s Bulls were a dynasty. That doesnt mean other amazing players didnt exist in the 90s. The Heat becoming a dynasty rests solely in thier own hands.

I never called them a dynasty before they'd played a game. I said they can be a dynasty. You're the one being insistant upon them not having a chance at being a dynasty. Or at least, it's laughable to suggest such a thing.
 
You can disagree with Headache all you want, but I wouldn't say he's basing his assessments on people just based on stats.
 
For whatever it's worth, I define carrying a team more like LuckyNumber7 does. Not sure there is a right or wrong with this one, but, if a shit team can finish around .500 due to a strong effort by one cat, that's carrying a team to me. As for the rest of the stuff, I got sleepy reading some of it so I don't remember the gist. I will say that Shannon carries this thread more often than not, so there's that. :)
 
What exactly do you mean? (I assume you're against me here considering that's the general concensus.
I mean that say what you want about Headache but the dude watches a lot of basketball. I seriously doubt his assessment of Joel Anthony is just based on checking box scores.
 
I mean that say what you want about Headache but the dude watches a lot of basketball. I seriously doubt his assessment of Joel Anthony is just based on checking box scores.

Not saying the opposite. And from watching a good 75% of the Miami Heat games last season, I'm gonna disagree with him. Joel Anthony is not garbage. He's in no means a starter, but he is definitely a great option at center to have. He's good defensively. That's all we really need.
 
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