Wilco - New Album- Star Wars - Free download - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Lemonade Stand > Just the Bang and the Clatter
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-23-2015, 12:02 AM   #76
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 54,158
Local Time: 08:53 AM
7.7 from the fork
__________________

__________________
cobl04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 12:04 AM   #77
The Male
 
LemonMelon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hollywoo
Posts: 65,246
Local Time: 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
Should I have used "boring" instead of "lame"?
Yes. You're describing him as being a limp vocalist, not a lame one.

Tweedy gets a little tryhard with his lyrics when he goes abstract (see: Christgau's amusing parody in his YHF review), but I wouldn't even call him lame or corny for that.
__________________

__________________


Now.
LemonMelon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 12:05 AM   #78
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Kieran McConville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Auto Dafoe
Posts: 9,220
Local Time: 08:53 AM
I think Tweedy is no great singer but his voice has a certain quality, a warmth to it. I mean that he cannot ever be mistaken for anyone else (by me anyhow) but himself.
__________________
Kieran McConville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 12:09 AM   #79
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,604
Local Time: 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
You seem to be talking about their live presence and I'm referring to their recorded output. I don't think he's a captivating vocalist. He bores me.

Should I have used "boring" instead of "lame"?
Ah, right. You did say 'vocal approach' and I didn't quite get it. My boyfriend feels exactly the same way. It's hard to get past a voice you don't care for that's for sure.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 12:16 AM   #80
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 54,158
Local Time: 08:53 AM
I like his vocals. As Kieran says, they've got a warmth to them I like.

"How can I convince you that's me I don't like..."
__________________
cobl04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 12:49 AM   #81
Blue Crack Supplier
 
lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 37,138
Local Time: 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonMelon View Post
Yes. You're describing him as being a limp vocalist, not a lame one.

Tweedy gets a little tryhard with his lyrics when he goes abstract (see: Christgau's amusing parody in his YHF review), but I wouldn't even call him lame or corny for that.

One of the reasons I don't worship at the altar of YHF are the lyrics. I Am Trying To Break Your Heart is just eye-rolling to me.

I'm not sure if they were better on AGIB or if I was just used to them at that point, but I prefer the latter album.

For what it's worth, I seem to remember Christgau giving a positive re-evaluation of YHF at the end of the year/Pazz & Jop, and at the expense of Sea Change, which had lessened in his eyes over time.

He also gave a head-slapping A- to VWilco (The Album), and called it their best.
__________________
lazarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 12:55 AM   #82
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Kieran McConville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Auto Dafoe
Posts: 9,220
Local Time: 08:53 AM
For such a highly-esteemed critic, Christgau astounds me with some of the stuff he comes up with. I'm pretty sure he despises every artist I like.
__________________
Kieran McConville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 12:57 AM   #83
Blue Crack Supplier
 
lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 37,138
Local Time: 03:53 PM
Managed to dig up what I was talking about; it was his essay for the 2002 P&J poll. He still seems a bit cool on YHF, but it's a really great piece of writing:


How I tell them apart is that Wilco is the one I tried to hate and ended up respecting and Beck is the one I tried to like and ended up walking around the room until it could get home on its own. As I relistened, it happened again: Yankee Hotel Foxtrot was so passive-aggressive I wanted to throttle it, Sea Change so pretty I wanted to tell it I was sorry, only then Beck's songs vaporized as Wilco's took on a weathered solidity. Clearly, though, the two share a genetic code: diffident vocals, winsome tunes, contained tempos, affectless rhythms, and, above all, texture as aesthetic signifier. Nothing wrong with texture, which as timbre, melisma, "microtones," etc. is a prized delicacy in almost every kind of music; in rock and roll, it's been sticking out its tongue at "classical" canons of tonal purity since 1955. But note that its present vogue privileges what once would have been called sound effects, and that these proceed from the sampler and hence hip hop, though in England they say techno. Most would rate Radiohead's OK Computer the apogee of pomo texture, well ahead of Beck's Odelay, but before those two I fell for Latin Playboys. Where OK Computer's sound effects are also alienation effects, all dystopian gloom, fractured groove, and hate-love relationship with technology, on Latin Playboys, David Hidalgo and Louie Perez conjure places and people past and present from Tchad Blake's audio treasure chest, blending them in with a hip, swinging, hip-swinging sense of time. My view of our dystopian prospect is that if I change my mind now about who was right, bin Bush has won.

As a token of their transcendent genius, Wilco split the difference. Our winner is temperate rather than warm or cold, reticent rather than sociable or disaffected, and barely sampled at all--more "treated," or just plain arranged. The way Jeff Tweedy's tunes seep through shifting strata of complication recalls Beck's in Odelay, but Odelay was a lot jollier than Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, and also than Sea Change, which signals a retreat by abandoning the sampler for sour strings, gobs of reverb, and passably parsable lyrics. Both records make a virtue of their entanglement in disconnected sound, their depressive inability to control an encroaching environment--a defeatism familiar enough from slacker days, only slackers were hyperactive, funny, or at least ironic about it. Wilco's and Beck's integrity comes down to a stubborn determination--distinctly American in its folksy affect and go-it-alone-ism--to tell the world how very ineffective they feel.



Good luck finding anything that interesting on Pitchfork.
__________________
lazarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 01:05 AM   #84
Blue Crack Supplier
 
lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 37,138
Local Time: 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran McConville View Post
For such a highly-esteemed critic, Christgau astounds me with some of the stuff he comes up with. I'm pretty sure he despises every artist I like.

Now you're engaging in hyperbole. Christgau has as eclectic tastes as any critic I've come across, which is even more impressive considering how old he is. The one thing he really isn't into is 80s/90s British rock (though he loved New Order), prog rock and certain forms of pretension, which is why he's often taken potshots at Radiohead, for example (though he loves Arcade Fire).

You can click on his "Dean's List" for any year and check out what his favs are, compare them to the overall critics' poll consensus list, and read his annual essays for the years he was in charge of P&J.

Robert Christgau: Pazz & Jop

He certainly marches to his own drummer, but he's championed a lot of important modern acts from early on: Pavement, P.J. Harvey, M.I.A., OutKast, Sleater-Kinney, etc.

If he has one major flaw it's that his auteurist bent leads him to overrate subpar albums from great artists.
__________________
lazarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 01:08 AM   #85
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Kieran McConville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Auto Dafoe
Posts: 9,220
Local Time: 08:53 AM
I'll certainly not deny that he has unusually wide listening tastes. Though I think he has massive blind spots.
__________________
Kieran McConville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 01:09 AM   #86
The Male
 
LemonMelon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hollywoo
Posts: 65,246
Local Time: 03:53 PM
I liked that piece.

The one blind spot that lessens him for me as a source of recommendations is hip hop. Horrendous taste. Pitchfork-level bad. No, worse. He enjoys albums within the genre, but many of them are terrible meme records with no lasting value. It's fun to watch him justify iSouljaboytellem.com, SremmLife and The New Classic as worthwhile art, but I can't imagine him throwing those records on even a week after he reviews them.
__________________


Now.
LemonMelon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 01:16 AM   #87
Blue Crack Supplier
 
lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 37,138
Local Time: 03:53 PM
I mean, at least he listens to some of it.

And as I said, he was an early supporter of OutKast, plus The Roots, Lil Wayne.
__________________
lazarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 01:18 AM   #88
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 54,158
Local Time: 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
Managed to dig up what I was talking about; it was his essay for the 2002 P&J poll. He still seems a bit cool on YHF, but it's a really great piece of writing:


How I tell them apart is that Wilco is the one I tried to hate and ended up respecting and Beck is the one I tried to like and ended up walking around the room until it could get home on its own. As I relistened, it happened again: Yankee Hotel Foxtrot was so passive-aggressive I wanted to throttle it, Sea Change so pretty I wanted to tell it I was sorry, only then Beck's songs vaporized as Wilco's took on a weathered solidity. Clearly, though, the two share a genetic code: diffident vocals, winsome tunes, contained tempos, affectless rhythms, and, above all, texture as aesthetic signifier. Nothing wrong with texture, which as timbre, melisma, "microtones," etc. is a prized delicacy in almost every kind of music; in rock and roll, it's been sticking out its tongue at "classical" canons of tonal purity since 1955. But note that its present vogue privileges what once would have been called sound effects, and that these proceed from the sampler and hence hip hop, though in England they say techno. Most would rate Radiohead's OK Computer the apogee of pomo texture, well ahead of Beck's Odelay, but before those two I fell for Latin Playboys. Where OK Computer's sound effects are also alienation effects, all dystopian gloom, fractured groove, and hate-love relationship with technology, on Latin Playboys, David Hidalgo and Louie Perez conjure places and people past and present from Tchad Blake's audio treasure chest, blending them in with a hip, swinging, hip-swinging sense of time. My view of our dystopian prospect is that if I change my mind now about who was right, bin Bush has won.

As a token of their transcendent genius, Wilco split the difference. Our winner is temperate rather than warm or cold, reticent rather than sociable or disaffected, and barely sampled at all--more "treated," or just plain arranged. The way Jeff Tweedy's tunes seep through shifting strata of complication recalls Beck's in Odelay, but Odelay was a lot jollier than Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, and also than Sea Change, which signals a retreat by abandoning the sampler for sour strings, gobs of reverb, and passably parsable lyrics. Both records make a virtue of their entanglement in disconnected sound, their depressive inability to control an encroaching environment--a defeatism familiar enough from slacker days, only slackers were hyperactive, funny, or at least ironic about it. Wilco's and Beck's integrity comes down to a stubborn determination--distinctly American in its folksy affect and go-it-alone-ism--to tell the world how very ineffective they feel.



Good luck finding anything that interesting on Pitchfork.
Definitely interesting. Does he have any music books I could check out?
__________________
cobl04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 01:41 AM   #89
Blue Crack Supplier
 
lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 37,138
Local Time: 03:53 PM
He's published Consumer Guides and a memoir, but I've had the most fun just looking up random bands on his website and reading his capsule reviews, which are what he's known for.

Check out his Pavement reviews, they're golden.
__________________
lazarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 07:36 AM   #90
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Kieran McConville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Auto Dafoe
Posts: 9,220
Local Time: 08:53 AM
I know I was being hyperbolic earlier about Christgau. But seriously, go to his 'consumer guide'. Achtung Baby gets a little lit-fuse-bomb emoticon. EYKIW ATYCLB (fucking motherfucking typos) gets a two line, vaguely positive review and an A-.

That's some kind of fucked up.
__________________

__________________
Kieran McConville is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com