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Old 05-22-2009, 07:41 PM   #136
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^I feel like I could have written that. Seriously.

The review makes some fantastic points, and I really do agree with or at least sympathize with everything in it. I feel relieved that I wasn't just being a bad fan the past few years. These last couple of albums have left me with a sense of lack and sadness, and I even find myself wondering if Tori was that great to begin with. (She was, wasn't she???) *sigh*

The review is spot-on about the lyrics. With Tori's older songs, the lyrics were so strange you could always make them refer to your own life in some way. They left so much to the listener's imagination. Now they just bore me to tears or make me wonder what the hell is going on. (You Can Bring Your Dog, anyone?) I also agree that Tori needs some fresh influences in the studio. Desperately so.

I want to buy that reviewer a drink and tell him/her I completely sympathize and understand. I wish Tori could read it and realize there are probably lots of us who feel the same way.
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:44 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by joyfulgirl View Post
Fire to Your Plain, Police Me, Mary Jane, Not Dying Today, 500 Miles and That Guy should have all been left on the editing floor. That Guy sounds completely out of place.

Lady in Blue is too long and I just don't care about it yet.

The rest, however, is very solid. It should have been 11 or 12 songs instead of 17.
Yes, yes, and yes. My only difference is that Fire to Your Plain doesn't bother me, and I think I like it well enough. Mary Jane and That Guy are just stupid. Again, what would happen if Tori brought in some new producers? The guy you're married to isn't exactly going to fight you over cutting deadweight songs off your album.
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Old 05-23-2009, 02:04 PM   #138
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I want to buy that reviewer a drink and tell him/her I completely sympathize and understand. I wish Tori could read it and realize there are probably lots of us who feel the same way.
That's kind of how I felt when I read it. I actually thought of you while I was reading it, too, because it seemed to touched on everything we've talked about over the years.

Ok, here's my edited version of Abnormally Attracted to Sin. I made a playlist last night and I am enjoying this version very much. I even warmed up to Fire to You Plain and Police Me which sound a lot better without the truly useless Not Dying Today, 500 Miles, Mary Jane and That Guy. Somehow everything sounds a little bit better without the weakest songs dragging it all down.

1. Give
2. Welcome to England
3. Strong Black Vine
4. Flavor
5. Maybe California
6. Curtain Call
7. Fire to Your Plain
8. Police Me
9. Abnormally Attracted to Sin
10. Starling
11. Fast Horse
12. Ophelia

That right there would have been a pretty solid record, I think.
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Old 05-23-2009, 02:13 PM   #139
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and I even find myself wondering if Tori was that great to begin with. (She was, wasn't she???) *sigh*
She sure was to me.

It's funny that I have a similar relationship with Tori that I do with U2. High highs followed by 'please don't do anything embarrassing next.' lol
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Old 05-23-2009, 02:35 PM   #140
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Very interesting review that! I hardly even listen to Posse these days and I'm wondering if the same thing will happen if I get this album. First I've got to listen to all those youtube clips posted so far.
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Old 05-23-2009, 02:46 PM   #141
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That playlist looks very good; I was thinking of doing the very same thing! It's cool that nowadays, with iTunes and the like, fans can make their own albums in a way. Not sure how the artists would feel about that, though.

And you know, Tori really was amazing. She doesn't have legions of rabid fans for nothing. Last night I was surfing around the web and came across a review for AATS on rateyourmusic. The reviewer simply wrote: "The sound of a very talented artist thoroughly and completely jumping the shark." When I went to his page, it was clear he was a Toriphile. Upon visiting his blog, I found a series of essays with some video clips about Choirgirl. He had written them when he first listened to the album 11 years ago, and reposted them on the album's anniversary about two weeks ago.

I read through them, and really, that album was fantastic! And it's not even my favorite Tori album! What he wrote about She's Your Cocaine even made me look at that song in a different way. (It is his very favorite song in the world, apparently.) I started looking around at the lyrics and explanations of some of Tori's older work, and listening to some of the old stuff. God, it was amazing! In an interview she had said all of her hardcore fans loved her b-sides best, and that is so true for me. Cooling, Upside Down, and Beulah Land are three of my faves, easily. It's unbelievable that those songs were cut from her early albums, and nowadays fans are begging for some editing and discernment.

And so, at 2 in the morning, I was just thinking that yeah, Tori really was that amazing. Watching some of those old clips...her performances of "Cruel" and "Black Dove" were so captivating.

I guess Tori just isn't in that tortured place of the 90s, where she was struggling to define herself, figuring out her relationships with men, and trying to understand why God seemingly didn't want her to become a mother. I guess we all mellow out as we get older, and I'm glad Tori's in a different place, but it just doesn't make for the compelling music and performances that it used to. And that's okay. The new album isn't horrible. And when I listen to my Clyde playlist from Posse, I am very happy.

Anyway, I did a lot of Tori soul-searching last night and just wanted to share. I've been a fan of hers for more than half my life, and her music has meant so much to me. Here is a link to that reviewer's blog if anyone wants to read what he wrote about Choirgirl. Choirgirl essays
That link should take you to the essays, though you'll want to scroll down a ways and start at the beginning of the album. Those posts really took me back.

Edit: Whoops. Apparently he originally wrote mini-essays when he listened to Strange Little Girls. He then took that idea and put it into use for his anniversary mini-essays on Choirgirl. Apparently I'm not so alert at 2 in the morning...Either way, both the SLG essays and Choirgirl essays are worthy reads.
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Old 05-23-2009, 04:02 PM   #142
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Yeah, she really was that good. The shows I saw from the Choirgirl tour were drop dead breathtaking, and even the shows from the Scarlet's Walk tour were completely amazing. I remember the Albuquerque show from SW where she played basically all my favorite songs including an extra surprise encore of Joni Mitchell's "A Case of You" and when the lights went up, I swear everyone was just sitting there wiping away tears and not moving. I had brought a friend with me who didn't know anything about Tori except what I played in the car on the hour's drive to the show, and he was completely blown away.

By contrast, the show I saw on the last tour had me rolling my eyes and running for the door when it was over. There were some great moments, but the whole feel of it - the costumes, the wigs, the dolls, how skinny and weird she looked - was just off, like she had become a caricature of herself.

And I completely agree with you about her old b-sides. I had even originally written in one post here that maybe she can't edit because she never got over leaving Cooling off of Pele but I was on a rant and ended up editing that post way down. But it's weird how you and I are really on the same page.

I look forward to perusing that guy's (ha) essays - thanks!
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Old 05-23-2009, 09:06 PM   #143
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YouTube - TORI AMOS live HEY JUPITER
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Old 05-24-2009, 02:31 AM   #144
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I was listening to Pele last night after a long time, and got reminded of how beautiful the piano on Doughnut Song really is. The song could probably easily fit into Under The Pink. The thing is though, I am guilty of sometimes ignoring that second half of Pele because I find it somewhat difficult to listen to those songs on their own. The whole album is stunning when heard at a stretch from start to finish, as one cohesive body but playing a song like In The Springtime Of His Voodoo or Not The Red Baron one fine afternoon and just listening to it out of place from the context of the album never seems to happen for me. Does anybody else feel this way about Pele?
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Old 05-24-2009, 08:57 PM   #145
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Hmm. This will probably just make me sound old, but oh well.

When Pele came out, nobody I knew listened to music on their computers. It was still very much all about the CD format. And so when it came to listening to Pele, it wasn't really something I did just to pop the CD in and have a go at one or two songs at a time. People's CD players barely had shuffle buttons, which I don't think you'd want to use with Pele.

So that was how I got to know that album. Every time I listened to it, it was in its entirety. And Pele is my favorite Tori album, so I really do know it forward and backward. Nowadays, when I put my Tori catalogue on shuffle, or my iTunes in general, I have no problem listening to those later Pele songs by themselves, because I know them very, very well and can still feel where they belong in the context of the record. But I can understand where you are coming from. Pele may be one of the most thematically consistent, cohesive albums out there. Not a song on there doesn't belong, and so I could see where it might be tough to listen to and appreciate those individual songs out of their context in a day and age where people are less likely to listen to a whole album in one sitting.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:50 AM   #146
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This thread is making me miss old school Tori. I listened to Little Earthquakes yesterday - it had been quite a while, and I'd forgotten how much I loved it. I have a bootleg CD of a show she did on the Pele tour, and it's FANTASTIC. I'll have to pull that one out as well.

I was enthralled with her in college after LE came out - I really felt so much of what she was singing spoke directly to me and some pretty heavy stuff I was dealing with. I saw her in concert a few times between her UtP tour and Strange Little Girls (the only show I was disappointed with was when she played with Alanis Morrissette and had a full band).

Her shows were always amazing (except that one), although the more I saw her, the more there seemed to be screaming girls in the audience who just had to whoot, scream or shriek after every pearl of wisdom that came out of Tori's mouth, and that was just so annoying. Shut up and listen, you dipshits.

... and I'm the last person to be all "you can't do such and such at a rock concert!" I just preferred the Tori shows I saw where the audience was silent with quiet reverence while she played.

Anyway. I downloaded the album after previously deciding I wouldn't. We'll see what I think about it.
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:24 AM   #147
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Her shows were always amazing (except that one), although the more I saw her, the more there seemed to be screaming girls in the audience who just had to whoot, scream or shriek after every pearl of wisdom that came out of Tori's mouth, and that was just so annoying. Shut up and listen, you dipshits.

... and I'm the last person to be all "you can't do such and such at a rock concert!" I just preferred the Tori shows I saw where the audience was silent with quiet reverence while she played.
Yeah, the screaming is so annoying. It really ruined certain parts of the ADP show I went to. I was shocked by it because I had always heard about that quiet, respectful audience.

I wish I could have been around to see her shows in the 90's. Her performances and audience interaction was amazing from what I've seen:

YouTube - Tori Amos China Live

YouTube - Pain In My Hole - Tori Amos
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:24 PM   #148
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I think it's a little bit of Choirgirl, To Venus & Back, and Scarlet's Walk all rolled into one, but maybe not as strong as any of those? I'm not sure yet.

I think I agree with that statement after listening to only the first 4 songs. I finally picked up the CD and popped it in this morning. So all I heard was what had time to play from kids' school to home.

All I can say right now is halfway through Strong Black Vine I cried "There's my Tori! Where ya been, girl?!" And the clouds parted, the sky opened..hallelujah.

I can't wait to hear the rest of it. I hope it's as sexy, dark, haunting and uplifting as what I've listened to so far. Tori's voice on Flavor is breathtaking.
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Old 05-27-2009, 01:31 AM   #149
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I listened to the whole CD once today and several tracks 2 or 3 times. While my initial excitement did not carry throughout for all the 'girls', I will say there is some very fine material here. I am looking forward to letting some of the other ones grow on me (hell, I didn't care for Magnificent when I first heard it, outside of the intro, of course. Now it's my favorite)

I think the first 4 tracks are incredibly strong. Not Dying Today..meh, but I start warming up again a bit on Maybe California. Curtain Call is catchy, I like it. I also liked Fire to Your Plain immediately. I think it's a great song with a lot of potential to bloom even more.
Police Me, That Guy, again...not loving a whole lot. Title track is really good. It just might be great. The remainder I need to hear again, louder (my kids were in the car rolling their eyes I think I played nothing but Tori for a whole year once and they remember)

All in all, I think I just might love this album. I know I'm making travel plans if she doesn't come to Vegas. I got the deluxe ed. so I need to check out what's on the other disc. I think the photos are beautiful (doesn't hurt she's holding an Asian Waterdragon!) All the rumouring about has she or hasn't she, I don't really have an opinion. It could be editing. I think she looks amazing and her voice and vibe are something to savor.
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Old 05-31-2009, 02:45 AM   #150
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Don't know if you've already seen this..I hadn't. A FB friend sent it today.
Tori puts a couple rude girls in their place:

YouTube - Tori Amos Code Red Live
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