The Police Tour '07 - Part 3 - Page 29 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-28-2008, 04:04 PM   #421
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter
Who opened the 1984 OZ Police tour? Isn't Fergie a multi platinum artist?

It doesn't count because it's in a field rather than a Stadium? Three acts are the same number as the Police in 2008. Santana's hits had dried up by the late 70's and his fusion albums didn't sell what they used to.

Also, The Beatles played to 72,000 fans in Sydney in 1964. 6 arena sized shows over 3 days, including matinees. Just to put things in perspective.

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I believe it was Bryan Adams who had yet to receive a multi-platinum award anywhere on the planet in March 1984. Fergie is a multi-platinum artist, but she was not opening for the Police in 1984 when she was a toddler.

I don't recall ever saying that a field would not count. I did say that not having a stadium did not prevent an artist from holding a large concert. Its not the number of acts, but the drawing power of the individual acts. Santana had a large multi-platinum career in the 1970s that did not all of a sudden vanish in the late 70s especially when it came to selling concert tickets.

In addition, there is no reliable evidence that there were 70,000 people at this festival show, that the people actually purchased tickets, and certainly nothing listing it as the largest show by a foreign artist in the history of Australia at the time.

Selling an equal or slightly larger number of total tickets with 6 shows is not nearly as impressive as selling roughly the same number of tickets to one show.

Oh, just to keep things in perspective with the Beatles, it took the Beatles Two weeks to sellout Shea Stadium in New York City when the capacity was set at 55,000. It took the Police 5 hours to sellout Shea Stadium when the capacity was set at 67,000 in 1983.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:12 PM   #422
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter


So it's OK to take some info from a TV as iron-clad fact, but your allowed to dismiss 70,000 showing up for a full Fleetwood Mac performance as "may have been free"?

Were The Police the only act on the 1984 tour?

Also, the Black Eyed Peas did so well on their OZ tour a couple years ago that that is where they shot their DVD. Fergie was announced after ticket onsale to get more fans into the stadiums.

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Yes, I would take a music telivision show in Australia at the TIME any day over some FAN website alleging some level of attendance.

I already said that Bryan Adams opened for the Police in Australia and New Zealand in 1984. Bryan Adams did have 1 platinum album in the United States at the time, but I don't think he had one yet in Australia and would not be playing anything larger than 3,000 seat theaters if he had been on his own.

Where did the Black Eyed Peas play in Australia on their tour and what makes you think that Fergie would have exactly the same success?

Yes, Fergie was put on the Bill in 2008 to try and help thicken the attendance although it does not appear to have worked. Everyone knows that Australia is one of the area's that attendance did not meet expectations on the Police tour, and Fergie was unable to change that which is not a surprise.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:15 PM   #423
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter


Just one show you took out of context or every arena sized show they've ever played in California? How does this pertain to Australia?

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Los Angeles after New York City is the largest city market in the world for music. Typically, if you can't sellout an arena sized venue in Los Angeles or New York City, your unlikely to be able to anywhere else. Not always, but that is often the case.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:25 PM   #424
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Originally posted by phanan
Santana certainly wasn't a multi-platinum artist anymore in 1977, though (at least domestically). He hadn't had a hit in years. I doubt him being on the bill had any major effect. Whereas Rumours is one of the biggest selling albums of all time, and Fleetwood Mac were certainly at their peak in 1977.
Fleetwood Mac as of August 1975 had yet to even have a single hit. Rumours was only Fleetwood Mac's second significant selling album at the time. They were new artist, selling large amounts of albums, but often such artist need strong support on the road to even fill arena's. Rumours may have been their peak in album sales, but commercially, it was actually only their sophmore effort.

Given these facts, and the likely hood that Santana in many ways was an equal and more respected name when it came to concert ticket sales, I'd argue that such a show in 1977 may have been co-headlining if it was not a festival. In any event there is no reliable figure for the number of people at the show given that its being reported by a fan website, no information on whether it was free or not, and certainly NOTHING suggesting that it was the largest show in Australian history, as the respected Australian music show COUNTDOWN said of the Police's Melbourne 1984 show.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:27 PM   #425
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow
Yes, I would take a music telivision show in Australia at the TIME any day over some FAN website alleging some level of attendance.


FM were not doing free shows, and the FMLegacy website has a thorough tour history from their entire career and all related solo projects. The photo does not lie and easily competes with the 60,000+ number The Police had in 1984 that you cite.

Do you think Santana would have played bigger than 3,000 seaters if they toured Australia by themselves in 1977?

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I already said that Bryan Adams opened for the Police in Australia and New Zealand in 1984. Bryan Adams did have 1 platinum album in the United States at the time, but I don't think he had one yet in Australia and would not be playing anything larger than 3,000 seat theaters if he had been on his own.
a surprise.
Bryan played Australia 14 months after "Cut's like a Knife" was released as a single, it was also his 3rd album which yeilded 4 big hits(wikipedia glance). I will say that Adams likely had a much bigger influence on 1984 ticket sales than Fergie had in 2008.

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Old 01-28-2008, 04:36 PM   #426
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Bowie sold 74,000 tickets for his November 26th 1983 concert in Auckland.

Abba and KISS also had large Aussie crowds.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:41 PM   #427
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Originally posted by Strongbow
Oh, just to keep things in perspective with the Beatles, it took the Beatles Two weeks to sellout Shea Stadium in New York City when the capacity was set at 55,000. It took the Police 5 hours to sellout Shea Stadium when the capacity was set at 67,000 in 1983.
Ignoring that ticket buying technology improving over a 18 years period, let alone sound & light technology or the fact The Police played a set 3 times as long. 1965 SHEA actually sold out 2 weeks before it went onsale because promoter Bernstein was broke at the time and had to put 50% of the Beatles fund into a escrow bank account. Bernstein admitted this years later.

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Old 01-28-2008, 04:51 PM   #428
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Originally posted by Strongbow


Fleetwood Mac as of August 1975 had yet to even have a single hit. Rumours was only Fleetwood Mac's second significant selling album at the time. They were new artist, selling large amounts of albums, but often such artist need strong support on the road to even fill arena's. Rumours may have been their peak in album sales, but commercially, it was actually only their sophmore effort.

Given these facts, and the likely hood that Santana in many ways was an equal and more respected name when it came to concert ticket sales, I'd argue that such a show in 1977 may have been co-headlining if it was not a festival. In any event there is no reliable figure for the number of people at the show given that its being reported by a fan website, no information on whether it was free or not, and certainly NOTHING suggesting that it was the largest show in Australian history, as the respected Australian music show COUNTDOWN said of the Police's Melbourne 1984 show.
And what was Countdown's source? Do you just go by what a TV show says? I wouldn't, no matter how respected they are.

I think that line of thinking gets thrown out the window when the album they are supporting is one of the best selling albums in history.

Considering that other FM shows in 1977 around the world consistently had over 60,000 in attendance, I don't think it's out of reach to say that the number at that Australia show is accurate, and not really having anything to do with Santana.

Just my opinion based on what I've read.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:26 PM   #429
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter
Bowie sold 74,000 tickets for his November 26th 1983 concert in Auckland.

Abba and KISS also had large Aussie crowds.

Thats wonderful, but Auckland is NOT in Australia!



I'm sure Abba and Kiss did play to large crowds, but not as large as the Police's Melbourne March 4, 1984 show.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:34 PM   #430
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter


FM were not doing free shows, and the FMLegacy website has a thorough tour history from their entire career and all related solo projects. The photo does not lie and easily competes with the 60,000+ number The Police had in 1984 that you cite.

Do you think Santana would have played bigger than 3,000 seaters if they toured Australia by themselves in 1977?



Bryan played Australia 14 months after "Cut's like a Knife" was released as a single, it was also his 3rd album which yeilded 4 big hits(wikipedia glance). I will say that Adams likely had a much bigger influence on 1984 ticket sales than Fergie had in 2008.

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No photo would ever be used as an accurate estimate of crowd size. Thats just absurd. Thats great that there are Fleetwood Mac Websites out there, buts not relevant to the discussion.

Based on Santana's popularity I think they would have been booked in Arena's. As of 1977, they had actually either sold more albums than Fleetwood Mac or at least had a similarlevel of album sales. Santana had nearly 10 albums released by that time having gone gone gold, platinum, and multi-platinum all over the world. Fleetwood Mac in 1977 only had TWO albums with any sort of success.


I actually have the Australian top 20 albums and singles charts from December 1982 through the end of January 1984. Bryan Adams did not chart even once in either the top 20 albums chart or on the top 20 singles chart in any of the 60 weeks.

Bottom Line: Bryan Adams was essentially an unknown artist when he supported the Police in Australia in March 1984. Fergie by contrast had already been in the Black Eyed Peas and had her own hits and sold albums, so its easy to see that Bryan Adams had zero impact on the attendance for the Police shows in Australia in 1984.


By the way, although Bryan Adams did not chart in 1983 in Australia, the "Little River Band" did. It seems that the "Little River Band" may have had a strong fan base in Australia as well when Fleetwood Mac played with them and Santana.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:38 PM   #431
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter


Ignoring that ticket buying technology improving over a 18 years period, let alone sound & light technology or the fact The Police played a set 3 times as long. 1965 SHEA actually sold out 2 weeks before it went onsale because promoter Bernstein was broke at the time and had to put 50% of the Beatles fund into a escrow bank account. Bernstein admitted this years later.

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Beatles tickets were available to the public for two weeks before it was soldout. So ticket buying technology was essentially irrelevant. In fact in 1983, all tickets were either sold at a ticket outlet or over the phone. Either way, there is no comparison between selling out in 5 hours and selling out in two weeks. In addition, many of the Beatles shows on their last tour in 1966 in the United States did not actually sellout.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:48 PM   #432
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Originally posted by phanan


And what was Countdown's source? Do you just go by what a TV show says? I wouldn't, no matter how respected they are.

I think that line of thinking gets thrown out the window when the album they are supporting is one of the best selling albums in history.

Considering that other FM shows in 1977 around the world consistently had over 60,000 in attendance, I don't think it's out of reach to say that the number at that Australia show is accurate, and not really having anything to do with Santana.

Just my opinion based on what I've read.
Do you just go by what some fan website would claim in 2007, as opposed to a successful music telivision show in Australia?

Again, what evidence do you have that the Police show in Melbourne was not the largest show by a Foreign artist as of March 1984. If this was just hype they would have claimed it was the largest show in Australia ever, but there was obviously an Australian artist that had a larger attended show at the time. Countdown made its statement based on the facts they had available to them which is likely to more than what anyone here has at the time.

Rumours today is one of the best selling albums in history today, but that does not mean they had the largest attended show as of 1984. No one has shown any source that claims that Fleetwood Mac had any such record at any time.

In addition, when you only have one album or two albums that people have purchased, many do not run out to buy tickets to the show, at least not in numbers to facilitate a stadium show. But, if one brings in other big name artist, then the chances of drawing a stadium sized crowd go up.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:36 PM   #433
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Proshot footage of Santana's set infront of 70,000 people at the Calder Park Raceway opening for Fleetwood Mac in November 1977 is on Youtube. Proof is now 1) video 2)FM tour history 3)a fansite 4) an aerial photo.

The argument now is whether Santana/FM is a festival bill and Police/Bryan Adams or Police/Fergie is a single artist bill or not.

I presume that Bee Gees or ACDC(possibly Men at Work?!?!) had a big show prior to 3/84.

Countdown likely just got their info directly from the Police manager Miles Copeland. I doubt that audience counts from 1977 were as accurate as they had to be later.

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Old 01-28-2008, 07:05 PM   #434
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter
Proshot footage of Santana's set infront of 70,000 people at the Calder Park Raceway opening for Fleetwood Mac in November 1977 is on Youtube. Proof is now 1) video 2)FM tour history 3)a fansite 4) an aerial photo.

The argument now is whether Santana/FM is a festival bill and Police/Bryan Adams or Police/Fergie is a single artist bill or not.

I presume that Bee Gees or ACDC(possibly Men at Work?!?!) had a big show prior to 3/84.

Countdown likely just got their info directly from the Police manager Miles Copeland. I doubt that audience counts from 1977 were as accurate as they had to be later.

u2fp

There is NOTHING in the video, the fan website, or the photo that shows that the COUNTDOWN TV shows statement is inaccurate. If it was Miles Copeland statement, he would be saying that the Police show in Melbourne was the largest concert in history rather than just the largest by a foreign artist. A music show which does analysis on the music industry and states that the concert is the largest by a foreign artist in history is unlikely to be inaccurate. In any event, you have yet to show anything that would prove that statement is inaccurate. There is also not another show being listed as the largest show by a foreign artist in the history of Australia prior to 1984. I also would not trust a fan website for a crowd estimate.


Men At Work's first two releases sold a lot of albums, but they were not a stadium level act. AC/DC is from Australia so they are not a foreign artist. The Bee Gees may have done some big shows, but apparently nothing as large as what the Police did.

Again, this is not the only area in the world where the Police set an attendance record on the Synchronicity Tour. The Synchronicity Album and tour at the time was huge and its a bit mysterious why one would be so cynical about the facts reported for this tour.

Oh and in case you missed it, Auckland is in New Zealand, not Australia and Bryan Adams had yet to chart in either the top 20 singles or album charts in Australia when he supported the Police on the Synchronicity tour. Thats huge difference when one compares Santana having multiple multi-platinum albums and the Little River Band which itself had charted at the time.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:10 PM   #435
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Originally posted by Strongbow


Do you just go by what some fan website would claim in 2007, as opposed to a successful music telivision show in Australia?

Again, what evidence do you have that the Police show in Melbourne was not the largest show by a Foreign artist as of March 1984. If this was just hype they would have claimed it was the largest show in Australia ever, but there was obviously an Australian artist that had a larger attended show at the time. Countdown made its statement based on the facts they had available to them which is likely to more than what anyone here has at the time.

Rumours today is one of the best selling albums in history today, but that does not mean they had the largest attended show as of 1984. No one has shown any source that claims that Fleetwood Mac had any such record at any time.

In addition, when you only have one album or two albums that people have purchased, many do not run out to buy tickets to the show, at least not in numbers to facilitate a stadium show. But, if one brings in other big name artist, then the chances of drawing a stadium sized crowd go up.
Based on different reviews of shows from the Rumours tour, which mention capacity, it's safe to assume the Melbourne show was about the same amount of people. Case in point is a Billboard review of a show in Washington:

Quote:
Billboard Concert Review:
(JFK Stadium, July 29, 1978)
published in Billboard Magazine, August 12, 1978
(by Robert Ford)

Nearly 65,000 fans braved threatening skies July 29 to get a look at this wildly successful recording act at the hulking, antiquated football stadium best known as the home of the Army-Navy game. Unlike the Rolling Stones date held here earlier in the summer, the afternoon passed without major incident as the crowd was good-natured & orderly.

The band hit the stage about 4:20 & immediately brought the throng to its feet as it opened with some of its stronger up-tempo material.

Instrumentally the band was in rare form throughout, with drummer Mick Fleetwood giving a particularly strong performance. Fleetwood combines the creativity & taste of a veteran jazz drummer with the power & flair of a rocker. His solid time-keeping & spirited fills are one of the group's greatest yet most appreciated [sic] assets.

Unfortunately vocalist Stevie Nicks was in poor form as she seemed unable to get her voice to do the things it does on record. This was particularly disappointing to her fans since Nicks is the voice featured on some of the group's biggest hits such as 'Rhiannon' & 'Dreams.'

For the most part, the band's 17-song, 100-minute set was well paced with the group spreading its strongest material such as 'Listen to the Wind Blow,' 'Oh Daddy,' 'Say You Love Me' & 'You Make Loving Fun' throughout the show.

The set did get tedious toward the end, with 'You Can Go Your Own Way' being the only song in the last six that held the crowd's attention.
Now, that number was most likely an estimate, but it's a very good guage as to how well their shows were selling. And certainly a better indicator than a music show, where we have no idea where the information is coming from. It's certainly not official by any means. If you could come up with proof that it was the largest show back then, by all means do. Until you do, I don't consider a music show as official statistics.

Rumours was at number one on the Billboard charts for 31 weeks back in 1977, something unheard of by a rock act previously, and certainly not duplicated very much afterwards. The sales of that album were staggering, and catapulted that band into the stratosphere. Considering the self-titled album released two years previously was still on the charts two years later, I'd say they were successful enough by the Rumours tour to have that kind of demand.
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