The Police Tour '07 - Part 3 - Page 26 - U2 Feedback

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Old 12-19-2007, 01:24 AM   #376
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2FanPeter


The Police did better than VH and BS in Alberta, but the margin is not enormous. Also good to remember that The Copper did one night, while the others each played Calgary and Edmonton. I saw Bruce in Calgary and Vancouver in 2003 and both shows were VERY close to sell outs in the 360 format.

I mentioned that Bruce has most of his ticket s at one price range. Even that BS Detroit figure you posted showed that the average was only $10 less highest ticket price. I htink John Landau management like to consider his fans equal and they all pay the same, save for a couple rows of "cheap" tickets.

u2fp
The Police could have gotton a larger figure by playing multiple nights in an arena. When you only play one show, your unable to take advantage of people who go to multiple shows as well as those unable to go to a particular show or unwilling to travel and hour or more to another city to see a show. So Van Halen and Bruce Springsteen would have some natural built in advantages by playing arena's in two different cities as opposed to just playing one show in one city.



The Police
July 17, 2007
Auburn Hills, MI
The Palace Of Auburn Hills
Capacity: 19,342
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $2,069,428
Average Ticket Price: $106.99

Bruce Springsteen And The E-Street Band
November 5, 2007
Auburn Hills, MI
The Palace OF Auburn Hills
Capacity: 19,555
Attendance: 14,559
Gross: $1,231,928
Average Ticket Price: $84.62

John Landau tries to get Springsteen the maximum gross possible, but it appears that their prices this time around were a little high. The highest ticket price for the above Detroit Springsteen show was actually only $89 dollars which means the average was only $4 dollars below the highest price. What this shows is that there were a lot of unsold tickets at the low $55 dollar price behind the stage, tickets that the Police were able to sell at roughly the same price.

No matter how you stack it, The Police beat Springsteen in Detroit in both attendance and gross.
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:52 AM   #377
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Can you post a sold out Springsteen 2007 US arena concert boxscore. Since he only has 2 price tiers, one can figure out how many tickets are at each price level.

Your posted Detroit BS boxscore does NOT indicate unsold tickets were $55.

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Old 12-19-2007, 07:29 AM   #378
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Originally posted by Strongbow



I doubt the Van Halen show sold all 14,261 tickets in the first hour of sale for Boston, as there were probably many tickets held back. The first Van Halen show in Philadelphia was also soldout initially, but more tickets showed up later on and you could buy tickets before show time.

As I previously stated the production releases in Boston for VH were very limited. There were some as there are with every show, but they were snapped up quickly. It wasn't a situation where 2,000 tix were held and later released and readily available like what you describe for Philly.

You like to post your numbers, which is fine, but when I make a statement to phanan that VH in Boston was a "tougher ticket" than the Police show 2 weeks later, showing me that the Police had a higher gross due to higher tix prices does not disprove me. Call it wild speculation if you like, but it was significantly easier to obtain a ticket to see the Police show than the VH show, the Police never were a dead sell out on Ticketmaster, Van Halen was a dead sell out within an hour and had only sporadic production releases.


So now lets move on, since concert gross is your area of expertise, lets actually "wildly speculate"...do you think if Led Zeppelin were to launch a full scale tour next year, they would have a shot at landing at or near the top of all time gross?
Obviously it would require an extensive tour, which may not happen even if they do tour, but I imagine that they would have prices higher than the Police this time out, and that the demand would be enormous, making the only factor in keeping them away from the top of the list a lack of desire to be on the road for a full year or more as all the top grossing tours in the past.
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Old 12-19-2007, 07:40 AM   #379
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Originally posted by Strongbow



The grand total from the "Rising Tour" was $221 million dollars, which at the time made it the 4th highest grossing tour of all time with the Rolling Stones, the only artist to have grossed more on the road. But, fastfoward four years, and the "Rising Tour" has been pushed back to #7 because of 3 tours by U2, The Rolling Stones, and The Police tour which is still on going, all of which have outgrossed the "Rising Tour" by a considerable margin.

Still, those are probably the only artist that can beat Springsteen on the road.
Another intersting thing would be to adjust numbers for inflation, like you always hear that adjusted for inflation, Gone With the Wind would be the top grossing movie. Its less of an exact science with concerts as tix prices vary by artist unlike movies where admission is the same for an Oscar winner as they are for Ernest Goes White Water Rafting in Backwoods Alabama, but one wonders how some older tours might stack up.
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Old 12-19-2007, 04:50 PM   #380
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow
Once the promoter has put the tickets on sale, they cannot be dropped, so no, there is no voodoo economics going on here. The promoter can shoot for a smaller capacity and try to sell that out initially, and then add more seats carefully based on demand, but you can't just take back the seats you have already put on sale. Otherwise, the Hamburg show above would be listed as a sellout, and so would every U2 POPMART show.


What happens when tickets have to be removed from sale because of a production change?

Quote:
I doubt the Van Halen show sold all 14,261 tickets in the first hour of sale for Boston, as there were probably many tickets held back. The first Van Halen show in Philadelphia was also soldout initially, but more tickets showed up later on and you could buy tickets before show time.
Your allowed to say VH held ticket back for Boston, but you discount a the same claiim for Fenway?

Quote:
I've only responded with the actual facts of the tour(as opposed to total speculation and wild assertions) which completely refute this idea by you that demand for the tour was overstated.
Show proof that tickets were held back for Halen Boston?

[/QUOTE]Don't forget, the principle reason Van Halen is using a backdrop on this tour is because they want to avoid the difficulty of selling seats behind the stage. U2's ZOO TV tour on the indoor part had more displays and other things than most tours, yet they found away to hang stuff from the ceiling or put screens in places that it would not obstruct views.
[/QUOTE]

Maybe Hannah Montana or Van Halen choose not to have rear stage? Definitely too much to ask someone on their first tour to adapt their show to rear stage balcony seats. Hannah woudl still be #1 on scalper sights even if they did pu all seats in an arena onsale.

As for Van Halen, they have NEVER had rear tickets with ANY of their lead singers. Even when they had crazy attendance and demand in 1984 or the late 80's. I can tell they added side stage tickets because there is no side screens available, can't see the main screen and had slight obstructed views because of the walkways.

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Old 12-19-2007, 05:22 PM   #381
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Originally posted by Strongbow


[Hewson's claim the Police Fenway was a forced sellout]

You don't have any figures to show how many tickets were released later after the on sale date, so the above is just pure speculation and is something that would apply to any artist making the issue essentially irrelevant.
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Old 12-19-2007, 05:57 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow
June 15, 2007
Las Vegas, NV
MGM Grand Garden Arena
Capacity: 16,165
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $2,863,954
Average Ticket Price: $177.17

June 20, 2007
Los Angeles, CA
Staples Center
Capacity: 17,036
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $2,656,145
Average Ticket Price: $155.91

July 16, 2007
Cleveland, OH
Quicken Loans Arena
Capacity: 18,881
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,885,040
Average Ticket Price: $99.84

July 22 & 23, 2007
Toronto, ON
Air Canada Centre
Capacity: 38,031
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $4,456,636 USD
Average Ticket Price: $117.18 USD

July 25 & 26, 2007
Montreal, QC
Bell Centre
Capacity: 41,275
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $4,571,063 USD
Average Ticket Price: $110.75 USD

August 1, 3, 2007
New York City, NY
Madison Square Garden
Capacity: 37,487
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $4,753,610
Average Ticket Price: $126.81

August 29,30, 2007
Stockholm, Sweden
Globe Arena
Capacity: 24,286
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $2,098,632
Average Ticket Price: $86.41

September 8, 9, 2007
London, United Kingdom
Twickenham Stadium
Capacity: 104,417
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $15,369,280
Average Ticket Price: $147.19

October 20, 2007
London, United Kingdom
Wembley Arena
Capacity: 11,301
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,852,912
Average Ticket Price: $163.96

October 31, November 2, 2007
New York City, NY
Madison Square Garden
Capacity: 34,961
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $4,530,450
Average Ticket Price: $129.59

November 8, 9, 2007
Toronto, ON
Air Canada Centre
Capacity: 31,286
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $3,828,654
Average Ticket Price: $122.38

November 12, 2007
Montreal, QC
Bell Centre
Capacity: 12,615
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,419,151
Average Ticket Price: $112.50
Toronto x 2 summer - 38,031($4.4mil)
Toronto x 2 fall - 31,216($3.8m)

Why the attendance/gross difference for Toronto?

Montreal summer x 2 - 41,275($4.5m)
Montreal fall - 12,615($1.4m)

Why the attendance/gross difference for Montreal? 8,000 unused seats for "sold out" arena show?

Stockholm $ average - $86.41
Wembley arena $ average - $166.93

Why the average pricing difference that's double in once city compared to another?

MSG x 2 summer - 37,487(4.7m)
MSG x 2 fall - 34,961($4.5m)

2,500 seats curtained off in MSG?

Vegas $ Average - $177.17
LA Staples $ average - $155.91
Cleveland $ Average $99.84

Why so much variety in the ticket $ averages?

What is the total attandance/ticket average/gross for U2 2005 European leg and how does it compare to The Police totals?

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Old 12-19-2007, 08:02 PM   #383
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Originally posted by Hewson
As I previously stated the production releases in Boston for VH were very limited. There were some as there are with every show, but they were snapped up quickly. It wasn't a situation where 2,000 tix were held and later released and readily available like what you describe for Philly.

You like to post your numbers, which is fine, but when I make a statement to phanan that VH in Boston was a "tougher ticket" than the Police show 2 weeks later, showing me that the Police had a higher gross due to higher tix prices does not disprove me. Call it wild speculation if you like, but it was significantly easier to obtain a ticket to see the Police show than the VH show, the Police never were a dead sell out on Ticketmaster, Van Halen was a dead sell out within an hour and had only sporadic production releases.


So now lets move on, since concert gross is your area of expertise, lets actually "wildly speculate"...do you think if Led Zeppelin were to launch a full scale tour next year, they would have a shot at landing at or near the top of all time gross?
Obviously it would require an extensive tour, which may not happen even if they do tour, but I imagine that they would have prices higher than the Police this time out, and that the demand would be enormous, making the only factor in keeping them away from the top of the list a lack of desire to be on the road for a full year or more as all the top grossing tours in the past.
Well, the most importanting thing to remember with comparing The Police in Boston vs. Van Halen in Boston is the TOTAL numbers. When you look at the total numbers, the Police have a gross 6 times Van Halen's and attendance 6 times Van Halen in Boston.

I think Zeppelin would indeed have a shot at the Stones $558 million record, but this is Zeppelin without John Bonham and that will have an impact. Its been 28 years since they last toured, and being away for so long is not always a benefit. Zeppelin has much stronger sales in the United States than elsewhere, so the numbers just in the United States should be huge. Much of Europe, South America, Down Under, and Japan is a question mark. They will do very well there, but I'm not sure if it will be on the level of the Stones, U2, or even the latest Police tour. Despite that, overall, they definitely have a chance given how well they will do in North America.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:09 PM   #384
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Originally posted by Hewson
Another intersting thing would be to adjust numbers for inflation, like you always hear that adjusted for inflation, Gone With the Wind would be the top grossing movie. Its less of an exact science with concerts as tix prices vary by artist unlike movies where admission is the same for an Oscar winner as they are for Ernest Goes White Water Rafting in Backwoods Alabama, but one wonders how some older tours might stack up.
You have to be careful here because there is concert ticket price inflation independent of general dollar inflation, although most of that occured in the 1990s and has evened out since 2000. Its accurate to compare any tours within 5 years of each other, but outside that time frame, it gets more difficult to compare as the years between two different tours increase.

In any event, general dollar inflation in recent years has been very low, and Bruce Springsteen's figure from 2003 of $221 million dollars would only be $246 million dollars in 2007.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:24 PM   #385
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter


What happens when tickets have to be removed from sale because of a production change?



Your allowed to say VH held ticket back for Boston, but you discount a the same claiim for Fenway?



Show proof that tickets were held back for Halen Boston?

Don't forget, the principle reason Van Halen is using a backdrop on this tour is because they want to avoid the difficulty of selling seats behind the stage. U2's ZOO TV tour on the indoor part had more displays and other things than most tours, yet they found away to hang stuff from the ceiling or put screens in places that it would not obstruct views. [/QUOTE]

Maybe Hannah Montana or Van Halen choose not to have rear stage? Definitely too much to ask someone on their first tour to adapt their show to rear stage balcony seats. Hannah woudl still be #1 on scalper sights even if they did pu all seats in an arena onsale.

As for Van Halen, they have NEVER had rear tickets with ANY of their lead singers. Even when they had crazy attendance and demand in 1984 or the late 80's. I can tell they added side stage tickets because there is no side screens available, can't see the main screen and had slight obstructed views because of the walkways.

u2fp [/B][/QUOTE]

The promoter only puts on sale tickets at first that would be uneffected by any production changes. Production changes usually result in more seats becoming available for sale.

Never discounted the fact that tickets were held back at Fenway Park for The Police since this happens at just about every concert these days. What I don't believe though is that 10,000 or 20,000 tickets were held back at each Fenway Park concert meaning the Police initially only had to sale 15,000 to 25,000 to get an initial sellout. Either way, we don't know because such figures are not available.

If Hannah Montana made the same number of tickets available as The Police and increased her ticket prices, she would not still be the #1 ticket reseller. Its easier to get to the top of the secondary ticket resell market when your tickets are low in price, and the number of tickets available is much smaller than those seeking to see the show. Both factors increase scalping and demand for the tickets in the secondary market.

The fact that Van Halen has not used rear stage before just goes to show that they do not have nearly the demand for them, that many people may think. One way to sellout multiple arena's in one city is to not go 360, but set up in a 270 configeration which is what Van Halen does.

If Van Halen went for in the round in say Philadelphia on this tour, they would have only done one show there as opposed to two. Two shows in the round at Wacovia Center can hold almost 39,000 people, yet the Van Halen shows only had 28,000 and these shows were not sellouts even in the reduced configeration although they did sellout all the tickets they put on sale.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:29 PM   #386
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Well, the most importanting thing to remember with comparing The Police in Boston vs. Van Halen in Boston is the TOTAL numbers. When you look at the total numbers, the Police have a gross 6 times Van Halen's and attendance 6 times Van Halen in Boston.
Unless you add in VH's Nov 6 Worcester date, or maybe their upcoming Providence and Manchester dates.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:49 PM   #387
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Unless you add in VH's Nov 6 Worcester date, or maybe their upcoming Providence and Manchester dates.
Well, if you want to talk about attendance in greater New England as opposed to just Boston, then that would be the case but then you would also have to add the Police stadium show in Conn. where they played to 30,000 people, roughly what the combined total would be for Van Halen at Worcester, Providence, Manchester dates.

Your still looking at figures that have The Police grossing 3 times of what Van Halen did or is doing, and attendance that is nearly 3 times of what Van Halen has done.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:53 PM   #388
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[
Quote:
Toronto x 2 summer - 38,031($4.4mil)
Quote:
Toronto x 2 fall - 31,216($3.8m)
Quote:
Why the attendance/gross difference for Toronto?
The attendance/gross difference results from the fact that the Police had already played the Toronto market and the level of demand left was not enough to fill the entire capacity of two more shows although they did come close.

Quote:
Montreal summer x 2 - 41,275($4.5m)
Quote:
Montreal fall - 12,615($1.4m)
Quote:
Why the attendance/gross difference for Montreal? 8,000 unused seats for "sold out" arena show?
Same reason, after selling out two shows, there was only enough demand in Montreal left for a show at 2/3s capacity of the venue. As has been so often explained "SELLOUT" in the business refers to the selling of all tickets put on sale, NOT the selling of every potential seat in the venue!


Quote:
Stockholm $ average - $86.41
Quote:
Wembley arena $ average - $166.93
Quote:
Why the average pricing difference that's double in once city compared to another?
Higher demand in one market results in an increase in price in that market.


Why so much variety in the ticket $ averages?

Because each market will often have different levels of demand for the artist in question which impacts the average ticket price.



Quote:
What is the total attandance/ticket average/gross for U2 2005 European leg and how does it compare to The Police totals?
U2 did $155 million dollars in gross from 32 shows, with 1.9 million in attendance and average ticket price of $78 dollars.

The average Police ticket price in Europe so far has been $114, and the gross is nearly $100 million dollars from 22 shows with nearly 900,000 in attendance. The Police had to postpone several European shows and are in the process of adding others, so their European totals will not be in for a while.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:22 PM   #389
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Well, if you want to talk about attendance in greater New England as opposed to just Boston, then that would be the case but then you would also have to add the Police stadium show in Conn. where they played to 30,000 people, roughly what the combined total would be for Van Halen at Worcester, Providence, Manchester dates.

Your still looking at figures that have The Police grossing 3 times of what Van Halen did or is doing, and attendance that is nearly 3 times of what Van Halen has done.
Well then you'd also have to add in Vh's Oct 5th CT date and their upcoming Ct date as well.
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:26 AM   #390
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Well then you'd also have to add in Vh's Oct 5th CT date and their upcoming Ct date as well.
..... and the result will still be the same. The Police are way ahead of Van Halen in attendance and gross in New England. The Police are way ahead of Van Halen in attendance and gross for North America, the only market that Van Halen even had a chance of competing against the Police prior to the start of the two tours. It will be interesting to see what Van Halen can do beyond North America since they were able to do so little in the past. With David Lee Roth, there should be some more interest generated, but at the end of the day, Van Halen is still going to get more than 80% of their gross and attendance from North America.
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