The Police Tour '07 - Part 3 - Page 25 - U2 Feedback

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Old 12-18-2007, 06:23 PM   #361
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Originally posted by phanan


Well, it varies by location as well. In Boston, I can definitely tell you that the demand for The Police was nowhere near that of U2 or Springsteen. Of course, the ticket prices probably had something to do with that as well.
I would agree that demand for U2 and Springsteen is more in Boston than it is for the Police, but The Police are indeed competitive with them as the following results show:

U2 in Boston


May 24, 26, 28, 2005
Boston, MA
FleetCenter
Capacity: 51,658
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $5,071,565
Average Ticket Price: $98.18

October 3-4, 2005
Boston, MA
TD BankNorth Garden
Capacity: 34,488
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $3,381,429
Average Ticket Price: $98.05

December 4-5, 2005
Boston, MA
TD BankNorth Garden
Capacity: 34,583
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $3,400,861
Average Ticket Price: $98.34

BOSTON U2 VERTIGO TOTAL:
Capacity: 120,729
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $11,853,855
Average Ticket Price: $98.19







The Police in Boston

July 28 & 29, 2007
Boston, MA
Fenway Park
Capacity: 67,154
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $7,644,400
Average Ticket Price: $113.83

November 11, 2007
Boston, MA
TD BankNorth Garden
Capacity: 14,256
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,804,535
Average Ticket Price: $126.58

BOSTON Police tour TOTAL:
Capacity: 81,410
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $9,448,935
Average Ticket Price: $116.07



Another factor impacting these Boston shows to some degree are shows in Hartford. The Police played a stadium show there while U2 did just one arena show there.

The fact of the matter is, name just about any city outside the North East of the United States, and the Police would easily beat Bruce Springsteen and would either be competitive or beat U2. Overall, Springsteen did $221 million dollars in Gross on his last tour with the E-Street Band. U2 did $389 million dollars on the Vertigo Tour. The Police already have roughly $250 million dollars grossed, and will likely finish out at $400 million dollars next summer. Just slightly above U2 and nearly double that of Springsteen.
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Old 12-18-2007, 06:31 PM   #362
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so when are we going to get that postponed date for philly?!
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Old 12-18-2007, 06:44 PM   #363
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Originally posted by Hewson
The Van Halen show Oct 30 was a much tougher ticket than the Police 12 days later at the Garden in fact. The fact that the Police had already played Fenway had a lot of bearing on that, they absolutely flooded the market in Boston much like the Stones after playing Fenway in 2005 coming back to the Garden in Jan 2006 and never coming close to selling out.
Well not exactly. Here are Van Halen's results for their only show in Boston at this point vs the one Police concert in November.

Van Halen
October 30, 2007
Boston, MA
TD BankNorth Garden
Capacity: 14,261
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,501,122
Average Ticket Price: $105.26


The Police
November 11, 2007
Boston, MA
TD BankNorth Garden
Capacity: 14,256
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,804,535
Average Ticket Price: $126.58



Van Halen's totals in Boston:
Capacity: 14,261
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,501,122
Average Ticket Price: $105.26

Police totals in Boston:
Capacity: 81,410
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $9,448,935
Average Ticket Price: $116.07


Despite the fact that the Police had already played 2 stadium shows in the summer in Boston, their arena show in Boston still beat out Van Halen's arena show by over $300,000 in gross!
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Old 12-18-2007, 06:52 PM   #364
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter
would the 2007 Van Halen boxscores include the private/corporate and secret 3rd show they did in Toronto in November?

Someone compared Police/Bruce in Detroit. I think this is what happened after Bruce played the political game in 2004. Some of his audience checked out for awhile.



u2fp
Springsteens last tour with the E-Street band pulled in $221 million dollars worldwide. The Police have already done $250 million dollars in just 6 months and will likely be at $400 million dollars by the end of Summer 2008, nearly double Springsteen and the E-Street Band's largest gross which was for their Rising Tour in 2002-2003. Take any city around the world and its most likely The Police would beat Springsteen and The E-Street Band, unless the city is Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Boston, New York City. Those are the only 5 cities where Springsteen would win out, but Springsteen would probably beat anyone in those 5 cities do to his unusually high popularity in the Northeastern section of the United States.

As for Van Halen, the Boxscores only show the two official Toronto shows, not the "private/corporate secret 3rd show".
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Old 12-18-2007, 06:59 PM   #365
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Originally posted by EdgeIsTooSexy
so when are we going to get that postponed date for philly?!

Hopefully in the March to May period of 2008. Its likely The Police would do return dates on the west coast of the United States after they play Hawaii and move east across North America hitting any remaining markets small and large where there is remaining demand. Some cities like Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, Kansas City, Salt Lake City, Indianapolis, Columbus, Portland, Sacramento, Oklahoma City, and Milwaukee have not been played yet at all. Nothings for sure yet though, and there may not be any announcement or confirmation until February.
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Old 12-18-2007, 07:17 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow


Well not exactly. Here are Van Halen's results for their only show in Boston at this point vs the one Police concert in November.

Van Halen
October 30, 2007
Boston, MA
TD BankNorth Garden
Capacity: 14,261
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,501,122
Average Ticket Price: $105.26


The Police
November 11, 2007
Boston, MA
TD BankNorth Garden
Capacity: 14,256
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,804,535
Average Ticket Price: $126.58



Van Halen's totals in Boston:
Capacity: 14,261
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $1,501,122
Average Ticket Price: $105.26

Police totals in Boston:
Capacity: 81,410
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $9,448,935
Average Ticket Price: $116.07


Despite the fact that the Police had already played 2 stadium shows in the summer in Boston, their arena show in Boston still beat out Van Halen's arena show by over $300,000 in gross!
Chief Jay...where did I say Van Halen outgrossed the Police at the Garden?? Yeah I can't find it either.

I said it was a "tougher ticket" and it was...there were always Police tickets available on Ticketmaster...despite the promoter's listing of the show of "sold out" it was never a true dead sell out. Van Halen on the other hand sold out completely in less than an hour, and there were very few releases (I was monitoring that carefully as thats how I got my seats, since I was waiting for excellent seats). The Police are obviously going to gross more with an average ticket price thats 21 dollars higher. I did pretty well at math in school, so your box office receipts wizardry can't fool me . Comparing gross dollars is not exactly a foolproof guage of demand my friend.

Your Springsteen examples above illustrate this as Springsteen's ticket prices are kept significantly lower than other artists of similar stature, so his gross revenue won't ever rival the $tones or Police because instead of $450 or $225, his top ticket is $95 this tour and was less previously. Gouging your fans for every last nickel (the Gene Simmons principle) doesn't mean you're the best.
Its like arguing that Roger Clemens was baseball's best pitcher in 2007 because he had the highest salary.


ETA: A better guage of demand is tix sold, not gross, and by your numbers, VH outdrew the Police at the Garden by 5, as I went in a group of 6, my friends and I must be responsible for Eddie and Dave being more popular in Boston this fall than Sting and Stewie...how wonderful.
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Old 12-18-2007, 07:23 PM   #367
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow
As the ticket reseller, ticketsnow.com has stated, The Police tour was the hottest resell ticket of 2007. Many scalpers still made plenty of money selling tickets for even higher prices. So even when you look at the secondary ticket market which is not an accurate way at looking at concert success, the Police overall did very well for many people. Sure, many people got burned, but thats no different than any tour where tickets are priced at their correct market value.
StubHub says they had the most success with Hannah Montana/Miley Cyrus.

As for The Police, imagine how successful their tour and secondary ticket sales would be if they actually changed their setlists!!!! Of their 4 shows in one venue in Toronto serious fans only got to see one alternate song.

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Old 12-18-2007, 08:13 PM   #368
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Originally posted by Hewson
Chief Jay...where did I say Van Halen outgrossed the Police at the Garden?? Yeah I can't find it either.

I said it was a "tougher ticket" and it was...there were always Police tickets available on Ticketmaster...despite the promoter's listing of the show of "sold out" it was never a true dead sell out. Van Halen on the other hand sold out completely in less than an hour, and there were very few releases (I was monitoring that carefully as thats how I got my seats, since I was waiting for excellent seats). The Police are obviously going to gross more with an average ticket price thats 21 dollars higher. I did pretty well at math in school, so your box office receipts wizardry can't fool me . Comparing gross dollars is not exactly a foolproof guage of demand my friend.

Your Springsteen examples above illustrate this as Springsteen's ticket prices are kept significantly lower than other artists of similar stature, so his gross revenue won't ever rival the $tones or Police because instead of $450 or $225, his top ticket is $95 this tour and was less previously. Gouging your fans for every last nickel (the Gene Simmons principle) doesn't mean you're the best.
Its like arguing that Roger Clemens was baseball's best pitcher in 2007 because he had the highest salary.


ETA: A better guage of demand is tix sold, not gross, and by your numbers, VH outdrew the Police at the Garden by 5, as I went in a group of 6, my friends and I must be responsible for Eddie and Dave being more popular in Boston this fall than Sting and Stewie...how wonderful.
The total Police gross in Boston in 2007 is 6 times that of Van Halen. The total Police attendance in Boston in 2007 is also nearly 6 times that of Van Halen.

I'm happy you at least had math in school, but did you take economics? The best gauge of demand is GROSS, which is why Billboard magazine ranks the tours by GROSS as opposed to attendance. Anyone can charge a lower ticket price in order to make sure all tickets are sold. But the majority of artist charge market value for their tickets whether its U2, Springsteen, The Police, Metallica, AC/DC, Van Halen, etc. Price has a heavy impact on attendance, but what the artist are trying to do is achieve the maximum gross. Charge too much, and you will drive people away and not be able to achieve the maximum gross figure. Charge too little, and you will indeed sell every seat, but lose a considerable amount of money in the process and invite a huge numbers of scalpers into the process looking to make and easy buck on underpriced tickets. In general, the more in demand the artist, the higher the average ticket price will be.

Van Halen did not sellout completely in less than an hour because the max capacity of the venue is 17,500 and neither did The Police. Van Halen has a backdrop that would prevent selling all the seats behind the stage while the Police at least initially were hoping to fill the entire arena. In any event, The Police had already played to 67,000 people at two shows just 3 months earlier. Yet, the Police still outgrossed Van Halen with their arena show 3 months later.



Springsteen is charging what he is worth in the market. Several dozen of his shows recently reported to boxscore are not completely selling out. If anything, that shows that Springsteen may actually be charging too much based on demand for him in 2007.

Were talking about who is most popular on the road and that is determined by Gross, which attendance helps to determine. Tickets priced at the correct market value will help achieve the maximum gross. Tickets priced too high, or too low will fail to do that.

Tickets sold as opposed to gross is not used as the gauge, because any popular artist can fill the seats with underpriced tickets. The gauge is gross, because it involves both ticket price and attendance.

But even if we used attendance as the main gauge, The Police would still beat Springsteen in almost every market around the world with the exception of the Northeastern United States. The Police have beaten Van Halen in attendance in every market the two bands have both played. The Police Tour 2007 is the top ticket selling tour of the year.
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:19 PM   #369
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Originally posted by U2FanPeter


StubHub says they had the most success with Hannah Montana/Miley Cyrus.

As for The Police, imagine how successful their tour and secondary ticket sales would be if they actually changed their setlists!!!! Of their 4 shows in one venue in Toronto serious fans only got to see one alternate song.

u2fp
Well, at least until the Hannah Montanna tour came on, The Police were the #1 selling artist at most of these ticket resellers. But again, its not an accurate measure of who is most popular on the touring circuit. You only get an accurate picture of that from the official boxoffice results. If Hannah Montanna were playing in the round in arena's like The Police did on most dates as well as playing stadiums, her numbers in the secondary market would not be as high as The Police. Instead, she is playing only arena's at reduced capacity levels.
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Old 12-18-2007, 09:01 PM   #370
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Originally posted by Strongbow


Van Halen did not sellout completely in less than an hour because the max capacity of the venue is 17,500 and neither did The Police. Van Halen has a backdrop that would prevent selling all the seats behind the stage while the Police at least initially were hoping to fill the entire arena. In any event, The Police had already played to 67,000 people at two shows just 3 months earlier. Yet, the Police still outgrossed Van Halen with their arena show 3 months later.
.
Because of VH's staging, the rear seats were never put on sale. They sold every available ticket in less than an hour. Th Police as you point out attempted to sell the entire arena, and the promoter later dropped the 3,000 or so rear seats from the capacity so the show coud be listed as a sellout. I believe thats what Ronny Ray Gun would call voodoo Economics.
I know plenty about economics, never argued the Police didn't have the year's highest gross, I'm citing specific local examples of overstated demand for varying reasons, nothing more and you respond every time by copying and pasting box office receipts. You've seen sporting events where 6,000 people show up in a 18,000 seat arena cause theteam isin last place, yet the season ticket base is 14,000 so the paid attendance figure can be listed at more than double the actual attendance right? Promoters love to label their shows "sold out" thats how they get the next artist to sign on, so when you have a show thats a slow seller, you play tricks like lowering the officila capacity from 17,600 to 14,200 like the Plice in November in Boston or you suddenly start selling $450 field seats at Fenway for $165 like the Stones did in 2005 (and believe me I know whereof I speak on this, I took advantage).
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Old 12-18-2007, 09:49 PM   #371
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Originally posted by Strongbow
But even if we used attendance as the main gauge, The Police would still beat Springsteen in almost every market around the world with the exception of the Northeastern United States. The Police have beaten Van Halen in attendance in every market the two bands have both played. The Police Tour 2007 is the top ticket selling tour of the year.
I'm curious of the Alberta market comparing Police/VH/Springsteen(2003) as the Police had 20,000 empty seats at the Edmonton stadium show.

BTW, nearly all Springsteen tickets are are at one price tier. This hurts him as many nosebleed seats are difficult to sell. This needs to be considered when Police and VH have a good number of tickets available for $60.

BTW, did every arena Police show sell out?

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Old 12-18-2007, 10:11 PM   #372
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I'm curious of the Alberta market comparing Police/VH/Springsteen(2003) as the Police had 20,000 empty seats at the Edmonton stadium show.

The 60,000+ seat stadium was sold out for the Police at 29,592 seats:

Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow





June 2, 2007
Edmonton, AB
Commonwealth Stadium
Capacity: 29,592
Attendance: Sold Out
Gross: $3,216,118 USD
Average Ticket Price: $108.68 USD


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Old 12-18-2007, 10:22 PM   #373
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Because of VH's staging, the rear seats were never put on sale. They sold every available ticket in less than an hour. Th Police as you point out attempted to sell the entire arena, and the promoter later dropped the 3,000 or so rear seats from the capacity so the show coud be listed as a sellout. I believe thats what Ronny Ray Gun would call voodoo Economics.
I know plenty about economics, never argued the Police didn't have the year's highest gross, I'm citing specific local examples of overstated demand for varying reasons, nothing more and you respond every time by copying and pasting box office receipts. You've seen sporting events where 6,000 people show up in a 18,000 seat arena cause theteam isin last place, yet the season ticket base is 14,000 so the paid attendance figure can be listed at more than double the actual attendance right? Promoters love to label their shows "sold out" thats how they get the next artist to sign on, so when you have a show thats a slow seller, you play tricks like lowering the officila capacity from 17,600 to 14,200 like the Plice in November in Boston or you suddenly start selling $450 field seats at Fenway for $165 like the Stones did in 2005 (and believe me I know whereof I speak on this, I took advantage).

The Police wanted to sale the entire arena in Boston, but they never did put the rear stage tickets on sale. If they had, they would still be listed in the capacity. The promoter initially sets a conservative target for the band if he is unsure whether the band can sellout the entire venue. Initially, The Police may have put 10,000 or 12,000 on sale. As those numbers were passed, smaller numbers of tickets were put on sale based on the rate they were selling. The Police got to 14,256 by the day of the show, and "soldout" in the since that every ticket put on sale was sold.

But, not every show The Police have played in 2007 has soldout in the since that every ticket that was put out for sale was sold. There were three that did not and here is one big example. The show is in Hamburg Germany:

September 11, 2007
Hamburg, Germany
AOL ARENA
Capacity: 34,596
Attendance: 29,150
Gross: $3,191,128
Average Ticket Price: $109.47

The AOL ARENA in Hamburg Germany actually has a max capacity of 50,000 for concerts. Arthur Fogul's conservative estimate was that the band could play to 34,596 people which is the total for a certain number of sections in the stands and on the field. But, it turns out that demand in Hamburg was much lower than expected and by show time, The Police had sold 29,150 tickets, a little more than 5,000 tickets short of selling all the tickets that had been put on sale.

Once the promoter has put the tickets on sale, they cannot be dropped, so no, there is no voodoo economics going on here. The promoter can shoot for a smaller capacity and try to sell that out initially, and then add more seats carefully based on demand, but you can't just take back the seats you have already put on sale. Otherwise, the Hamburg show above would be listed as a sellout, and so would every U2 POPMART show.

I doubt the Van Halen show sold all 14,261 tickets in the first hour of sale for Boston, as there were probably many tickets held back. The first Van Halen show in Philadelphia was also soldout initially, but more tickets showed up later on and you could buy tickets before show time.


I've only responded with the actual facts of the tour(as opposed to total speculation and wild assertions) which completely refute this idea by you that demand for the tour was overstated. That the cops had "made a mistake" in booking stadiums around the country based on what happened in Fenway Park. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is one of the most successful tours in history playing stadiums and arena's in the round usually, and selling most of them out at high average ticket prices.

Don't forget, the principle reason Van Halen is using a backdrop on this tour is because they want to avoid the difficulty of selling seats behind the stage. U2's ZOO TV tour on the indoor part had more displays and other things than most tours, yet they found away to hang stuff from the ceiling or put screens in places that it would not obstruct views.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:51 PM   #374
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I'm curious of the Alberta market comparing Police/VH/Springsteen(2003) as the Police had 20,000 empty seats at the Edmonton stadium show.

BTW, nearly all Springsteen tickets are are at one price tier. This hurts him as many nosebleed seats are difficult to sell. This needs to be considered when Police and VH have a good number of tickets available for $60.

BTW, did every arena Police show sell out?

u2fp
I'd have to look that one up. In general, in 2003, Springsteen did extremely well East of the Mississippi and North of the Mason Dixon line. Outside of that area, he struggled to sell tickets in many venues. For example, his Dodger Stadium show peaked out at 42,000 tickets sold, which took place in the second largest market in the country. Not bad by any stretch of the imagination, but not really U2/Stones/Police territory either.

The promoter, which again is Live Nation which is Arthur Fogal's company and is handling the Police tour as well would not do anything that would hurt his artist attempts to sellout the arena. Again, although I don't know for sure, I think most of these Springsteen shows that failed to sellout, failed to sell seats that were behind the stage at the lower price level. But the Police sold these seats at the same price level at the shows being compared. Seats behind the stage are very difficult to sale, even when they are at reduced price. I understand the point your making, but I don't think it was a factor in these Springsteen shows not selling out. I'm sure the vast majority if not all the 5,000 tickets not sold at that Detroit show for Springsteen came from tickets that were behind the stage.


Every Arena Police show has "soldout" so far on the tour in the sense that every ticket put on sale, has been sold. For Bruce Springsteen though, that has not been the case, although he is sometimes only a few hundred tickets away from selling all the tickets that were put on sale in these arena's.

The grand total from the "Rising Tour" was $221 million dollars, which at the time made it the 4th highest grossing tour of all time with the Rolling Stones, the only artist to have grossed more on the road. But, fastfoward four years, and the "Rising Tour" has been pushed back to #7 because of 3 tours by U2, The Rolling Stones, and The Police tour which is still on going, all of which have outgrossed the "Rising Tour" by a considerable margin.

Still, those are probably the only artist that can beat Springsteen on the road.
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:30 PM   #375
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I'd have to look that one up. In general, in 2003, Springsteen did extremely well East of the Mississippi and North of the Mason Dixon line. Outside of that area, he struggled to sell tickets in many venues. For example, his Dodger Stadium show peaked out at 42,000 tickets sold, which took place in the second largest market in the country. Not bad by any stretch of the imagination, but not really U2/Stones/Police territory either.

The promoter, which again is Live Nation which is Arthur Fogal's company and is handling the Police tour as well would not do anything that would hurt his artist attempts to sellout the arena. Again, although I don't know for sure, I think most of these Springsteen shows that failed to sellout, failed to sell seats that were behind the stage at the lower price level. But the Police sold these seats at the same price level at the shows being compared. Seats behind the stage are very difficult to sale, even when they are at reduced price. I understand the point your making, but I don't think it was a factor in these Springsteen shows not selling out. I'm sure the vast majority if not all the 5,000 tickets not sold at that Detroit show for Springsteen came from tickets that were behind the stage.


Every Arena Police show has "soldout" so far on the tour in the sense that every ticket put on sale, has been sold. For Bruce Springsteen though, that has not been the case, although he is sometimes only a few hundred tickets away from selling all the tickets that were put on sale in these arena's.

The grand total from the "Rising Tour" was $221 million dollars, which at the time made it the 4th highest grossing tour of all time with the Rolling Stones, the only artist to have grossed more on the road. But, fastfoward four years, and the "Rising Tour" has been pushed back to #7 because of 3 tours by U2, The Rolling Stones, and The Police tour which is still on going, all of which have outgrossed the "Rising Tour" by a considerable margin.

Still, those are probably the only artist that can beat Springsteen on the road.
The Police did better than VH and BS in Alberta, but the margin is not enormous. Also good to remember that The Copper did one night, while the others each played Calgary and Edmonton. I saw Bruce in Calgary and Vancouver in 2003 and both shows were VERY close to sell outs in the 360 format.

I mentioned that Bruce has most of his ticket s at one price range. Even that BS Detroit figure you posted showed that the average was only $10 less highest ticket price. I htink John Landau management like to consider his fans equal and they all pay the same, save for a couple rows of "cheap" tickets.

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