The National (Part 2) - High Violet & Tour

[indra]

It was his dancing that did it

Yep, the awkward white man dance will do it every time!

 

[iron yuppie]

You saw an awesome set, IWB. The love for Sad Songs is a great development.

 

[cobl04]

Yep, the awkward white man dance will do it every time!

I still don't like Boxer much though

 

[nielsgov]

Have you heard Sad Songs?

 

[cobl04]

Still no. Must do that very soon.

 

[nielsgov]

I was just asking because that's the only album I like less than Boxer. It's still good though.

 

[LemonMelon]

You saw an awesome set, IWB. The love for Sad Songs is a great development.

I'd really enjoy a more visceral, aggressive record from the National at this point, something in the vein of Sad Songs. I mean, sure, High Violet is a solid set of songs, but it's a little lackadaisical coming from a band who thrives on the unexpected live. I would love for them to tap into that energy next time.

Or, in contrast, go in a more baroque direction a la Exile Vilify, with lots of strings. Something spare, intimate and haunting.

 

[Imperor]

Son, Thirsty, and Lucky You omg

 

[IWasBored]

They are just fantastic.

 

[iron yuppie]

I'd really enjoy a more visceral, aggressive record from the National at this point, something in the vein of Sad Songs. I mean, sure, High Violet is a solid set of songs, but it's a little lackadaisical coming from a band who thrives on the unexpected live. I would love for them to tap into that energy next time.

Or, in contrast, go in a more baroque direction a la Exile Vilify, with lots of strings. Something spare, intimate and haunting.

Interesting that you say this, because High Violet to me strikes a perfect harmony between the visceral and the baroque, as you call it. Terrible Love, Anyone's Ghost, and Afraid of Everyone are as muscular and menacing as anything in their catalogue, whereas Sorrow, Lemonworld, and Runaway are subdued and melancholic in the same vein as some of the most affecting tracks from Boxer. Then you have England, which somehow manages to fuse the two styles with a deft touch. Damn, I really love High Violet.

 

[bono_212]

Personally, I feel like it will be a bad move on The National's part if they don't release something with a bit more energy next time.

 

[LemonMelon]

Interesting that you say this, because High Violet to me strikes a perfect harmony between the visceral and the baroque, as you call it. Terrible Love, Anyone's Ghost, and Afraid of Everyone are as muscular and menacing as anything in their catalogue, whereas Sorrow, Lemonworld, and Runaway are subdued and melancholic in the same vein as some of the most affecting tracks from Boxer. Then you have England, which somehow manages to fuse the two styles with a deft touch. Damn, I really love High Violet.

There's a difference between fuzz and energy. The production on High Violet is really heavy and murky, but the performances themselves don't feel energetic to me. This is partially due to the inordinately long song lengths, which remove some of the momentum that Alligator had with its 13 tracks and shorter overall length.

 

[iron yuppie]

There's a difference between fuzz and energy. The production on High Violet is really heavy and murky, but the performances themselves don't feel energetic to me. This is partially due to the inordinately long song lengths, which remove some of the momentum that Alligator had with its 13 tracks and shorter overall length.

This must just be a matter of personal preference between us. I see Terrible Love, despite its middling tempo, as just as energized as something like Abel. The two just have different types of energy. The former is almost an immolation, whereas the latter is more of an explosion. But I see your point about the hazy production. I think it works beautifully in the sense that it captures the uncertainty with which the characters are struggling, whereas the frenetic quality of Alligator is more an expression of raw emotion.

 

[LemonMelon]

Oh, of course it's opinion. But I truly do believe they need a jolt of "raw" emotion, just for the sake of trying something a little different. Another album of walking around at night with a bottle of Jack in hand would be kind of a bummer for me, although I realize most here probably wouldn't care what they do at this point. I don't think it could be argued that a better balance is necessary though; most of the best National songs feature an element of escapism or positivity to balance Matt's dour, dour outlook, and High Violet is almost solely the latter. It's a real bringdown, and I don't feel that about their other work.

But, again, it's all opinion, and I'm tired of bagging on a record I actually like pretty well. TV On The Radio's new one actually blows and I've only brought it up a handful of times. I just feel that the National are spinning their wheels a little.

 

[IWasBored]

i think the point i might be getting hung up on here is this: LM, are you saying that raw emotion = an uptempo rocking song with semi-screamed choruses? i'm pretty sure i agree with iyup (although i probably fall into that category of people who'd be happy with anything they do now).

 

[PhilsFan]

High Violet's got solid energy to it. I think if their next album is good, it doesn't matter what direction they do it in.

 

[cobl04]

High Violet's got solid energy to it. I think if their next album is good, it doesn't matter what direction they do it in.

x2

HiVio i easily my favourite.

 

[LemonMelon]

i think the point i might be getting hung up on here is this: LM, are you saying that raw emotion = an uptempo rocking song with semi-screamed choruses? i'm pretty sure i agree with iyup (although i probably fall into that category of people who'd be happy with anything they do now).

Of course not. Alligator had exhilarating highs and haunting, vaguely unsettling lows that were equally engaging. It's when the band is midtempo 90% of the time that I lose interest. It was great for Boxer, but I'm starting to miss the old energy is all. It's like with Beck; sure, I enjoy Modern Guilt, but he's been consistently delivering hazy, disaffected melodic shit for a few albums now, and I miss being surprised. I feel his music connects best in that context. I don't want to hear the National settle into the same rut, that's all.

 

[intedomine]

Alligator is a masterpiece. I've only heard that and High Violet, and I've gotta say, High Violet, as good as it is, kinda underwhelms me when compared with Alligator.

They are a mighty fine band, and it excites me no end that I've still got 3 more albums available for me to immerse myself in National goodness.

 

[IWasBored]

Of course not. Alligator had exhilarating highs and haunting, vaguely unsettling lows that were equally engaging. It's when the band is midtempo 90% of the time that I lose interest. It was great for Boxer, but I'm starting to miss the old energy is all. It's like with Beck; sure, I enjoy Modern Guilt, but he's been consistently delivering hazy, disaffected melodic shit for a few albums now, and I miss being surprised. I feel his music connects best in that context. I don't want to hear the National settle into the same rut, that's all.

gotcha. i figured i was reading you wrong, it didnt make much sense. going to have to agree to disagree then, it seems more like a logical continuation, and while i can see where youre coming from, I like the songs on high violet far too much to agree.

 

[bono_212]

High Violet's got solid energy to it. I think if their next album is good, it doesn't matter what direction they do it in.

Knowing a few casual National fans, it just seems to me that High Violet rubbed them the wrong way after Boxer. Like all the excitement had gone and they've travelled down this dark path of despair. If they continue to release albums like that, I don't see the fanbase continuing to grow as well, imo.

 

[cobl04]

If they continue releasing albums as good as that, it won't matter to me

 

[bono_212]

Nor I on a personal level, but I would think you'd want the fanbase to grow? But eh, this is based on a few people, my survey is by no means 100% accurate.

 

[IWasBored]

Nor I on a personal level, but I would think you'd want the fanbase to grow? But eh, this is based on a few people, my survey is by no means 100% accurate.

I'd say selling out a venue with a capacity of 5k is far from a not-growing fan base, but call me devil's advocate. or, meh...personally dark and depressing is right up my alley. or maybe I just didn't realize they were that big, cos normally i go to see bands who i think are better known to find out they don't play nearly as large places and fill the seats. it's that whole living under a rock thing.

i got a decent laugh out of matt's between song banter after son and available, something about who put together this setlist? That was what we call in musical terms a medley of our angriest and bitter songs, now to follow it up with...depressing! ( as they launched into sorrow). a bit of paraphrasing there, but that was essentially it. and i thought hooray, the narrow range of my emotions.

 

[nielsgov]

Nor I on a personal level, but I would think you'd want the fanbase to grow? But eh, this is based on a few people, my survey is by no means 100% accurate.

From what I gather and it's certainly true here in Belgium, HV is the album that made them big.

 

[bono_212]

it's fine. You all like High Violet. I like High Violet. There's no point arguing.

 

[cobl04]

T-rue.

Bloodbuzz and Terrible Love got the biggest reactions at the show I went to.

 

[bono_212]

Obviously. It's the new album. I'm not suggesting the album was unpopular. I'm saying that (a few) fans (I know in person) that already existed prior to its release as nothing more than casual, found the band's last two album's decent into a much murkier and depressing sound to be a bit stagnating and turned them off. Not Boxer so much, and not High Violet on its own so much, but the back to back darker turn from the bit more energetic sound of Alligator and the previous two albums.

That's all I was saying, is that if they continue to release material like High Violet, they may continue to gain fans, but also lose the people who have hung on the fringes for a while.

None of this matters, I just was making a post on my phone that I couldn't really elaborate on because it's not the best medium to write al ong post on, and now I've explained what I've meant.

 

[IWasBored]

That's all I was saying, is that if they continue to release material like High Violet, they may continue to gain fans, but also lose the people who have hung on the fringes for a while.

not trying to belabor the point here, but name one band active for more than a few years years with some modicum of success who this has not happened to. i do agree inasmuch as i'd hate to see another album that sounds exactly the same as the last (and worse, the last two or three) from any band. yes, that's boring. it's never good. on the other end, you get too adventurous with the musical growth on the opposite side of the specturm, and you get the same thing.

 

[phanan]

I'm confident the next album will be unique in its own way.