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Old 03-12-2012, 07:31 AM   #31
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The kind of songs, and musicians, that I start this thread by way of ranting about, make the kind of join-the-dots music where, in my head, I can literally see one of those old-fashioned movie theatre lemons bouncing from line to line.

doo-doo
doo-do
doo-do
dee-dum
dee-dum
dee-dum
shoot me.

Yes, songwriting matters. But I want more. Songwriting is like novel writing or movie making; if I can see the strings, we have a problem.
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:58 AM   #32
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I don't like Justin Bieber, I will never, ever purchase so much as a note of his music, but really, what the fuck is wrong with Baby? It's a catchy pop song aimed at teens with a good beat.

By far the worst thing about the whole Bieber/One Direction/manufactured pop music scene is the fans. Anyone who's ever been on twitter can tell you that.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:26 AM   #33
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you know who else was aimed at teens with a good beat... the NAZIS!!!
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:25 AM   #34
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After all my understandably perhaps tiresome negativity, want to know my idea of good pop and rock n roll?

Wild Flag.

These ladies make the Black Keys look like the unreconstructed bogans they are.
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:12 AM   #35
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That's a good album. Nothing really all that exciting or vibrant about it, just 45 minutes of solid rock n roll. Not surprising that everybody liked it, although I think Sleater-Kinney have better albums.
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:25 AM   #36
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Sleater-Kinney do have better albums, but I am not sure I'd say there's nothing exciting or vibrant about Racehorse or Black Tiles, for instance. It has some ordinary moments too, granted.
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Old 03-20-2012, 03:14 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonMelon View Post
Their songwriting process has never resembled that of others producing "perfect" pop songs, such as Paul McCartney, so I have no idea why they force themselves into that template. So many shitty rock bands do what U2 does in the recording studio; that is, get into a room together and jam, looking for something memorable to write a song around. The reason those bands suck is that they lack the chemistry or nuance U2 has as a quartet. They grab onto one riff without seeing how everything else fits in, which is where music gets really crappy for me.

One element that we haven't really touched on is the arrangement, which I guess is where hooks and surprise meet. I really respect artists who find ways to make verse/chorus into something intriguing. In the Oasis/Blur debate, both acts wrote functional pop music, but the former was a hell of a lot more surprising in their arrangements and overall presentation, whereas Oasis songs were these big slabs of music that didn't have a lot of grace. Their arrangements also became progressively more bloated and uninteresting as the albums piled up.

In that sense, I guess I completely agree with what you're saying; artists who write a decent hook and stuff it into an uninteresting verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge format with no surprise are very lazy and not worth caring about. On the other hand, most of these acts were Beatles inspired, and I don't see the harm in that. If anything, the Beatles were among the most surprising bands of all time. I would say that laziness and a lack of guts/creativity/inspiration are killing music, not an emphasis on strong songwriting.
I was nearly done a long and considered response to this post -- which was outstanding -- when I hit a wrong button and deleted my post out of existence. Anyway, I agree with everything you wrote here, and great post!
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