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Old 09-13-2009, 02:33 PM   #106
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It is interesting to me, band dynamics, etc. I remember reading about Keith Richards, and how much he just loved/needed being in the Rolling Stones. Not that the other members didn't, it just seemed like the idea of being in a band, specifically that band, meant everything to him.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:45 PM   #107
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It's like being in a street gang, I've heard.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:47 PM   #108
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I agree that Paul believed in the band, perhaps too long for their own good - wanted to tour, wanted Let it be and convinced George Martin to do Abbey Road - and probably came off as forcefully leading after Epstein died. I also think none of that destroyed the band any more than the official "Yoko did it" story. It had more to do with his writing partner didn't want to be a part of the band anymore.

I don't think so much his ego failed at being solo, but he didn't have John to keep up his game in writing. Same goes for all their solo efforts - they were better together.
The Beatles were so big though you couldn't touch them. McCartney never bothered to read reviews of the albums or checked to see where the singles reached in the charts, but in Wings he was far more aware of how the public and press received his work. There was a vulnerability that came with leaving The Beatles and I think they were all (not just Paul) very conscious of that.

Early Wings is pretty shaky. You have to wonder what he was thinking with some of the songs. Perhaps none of it was helped by that 'war of words' McCartney and Lennon had in the papers around 1971. I think Paul did begin to question whether or not John was the true talent of the group and the rest were just tagging along.

Mid Wings clearly captures McCartney in far more confident form. The band had slowly gained a following, achieved a few hit singles and were pretty tight as a live act. Band On The Run sort of proved to him that there was life beyond The Beatles.

But even now I get the feeling that he needs reassuring that a song is any good. Perhaps it's just the arrogance of youth, but he always seemed to know instinctively the merits of a tune in The Beatles.

I think John did some great stuff as a solo artist. It was only after he moved to New York and encountered all the problems he did there, along with splitting up with Yoko, that his creative fire seemed to dampen. He still had a few highlights even after that though.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:57 PM   #109
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I agree with all of this. Yes, his intentions were certainly good, and it was certainly his headstrong ways that did more harm than good. Ultimately, if you assume the role as captain, you have to bear responsibility when you steer the ship into choppy waters. Who's to say that without the Get Back/Let it Be project the band would have broken up? Perhaps they would have just taken a short break, something they probably needed anyway.

As for Lennon, it seems that he didn't want to outright leave the band (because deep down he needed it as well) so much as have the freedom to go off and do other projects when he felt like it. Harrison seemed to be of this mind as well (and he was the one most opposed to traveling and playing live), and Ringo probably was just going with the flow.
Yes, Ringo would definitely have gone along for the ride no matter what. I think George would have too you know. Although later on he said how stifling The Beatles had become, I think had Lennon and McCartney been up for carrying on, he would have too.

I've been re-reading the Anthology a lot lately and Paul actually admits that for a good 4-5 months after it had ended, they still kept in touch and tested the waters about possibly getting back together. Nobody could quite believe it was all over.

I think John wanted it both ways. He kind of wanted to go off and do his own thing with Yoko but then return to the familiarity and security of The Beatles.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:26 PM   #110
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Has anybody here ever listened in depth to the pre-Sgt. Pepper Capital U.S. albums? My gut says the only people those albums(in that form) appeal to are the boomers in the U.S. who actually grew up listening to them. But for boomers anywhere else and younger people everywhere who didn't actually grow up when the Beatles were around, the U.K. discography is the only discography. I don't really approve of how the U.S. albums came to be...Capital basically butchered the albums, cut-and-pasted tracks to make the albums they thought would sell the most, until the Beatles put a stop to it at Sgt. Pepper. I don't think anyone would disagree that the U.K. discography is the discography as the Beatles intended it. Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone's listened to any of the U.S. albums extensively, and if anyone has any thoughts on them? I think I'm going to put some playlists together in ITunes that match the U.S. albums, and give them a try. Though Revolver without "I'm Only Sleeping", "And Your Bird Can Sing", and "Dr. Robert" seems blasphemous.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:16 PM   #111
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It is interesting to me, band dynamics, etc. I remember reading about Keith Richards, and how much he just loved/needed being in the Rolling Stones. Not that the other members didn't, it just seemed like the idea of being in a band, specifically that band, meant everything to him.
Certainly. Part of what I love about The Stones, The Beatles, The Who, and even U2 to some extent is that while they're all solid, even brilliant musicians/lyricists/etc..., they're better together than when they are apart. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and that's most of the reason why the "supergroup" concept doesn't work for me.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:53 PM   #112
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Has anybody here ever listened in depth to the pre-Sgt. Pepper Capital U.S. albums? My gut says the only people those albums(in that form) appeal to are the boomers in the U.S. who actually grew up listening to them. But for boomers anywhere else and younger people everywhere who didn't actually grow up when the Beatles were around, the U.K. discography is the only discography. I don't really approve of how the U.S. albums came to be...Capital basically butchered the albums, cut-and-pasted tracks to make the albums they thought would sell the most, until the Beatles put a stop to it at Sgt. Pepper. I don't think anyone would disagree that the U.K. discography is the discography as the Beatles intended it. Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone's listened to any of the U.S. albums extensively, and if anyone has any thoughts on them? I think I'm going to put some playlists together in ITunes that match the U.S. albums, and give them a try. Though Revolver without "I'm Only Sleeping", "And Your Bird Can Sing", and "Dr. Robert" seems blasphemous.
I wouldn't listen to those corporate mockeries of the albums if you paid me. Though it should be noted the U.S. version of Magical Mystery Tour has become the official version.

Something I've been thinking about lately: although Sgt. Pepper's is pretty secure in its "Greatest Album of All Time" status, I can't help wondering how much better it would be (and let's face it, many hardcore Beatles fans prefer Revolver, Abbey Road, or The White Album) if Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane had not been abducted by Brian Epstein to satisfy the overeager record company. George Martin has been quoted as saying this was a terrible mistake, despite the album's eventual success.

So I'm wondering, if the only reason the songs were left off the album was because at that time they didn't want to double-dip and put out something that had already seen released as a single, wouldn't it make sense to try and work them back into the album and make a more definitive version? One could also look at Only A Northern Song, which was recorded during the Pepper's sessions as well.

The big question of course would be where to put them in the track listing, and even the release version had a different order on side one.

Any ideas?
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:55 PM   #113
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I'm not so sure "Strawberry Fields Forever" has a place anywhere on the album. I can't think of a place it'd fit.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:58 PM   #114
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I burned both Sgt. Pepper's and Magical Mystery Tour onto one cd today to listen to while I was at work and mixed it around a little bit. The flow was off in a few places, but it was alright.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:58 PM   #115
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"Strawberry Fields" would have to go before or after "Within You, Without You" and "Penny Lane" somewhere in the "When I'm Sixty-Four"/"Lovely Rita"/"Good Morning Good Morning" trifecta, I'd assume.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:16 PM   #116
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It should also be noted that the album was original going to be a concept piece about daily life in Liverpool or material reflecting on their childhood. I think from that standpoint, Strawberry Fields fits the album more than Mr. Kite or Lucy do.

Also, apparently the album having a gatefold cover was because the band originally thought it would be a double album. So to put two or three more songs on there isn't exactly blasphemous.

Because the band's recording sessions were pretty close together, it's easy to look at the other stuff found on MMT and try to put it on Pepper's, but that stuff was definitely created for a new project, so I think it's best to just keep it to the three songs that were actually meant to be for Pepper's specifically.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:20 PM   #117
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Where can "Only a Northern Song" by found? The Anthology discs?
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:28 PM   #118
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Where can "Only a Northern Song" by found? The Anthology discs?
Yellow Submarine.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:30 PM   #119
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Oh, okay. Thank you.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:36 PM   #120
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Do you have any of the Anthology discs, YLB? Volume 3 (at least) is essential. You get the acoustic White Album demos (including While My Guitar with an extra verse, and in my opinion a superior version of All Things Must Pass), the incinerating Not Guilty, an early version of Macca's Junk, What's the New Mary Jane, some covers from the Get Back sessions. SO worth it.
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