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Old 09-12-2009, 09:35 PM   #91
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Hmm, interesting. Hopefully that's not the case, as I've already seen Anthology. Can anybody confirm/disprove that?
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:32 PM   #92
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Well the docs are more media collages than anything else, and you don't actually see any faces talking, just the voices of the band members and Martin over moving pictures and some old film. I thought I remembered reading that they were taken from the Anthology interviews.

They're not meant to be definitive, just introductions for new listeners. So it really doesn't bother me. The way they're edited is pretty cool, regardless.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:43 PM   #93
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Good deal. I'll check 'em out at some point. If they were new or something, then I was going to do so sooner rather than later, but since they're not, it's not as big a priority.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:58 AM   #94
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I couldn't even tell you when I heard The Beatles for the first time, but I'm sure my mother had some old 45s. I do remember visiting my uncle and listening to the "Red" and "Blue" compilations and being immediately drawn to the music. In the 80's, I started picking up some of their albums on cassette, and they used to have all different kinds of fucked up compilations; it took the longest time for me to figure out what was an actual album. For example, I had Hey Jude on tape and had no clue it was a damn compilation. And does anyone remember the Rock And Roll Music double set released in the mid-70's? Think of it as a glorified Beatles For Sale. I used to really dig that.

i could tell you. i was about 4, still listening to the stupid kids shit my mom played between weavers and pete seeger albums. like that fucking raffi version of "octopus' garden." on day my dad, just to be a dick, played the original and told me raffi was crap, "baby beluga" was the worst song ever, and this [the original] was what the song was supposed to sound like and whatnot. i, being the same stubborn asshole at 4 that i am today, swore the beatles were the enemy and that i'd never listen to them EVER.

fast forward a few years to second grade, and i changed my mind. my best friend was a huge beatles fan because her dad had all the albums and played them all the time. she was over one day, going through my parents' records and pulled out all the beatles stuff for us to listen to. i'd moved on past lame-ass kids' music and on to listening to nothing, but i still considered them to be evil for some reason. probably because my dad liked them. however, i went along with listening sgt pepper and changed my mind pretty quickly. from there i went through meet the beatles, let it be, rubber soul, and a hard days night. i was pretty disappointed with my mom because after going over to my friend's house, i found out there were a bunch of other albums (all equally awesome) that she didn't have. i asked for the live at the bbc compilation for christmas. birthday money from when i turned 8 went toward acquiring myself a copy of help, and i got the blue compilation somewhere around the same time. being a broke kid, it took me til somewhere around age 13 to finally get the last bits of the catalogue (that was revolver).

i became a pretty militant fan. i know, probably have always known because i was aware of the original versions of buddy holly, chuck berry, smokey robinson, etc. songs they covered from listening to the live at the bbc set and comparing it to the local oldies radio station, that the beatles did not exist in a vacuum. but i've always looked at music as there's the beatles on one side, and then there's everything else ever played/recorded/written by anyone ever. talking about the beatles was talking about the single greatest band ever, and nothing else that came before or came after them could even come close to being of that calibur. that friend who got me listening to the band eventually decided she liked the monkees and some other lesser bands better than the beatles, and that actually put something of a strain on our friendship. i remember nearly getting into a fight with a girl who lived down the road when i was about 10, she was a couple years older than me, her sister was friends with my sister and they were over at our house one day. i was listening to the beatles and she said something to the affect of, "oh, how cute. i went through a beatles phase when i was your age, too." it wasn't the condescension that ticked me off as much it was the suggestion that liking the band was just a phase i'd grow out of. there was no fucking way i'd ever wake up one day and decide oh, you're right. early 90s pop music is soooooooooo much better. and until i was 14, i really didn't like any other bands. that many albums with that many different sounding songs, why the hell would i need to listen to anything else? in 7 years i went through some sort of...phase, i guess, for lack of a better word...where i was...obsessed, i guess, for lack of a better word...with one album or another. initially it was sgt pepper, then i moved on to middle-era rubber soul stuff, saw a hard day's night and loved the earliest stuff, realized hey, my mom has a copy of the white album and listened to that repeatedly...moved back on to pepper and gained new appreciation for stuff like good morning good morning and fixing a hole (those were not favorites when i was 7, but by the time i was 12 i thought they were the coolest things in the world).


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I don't hate McCartney, and I imagine the impression I've given is that I cringe or fast-forward every time one of his songs come on. That's not the case. I enjoy a majority of what he's done. But there's something about his personality that rubs me the wrong way, and it's hard to completely disregard it. Lennon was a nutjob and could be a complete asshole, of course, but I just watched Let It Be with some friends, and everyone just wanted to sock Paul in the jaw. A lot of the time he's bossing the other band members around, trying to be the captain of the ship (and perhaps someone had to do this, but still), and then when he's trying to be funny, it often comes off (here we go again) forced and awkward. There's something about the way he looks into the camera every time one of his songs are being filmed...it's hard to put a finger on it. But he comes off a little smug.

As for the music itself, yeah, tons of great stuff. But to me he made some wonky or redundant choices that are frustrating to hear. I disagree with the notion that all of them wrote bad songs, especially if you disregard some of the primitive, earlier material. From Rubber Soul onward, the only Lennon song I can think of that's doesn't do it for me is Good Morning Good Morning (and luckily it's part of an album where the whole is better than the sum of the parts). Whereas with Macca, I could totally live without Magical Mystery Tour, Your Mother Should Know, Honey Pie, Wild Honey Pie, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, and Lovely Rita. That's not a long list, but it doesn't include a handful of his songs that I mostly enjoy but have questionable elements, and this also happens to be one of my favorite bands, with many albums that are among my all-time favorites.

Let's also not forget that the whole Let It Be/Get Back project was Paul's idea, and it pretty much destroyed the band. He was also the one behind the Magical Mystery Tour film, which tried to drag the Pepper's concept out a bit too far, and wound up being the band's first unequivocal failure.



you know, up until very reccently (like two days ago), i wouldn't have been able to disagree with you more, but i do now see what you're saying (and what any of you guys who share a similar opinion are saying). because i pretty much grew up idolizing the guy, i'd scan over any remotely anti-paul posts i may encounter on here. there was a time when i thought "silly love songs" was brilliant and couldn't understand why my mom would get irritated when i'd insist on playing the mix tape with that, and other cheesy mccartney stuff, in the car. i can still listen to it now with some kind of fondness more than nostalgia (ultimately, i'm just a sucker for anything i can sing along to), but i do see why some people don't like that stuff.

also, the personality thing...maybe it's not the same thing, but i went through the anthology and watched it all, and a lot of his interview clips annoyed the crap out of me. this time around something didn't sit right with me in the way that he discusses everything with a smug distance, like he's over-analyzed every element of the beatles with his shrink and found a way to justify/excuse/explain any disagreement and every decision he made for the band that might have been taken the wrong way or disliked by anyone and everyone from when he first met john, up until the present day (or 1995, technically, i guess).

kind of like how i wrote my personal history as a beatles fan up there. yes, that was intentional. and no, i don't assume any of you actually cared to read all of it.


oh, i'm always going to love flaming pie, though. that, minus the pathetic last track, was a stellar bunch of songs.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:09 AM   #95
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i could tell you. i was about 4, still listening to the stupid kids shit my mom played between weavers and pete seeger albums. like that fucking raffi version of "octopus' garden." on day my dad, just to be a dick, played the original and told me raffi was crap, "baby beluga" was the worst song ever, and this [the original] was what the song was supposed to sound like and whatnot. i, being the same stubborn asshole at 4 that i am today, swore the beatles were the enemy and that i'd never listen to them EVER.

fast forward a few years to second grade, and i changed my mind. my best friend was a huge beatles fan because her dad had all the albums and played them all the time. she was over one day, going through my parents' records and pulled out all the beatles stuff for us to listen to. i'd moved on past lame-ass kids' music and on to listening to nothing, but i still considered them to be evil for some reason. probably because my dad liked them. however, i went along with listening sgt pepper and changed my mind pretty quickly. from there i went through meet the beatles, let it be, rubber soul, and a hard days night. i was pretty disappointed with my mom because after going over to my friend's house, i found out there were a bunch of other albums (all equally awesome) that she didn't have. i asked for the live at the bbc compilation for christmas. birthday money from when i turned 8 went toward acquiring myself a copy of help, and i got the blue compilation somewhere around the same time. being a broke kid, it took me til somewhere around age 13 to finally get the last bits of the catalogue (that was revolver).

i became a pretty militant fan. i know, probably have always known because i was aware of the original versions of buddy holly, chuck berry, smokey robinson, etc. songs they covered from listening to the live at the bbc set and comparing it to the local oldies radio station, that the beatles did not exist in a vacuum. but i've always looked at music as there's the beatles on one side, and then there's everything else ever played/recorded/written by anyone ever. talking about the beatles was talking about the single greatest band ever, and nothing else that came before or came after them could even come close to being of that calibur. that friend who got me listening to the band eventually decided she liked the monkees and some other lesser bands better than the beatles, and that actually put something of a strain on our friendship. i remember nearly getting into a fight with a girl who lived down the road when i was about 10, she was a couple years older than me, her sister was friends with my sister and they were over at our house one day. i was listening to the beatles and she said something to the affect of, "oh, how cute. i went through a beatles phase when i was your age, too." it wasn't the condescension that ticked me off as much it was the suggestion that liking the band was just a phase i'd grow out of. there was no fucking way i'd ever wake up one day and decide oh, you're right. early 90s pop music is soooooooooo much better. and until i was 14, i really didn't like any other bands. that many albums with that many different sounding songs, why the hell would i need to listen to anything else? in 7 years i went through some sort of...phase, i guess, for lack of a better word...where i was...obsessed, i guess, for lack of a better word...with one album or another. initially it was sgt pepper, then i moved on to middle-era rubber soul stuff, saw a hard day's night and loved the earliest stuff, realized hey, my mom has a copy of the white album and listened to that repeatedly...moved back on to pepper and gained new appreciation for stuff like good morning good morning and fixing a hole (those were not favorites when i was 7, but by the time i was 12 i thought they were the coolest things in the world).







you know, up until very reccently (like two days ago), i wouldn't have been able to disagree with you more, but i do now see what you're saying (and what any of you guys who share a similar opinion are saying). because i pretty much grew up idolizing the guy, i'd scan over any remotely anti-paul posts i may encounter on here. there was a time when i thought "silly love songs" was brilliant and couldn't understand why my mom would get irritated when i'd insist on playing the mix tape with that, and other cheesy mccartney stuff, in the car. i can still listen to it now with some kind of fondness more than nostalgia (ultimately, i'm just a sucker for anything i can sing along to), but i do see why some people don't like that stuff.

also, the personality thing...maybe it's not the same thing, but i went through the anthology and watched it all, and a lot of his interview clips annoyed the crap out of me. this time around something didn't sit right with me in the way that he discusses everything with a smug distance, like he's over-analyzed every element of the beatles with his shrink and found a way to justify/excuse/explain any disagreement and every decision he made for the band that might have been taken the wrong way or disliked by anyone and everyone from when he first met john, up until the present day (or 1995, technically, i guess).

kind of like how i wrote my personal history as a beatles fan up there. yes, that was intentional. and no, i don't assume any of you actually cared to read all of it.


oh, i'm always going to love flaming pie, though. that, minus the pathetic last track, was a stellar bunch of songs.
I read it all so eat that.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:10 AM   #96
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I read it all so eat that.
mmmm, crunchy.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:13 AM   #97
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mmmm, crunchy.
You probably did not read my little emotional moment at the end of the first Beatles thread. It's me not being an asshole for a few wonderful minutes.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:23 AM   #98
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You probably did not read my little emotional moment at the end of the first Beatles thread. It's me not being an asshole for a few wonderful minutes.
i did not see it. how many pages back will i have to go? it's getting near my bed time, and my eyeballs are threatening to melt out of my skull if look at too many more words. damn...working saturday overnight and having to be back in for 10pm on sundays is really going to kill my enjoyment of this football season.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:27 AM   #99
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i found it. about magical mystery tour, right?

you're alright.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:30 AM   #100
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i found it. about magical mystery tour, right?

you're alright.


I have questions for you but you are about to go to sleep so they will be tabled. Sleep well.

You live in the NE area, yes, so, I'll assume you are a Pats fan.....hopefully you are not working tomorrow night so you can watch them destroy Buffalo.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:59 AM   #101
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Steak.
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Old 09-13-2009, 12:59 PM   #102
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I don't hate McCartney, and I imagine the impression I've given is that I cringe or fast-forward every time one of his songs come on. That's not the case. I enjoy a majority of what he's done. But there's something about his personality that rubs me the wrong way, and it's hard to completely disregard it. Lennon was a nutjob and could be a complete asshole, of course, but I just watched Let It Be with some friends, and everyone just wanted to sock Paul in the jaw. A lot of the time he's bossing the other band members around, trying to be the captain of the ship (and perhaps someone had to do this, but still), and then when he's trying to be funny, it often comes off (here we go again) forced and awkward. There's something about the way he looks into the camera every time one of his songs are being filmed...it's hard to put a finger on it. But he comes off a little smug.

As for the music itself, yeah, tons of great stuff. But to me he made some wonky or redundant choices that are frustrating to hear. I disagree with the notion that all of them wrote bad songs, especially if you disregard some of the primitive, earlier material. From Rubber Soul onward, the only Lennon song I can think of that's doesn't do it for me is Good Morning Good Morning (and luckily it's part of an album where the whole is better than the sum of the parts). Whereas with Macca, I could totally live without Magical Mystery Tour, Your Mother Should Know, Honey Pie, Wild Honey Pie, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, and Lovely Rita. That's not a long list, but it doesn't include a handful of his songs that I mostly enjoy but have questionable elements, and this also happens to be one of my favorite bands, with many albums that are among my all-time favorites.

Let's also not forget that the whole Let It Be/Get Back project was Paul's idea, and it pretty much destroyed the band. He was also the one behind the Magical Mystery Tour film, which tried to drag the Pepper's concept out a bit too far, and wound up being the band's first unequivocal failure.
As much as I like Paul, I do think that the success of The Beatles did make him a little cocky and arrogant. His charisma and affable persona does much to hide this but I've no doubt that it irked the other Beatles more than he realised. I think he had a very 'take charge' mentality (particularly after Brian Epstein died) and this resulted in the feeling that he was forcing his ideas onto other people and believed that he always knew best.

The collapse of The Beatles was a serious blow to his confidence and he was never quite the same person again. The fact that, to all intents and purposes, he no longer had a job was a real wake-up call. After coasting along with the boys since his teens, this was a truly humbling experience.

Funnily enough, I think his supreme confidence was the key to him writing great songs, he believed in himself and the band 100%. After he suffered this knock, his songs never hit the same kind of heights again. In Wings or as a solo artist he is far more prone to self doubt.

Paul seemed to be the one who really wanted to keep The Beatles together, he loved them so much. After Epstein's death, I think he feared that the four of them could begin to drift apart if they didn't have somebody to pull them into line. He hastily concocted The Magical Mystery Tour in an attempt to counteract that.

He was trying to inspire them with Let It Be by filming the whole process in anticipation for some big live gig. He felt that performing again would soldify them. So whilst all his efforts backfired, I think they were always borne out of good intentions.
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Old 09-13-2009, 01:50 PM   #103
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I agree that Paul believed in the band, perhaps too long for their own good - wanted to tour, wanted Let it be and convinced George Martin to do Abbey Road - and probably came off as forcefully leading after Epstein died. I also think none of that destroyed the band any more than the official "Yoko did it" story. It had more to do with his writing partner didn't want to be a part of the band anymore.

I don't think so much his ego failed at being solo, but he didn't have John to keep up his game in writing. Same goes for all their solo efforts - they were better together.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:15 PM   #104
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I read it all so eat that.
I read it all too. Great post, IWB.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:21 PM   #105
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As much as I like Paul, I do think that the success of The Beatles did make him a little cocky and arrogant. His charisma and affable persona does much to hide this but I've no doubt that it irked the other Beatles more than he realised. I think he had a very 'take charge' mentality (particularly after Brian Epstein died) and this resulted in the feeling that he was forcing his ideas onto other people and believed that he always knew best.

The collapse of The Beatles was a serious blow to his confidence and he was never quite the same person again. The fact that, to all intents and purposes, he no longer had a job was a real wake-up call. After coasting along with the boys since his teens, this was a truly humbling experience.

Funnily enough, I think his supreme confidence was the key to him writing great songs, he believed in himself and the band 100%. After he suffered this knock, his songs never hit the same kind of heights again. In Wings or as a solo artist he is far more prone to self doubt.

Paul seemed to be the one who really wanted to keep The Beatles together, he loved them so much. After Epstein's death, I think he feared that the four of them could begin to drift apart if they didn't have somebody to pull them into line. He hastily concocted The Magical Mystery Tour in an attempt to counteract that.

He was trying to inspire them with Let It Be by filming the whole process in anticipation for some big live gig. He felt that performing again would soldify them. So whilst all his efforts backfired, I think they were always borne out of good intentions.
I agree with all of this. Yes, his intentions were certainly good, and it was certainly his headstrong ways that did more harm than good. Ultimately, if you assume the role as captain, you have to bear responsibility when you steer the ship into choppy waters. Who's to say that without the Get Back/Let it Be project the band would have broken up? Perhaps they would have just taken a short break, something they probably needed anyway.

As for Lennon, it seems that he didn't want to outright leave the band (because deep down he needed it as well) so much as have the freedom to go off and do other projects when he felt like it. Harrison seemed to be of this mind as well (and he was the one most opposed to traveling and playing live), and Ringo probably was just going with the flow.
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