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Old 09-10-2009, 02:20 AM   #931
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Wow, a lot of catching up. And two more Pitchfork 10s.

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Do you not put Maxwell's in the old-timey category? Because it sure sounds like it to me. Also, Honey Pie, For No One, and Martha My Dear (which for some reason I like, at least when it picks up halfway through).
"For No One" doesn't belong in there.

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Old 09-10-2009, 02:24 AM   #932
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:25 AM   #933
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:27 AM   #934
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:27 AM   #935
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Here's an idea: Ringo could have nailed the vocal during that second "You Never Give Me Your Money" section. Paul seems like he's channeling his voice there anyway.

But that's coming from a big fan of Ringo songs.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:28 AM   #936
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After listening to Abbey Road, I'm still of the belief that it's overrated, and would probably list it as my 4th or 5th favorite Beatoffs album.
I'm still of the belief that it's their greatest achievement.

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The McCartney two-fer of Maxwell's Silver Hammer and Oh! Darling is just ridiculous, the former yet ANOTHER example of Macca's obsession with old-timey music, and the latter WAY out of his vocal comfort zone (something that Lennon was astute enough to recognize and point out to his bandmate to no avail). The music on Oh! Darling is great but I just find the singing too forced.
Are they two of the weaker tracks on the album? Yes. But I don't think they're bad. Maxwell's Silver Hammer has grown on me over the years - it's a take at dark humor, it's not a serious song, and the juxtaposition between the dark-comedy-style lyrics and the light-hearted music works, imo. Oh! Darling hasn't grown on me as much, and yes, I do know what you mean about McCartney's vocal performance on this track - it doesn't bother me as much as it does you, but I can understand why it could bother people.

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Not sure if putting Ringo's track in the #4 slot is a good idea. It's a nice little tune, but a trifle, and should have somehow been worked into the medley, or something.
I think it's fine where it is. I think it was a deemed a finished song, whereas the songs in the medley were deemed by the band to be unfinished, and that's why they were strung together. Wouldn't make sense, then, for them to include a song that was deemed finished in the medley.

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Also, NOT a fan of the Moog. Considering how NOT dated most of the band's music is, this just sounds cheesy. At times at works, at times it's head-smacking. Does Here Comes The Sun really benefit from its presence? No, it doesn't.
I didn't even know what 'the Moog' was until I googled it after reading this, so I can't really comment, except to say that no part of Here Comes The Sun has ever sounded dated to me.

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You Never Give Me Your Money. There's some good stuff here. Unfortunately, this song is like Frankenstein, seemingly built from several songs, which tonally don't really go together (unlike the similar Happiness is a Warm Gun, which works). At its worst it sounds more like Wings than the Beatles, and then you have (ONCE AGAIN) the old-timey stuff, that little saloon-sounding part where McCartney, AGAIN with a forced vocal sings that "Out of college, money spent, see no future, pay no rent, All the money's gone, nowhere to go" in what in all honesty sounds like some kind of minstrel show bullshit. It's embarrassing, but I'll bet the Macca apologists think it's cute. Having said that, I like the end with the "1,2,3,4,5,6,7..." bit.
Yes, there are several different parts(actually, I count only two - the first being everything up until the quoted 'out of college' section that you dislike, and everything from there on), yes they are distinct from each other in a handful of ways, but I think it works. Do you also dislike Bohemian Rhapsody? You could make a similar argument against it. I know what you mean about McCartney sometimes sounding 'old-timey', I know exactly what you mean, it's there in 'Oh! Darling', sometimes it bothers me and sometimes it doesn't(depends on what kind of mood I'm in), but I don't hear any of it in this particular track.

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And here's another thing. This is supposed to be part of "The Medley"? How the fuck is that possible? The song is TWICE as long as anything else in there, and it does not IN ANY WAY segue into Sun King. I call bullshit.

Secondly, even "The Medley" isn't just one medley. Are you telling me that there's not a clear break between Bathroom Window and Golden Slumbers? Because there is. Dead air, total stylistic shift, whatever. Also, since we're talking about Golden Slumbers, what the FUCK is Macca doing during that "smiles AWAAAAAKE you when you rise" part? Is that scratchy, guttural vocal really appropriate here? No. As usual, forced. And a shame because the rest is so nicely done. I could also argue it's a weak knockoff of Lennon's Good Night, but I'll let that slide.
It's well documented the the idea for a medley was originally Paul's. In the Anthology book, John says that he didn't care one way or the other about the medley and that he changed one line in Mean Mr. Mustard - he made Mr. Mustard's sister's name Pam, when it had originally been Shirley - so it would sound like it had something to do with Polythene Pam; the two songs didn't have anything to with each other beforehand. The whole medley is that way, it's a makeshift medley made out of unfinished songs that wouldn't have fit anywhere else. That the whole thing was a makeshift-cut-and-paste job only makes it seem more unique and more brilliant to me. To scrap a bunch of misfit tracks together to form this musical collage, with all these different styles and tones and moods and tempos in such a condensed period of time...it's one of the greatest pieces of recorded pop/rock music ever, imo.

And I do consider the whole thing a medley; The two things that have always made everything from You Never Give Me Your Money through The End unquestionably a medley in mind are that the band themselves admitted it, and You Never Give Me Your Money's main melody is suddenly reprised by a horn section right in the middle of Carry The Weight. What reason could there have been to do that, other than Paul/the band intentionally wanting to signal the end of the medley by reprising the beginning of it right before the grand finale(The End)? Furthermore, I disagree with the idea that a lack of a segue between two tracks means the whole thing isn't a medley. Take these definitions of the word medley:

"a collection of songs or other musical items performed as a continuous piece : a medley of Beatles songs" - as defined by Oxford American Dictionary (yes, they actually used the Beatles example. I kid you not.)

"a musical composition made up of a series of songs or short pieces" - as defined by merriam-webster.com

"medley is a piece composed from parts of existing pieces, played one after another, sometimes overlapping." - as defined by Wikipedia

I don't see where you get the idea that a segues are necessary in order for it to be a medley. And, like I said before, what really ties the whole thing together as a medley, for me anyway, as opposed to just a series of songs, is the You Never Give Me Your Money reprise in Carry That Weight, and the fact that the band themselves admitted it.

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This album isn't perfect. It's far from it. The high points are very, very high, but with that gaping wound in the middle of side one (where most great albums tend to peak), and Macca overplaying his hand on side two, I just can't see how this is their masterpiece.

/rant
All I can say is that Abbey Road has given me the most consistent enjoyment and joy of any Beatles album in my life, and all Beatles albums have given me pretty consistent enjoyment and joy. It all comes down to subjective tastes, I guess, and it's not like I'm going to argue with anyone who thinks Revolver is their best album, or Sgt. Peppers, or The White Album, or whatever.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:28 AM   #937
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The only thing Ringo's good at nailing is Barbara Bach.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:30 AM   #938
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The only thing Ringo's good at nailing is Barbara Bach.
I'm your huckleberry.

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Old 09-10-2009, 02:31 AM   #939
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Same scenario for me. You'd think they would have had at least one display near the front of the store, or at least one near the music section. There was none of that. And the sale prices weren't on any here either.

But that's typical for the big box stores like Target and Wal-Mart. It's not their specialty.

Agreed regarding the mini-documentary listed on them; it's also on the discs themselves. It would have been more than enough just providing the information within the booklet itself.
Ours had a display in the very front of the store, with correct pricing. Of course, when I got there, of all the albums, fucking Please Please Me was sold out. So I bought 13. Which meant I didn't utilize it just right. I'm gonna buy my wife a copy of Abbey Road though when Please Please Me comes in again, if it's this week. But I can't complain too much, because I get my discount. $131.70 after usage of gift cards. Another $11.70 when I get Please Please Me. And all this leads me to believe one thing: sales tax must be less where you are than here.

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The sale price goes until the 12th, so my guess is that, but maybe tourist can give us a real answer.

I was only able to pick up Sgt. Pepper's, Rubber Soul, With the Beatles, and Let It Be by the time I got there at noon.
The gift cards indeed end on Saturday.

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For the Target purchasers, did the gift cards come up on the register when they rang up the albums, or am I going to have to tell them they're supposed to give me $5 for every 2 cds I buy?

Watch my Target not have any of them even put out yet.
Yes, they come up at the register. I didn't have to mention anything to the cashier girl. She simply began scanning the gift cards.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:31 AM   #940
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"For No One" doesn't belong in there.


Agreed. There's something really personal and heart wrenching and poignant about "For No One" that can't be found in the throwaway ditties like "Maxwell's" and "Honey Pie."

Which reminds me, there's a Lennon quote somewhere saying that he considered "And Your Bird Can Sing" a throwaway track. It's certainly not the deepest thing he ever penned but, shit, if that's a "throwaway"...wow. What an asshole. And I mean that in the best possible way.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:31 AM   #941
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Who was the guy on here that said the Across the Universe covers were superior to the originals?

And can we kill him?
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:49 AM   #942
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Are they two of the weaker tracks on the album? Yes. But I don't think they're bad. Maxwell's Silver Hammer has grown on me over the years - it's a take at dark humor, it's not a serious song, and the juxtaposition between the dark-comedy-style lyrics and the light-hearted music works, imo. Oh! Darling hasn't grown on me as much, and yes, I do know what you mean about McCartney's vocal performance on this track - it doesn't bother me as much as it does you, but I can understand why it could bother people.
Okay, I didn't say these songs were shite. I don't skip them. I just roll my eyes a bit during Maxwell, and I just don't know if Paul was the right one to sing Oh! Darling. No biggie.

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I think it's fine where it is. I think it was a deemed a finished song, whereas the songs in the medley were deemed by the band to be unfinished, and that's why they were strung together. Wouldn't make sense, then, for them to include a song that was deemed finished in the medley.
I guess I'd just prefer it closer to the end of side 1, with I Want You in the #4 slot. Of course, your disqualification of it from being eligible for the medley on grounds of "completion" is something completely negated by your acceptance of You Never Give Me Your Money as part of it. Ahem.

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I didn't even know what 'the Moog' was until I googled it after reading this, so I can't really comment, except to say that no part of Here Comes The Sun has ever sounded dated to me.
I don't know what to say to this. I've probably known about the Moog as long as I've known about Abbey Road. I think you're in a small minority here. I don't think it ruins Here Comes the Sun, but it's unnecessary.

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Yes, there are several different parts(actually, I count only two - the first being everything up until the quoted 'out of college' section that you dislike, and everything from there on)
From Wiki:

"The song begins with two verses sung by McCartney in a large-sound, almost classical style. This is followed by a section played in a double time swing feel with McCartney switching to a more nasal vocal style, using a mock-baritone voice which contrasts the song's somewhat poignant lyrics. Next comes an instrumental interlude with George Harrison's aggressive blues rock-style and a concluding unison line between guitar and bass. The song fades out with a chant reminiscent of a nursery rhyme, set to a Harrison guitar riff similar to a previous album track, "Here Comes the Sun" (in turn based on a previous Harrison/Eric Clapton composition, "Badge"). The riff will return later in the medley's track "Carry That Weight". The song's production is notable for prominent use of leslie-amplified, arpeggiated guitar parts, which would become synonymous with the late-era Beatles sound."

Quote:
Do you also dislike Bohemian Rhapsody? You could make a similar argument against it. I know what you mean about McCartney sometimes sounding 'old-timey', I know exactly what you mean, it's there in 'Oh! Darling', sometimes it bothers me and sometimes it doesn't(depends on what kind of mood I'm in), but I don't hear any of it in this particular track.
No, I'm not a fan of Bohemian Rhapsody. And they make mention above about the change in McCartney's vocal approach here. They don't go so far as to call it minstrel, but it sure sounds like it to me. It's a goof, and I think it cheapens the feeling he captures at the beginning of the song.


Quote:
It's well documented the the idea for a medley was originally Paul's. In the Anthology book, John says that he didn't care one way or the other about the medley and that he changed one line in Mean Mr. Mustard - he made Mr. Mustard's sister's name Pam, when it had originally been Shirley - so it would sound like it had something to do with Polythene Pam; the two songs didn't have anything to with each other beforehand. The whole medley is that way, it's a makeshift medley made out of unfinished songs that wouldn't have fit anywhere else. That the whole thing was a makeshift-cut-and-paste job only makes it seem more unique and more brilliant to me. To scrap a bunch of misfit tracks together to form this musical collage, with all these different styles and tones and moods and tempos in such a condensed period of time...it's one of the greatest pieces of recorded pop/rock music ever, imo.
Not to be a prick, but you don't need to tell me about the conception and execution of the medley. I've read a SHITLOAD about the recording and songwriting process for each album. I didn't say it didn't work, I just don't think the whole thing is one long piece. Which brings us to...

Quote:
And I do consider the whole thing a medley; The two things that have always made everything from You Never Give Me Your Money through The End unquestionably a medley in mind are that the band themselves admitted it, and You Never Give Me Your Money's main melody is suddenly reprised by a horn section right in the middle of Carry The Weight. What reason could there have been to do that, other than Paul/the band intentionally wanting to signal the end of the medley by reprising the beginning of it right before the grand finale(The End)? Furthermore, I disagree with the idea that a lack of a segue between two tracks means the whole thing isn't a medley. Take these definitions of the word medley:

"a collection of songs or other musical items performed as a continuous piece : a medley of Beatles songs" - as defined by Oxford American Dictionary (yes, they actually used the Beatles example. I kid you not.)

"a musical composition made up of a series of songs or short pieces" - as defined by merriam-webster.com

"medley is a piece composed from parts of existing pieces, played one after another, sometimes overlapping." - as defined by Wikipedia

I don't see where you get the idea that a segues are necessary in order for it to be a medley. And, like I said before, what really ties the whole thing together as a medley, for me anyway, as opposed to just a series of songs, is the You Never Give Me Your Money reprise in Carry That Weight, and the fact that the band themselves admitted it.
Okay, so what I'm getting from all that is you could make a case for the whole FUCKING ALBUM to be considered a medley. You Never Give Me Your Money is FOUR MINUTES LONG. It is not a short piece. It's TWICE AS LONG as any of the other parts of the medley. And, it SOUNDS FINISHED! But because there's a little instrumental nod to it somewhere, you're arbitrarily making an exception?

Sorry, I can't buy that.
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:05 AM   #943
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Maybe I shouldn't have said Come Together "pales in comparison..." It's not that I hate it but the song is too slow and plodding for my taste. So I end up skipping it and going straight to the more melodious Something.
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:13 AM   #944
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Who was the guy on here that said the Across the Universe covers were superior to the originals?

And can we kill him?
Unpopular musical opinions

Just...well I don't even know what to say about that post. It speaks for itself.
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:14 AM   #945
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Okay, so what I'm getting from all that is you could make a case for the whole FUCKING ALBUM to be considered a medley. You Never Give Me Your Money is FOUR MINUTES LONG. It is not a short piece. It's TWICE AS LONG as any of the other parts of the medley. And, it SOUNDS FINISHED! But because there's a little instrumental nod to it somewhere, you're arbitrarily making an exception?

Sorry, I can't buy that.
Here, you say that You Never Give Me Your Money sounds finished, but before you said it sounded like it was built from several songs - which one is it? You could make the argument that You Never Give Me Your Money itself is a medley of unfinished songs.

About the whole album being considered a medley - that exact thought occurred to me when I typed that out, that using those definitions, any album could be considered a medley. But no one is going to make that argument. While I maintain that you don't need segues between every song to make it a medley, you do need something that connects it all together. And yes, the reprise of You Never Give Me Your Money does that for me; like I said, what other reason was there for that? There's also the fact the Beatles themselves have said that the medley starts with You Never Give Me Your Money.

I don't think we're going to agree on this.
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