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Old 05-14-2015, 09:02 AM   #16
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How would you rank MBDTF vs Kendrick's latest?
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:12 AM   #17
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MBDTF, in my opinion, is a masterpiece. So even as amazing as good kid, m.A.A.d city and To Pimp a Butterfly are, MBDTF still runs rings around them. I've said before that I think MBDTF will be the type of album that people are still talking about in 20, 30 years time.
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Old 05-14-2015, 10:27 AM   #18
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Pimp a Butterfly is one of the more inventive albums I have heard in a long time (from any genre), and the guy has a unique skill to express his intelligence/erudition in a populist way. I'm on record as a critic of MBDTF, I suppose, so probably not a surprise I would take Butterfly over it.
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Old 05-14-2015, 11:09 AM   #19
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Where I think MBDTF has the edge is the actual tunes. Pimp is a very impressive album, but it doesn't have as many memorable hooks IMO. This isn't the sole measuring stick of quality, but it makes me want to return to one more than the other.
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Old 05-14-2015, 01:23 PM   #20
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How would you rank MBDTF vs Kendrick's latest?
1. MBDTF
2. GKMC
3. TPAB

With these three being probably my favorite hip hop albums of the decade so far.

Thing is, I would take Kendrick's last two over most of Kanye's discography and that is extremely high praise. The man is at the start of an incredible run. To Pimp a Butterfly is the measuring stick for 2015 and I really can't imagine being as enthralled by any other record this year. I hope I'm wrong.

MBDTF dominated 2010 for me in the same manner, the only album that came close for me was The Suburbs.
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Old 05-14-2015, 01:26 PM   #21
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Kind of surprised that Spin is still a thing.
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Old 05-15-2015, 05:25 AM   #22
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Pimp a Butterfly is one of the more inventive albums I have heard in a long time (from any genre), and the guy has a unique skill to express his intelligence/erudition in a populist way. I'm on record as a critic of MBDTF, I suppose, so probably not a surprise I would take Butterfly over it.
What is it that you dislike about MBDTF? If I recall correctly you have issues with some of the misogynistic elements of the lyrics? I think one of the most impressive things about MBDTF is how self-aware Kanye is on that record. For a bloke who is very often misconceived by the public, he doesn't get the credit he deserves for his self-awareness. And for a record that is quite honest and personal a lot of the time it's very impressive how big it is in scope and how big and populist it sounds. I could spill endless words on it, honestly.

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Where I think MBDTF has the edge is the actual tunes. Pimp is a very impressive album, but it doesn't have as many memorable hooks IMO. This isn't the sole measuring stick of quality, but it makes me want to return to one more than the other.
Yep, with you on this totally. I still listen to MBDTF, or at the least songs from it, very regularly. I've been listening to Butterfly heaps as well (just an hour or so ago in fact) but it doesn't match up to MBDTF at the moment. Those songs have stood the test of time.
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:37 AM   #23
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What is it that you dislike about MBDTF? If I recall correctly you have issues with some of the misogynistic elements of the lyrics? I think one of the most impressive things about MBDTF is how self-aware Kanye is on that record. For a bloke who is very often misconceived by the public, he doesn't get the credit he deserves for his self-awareness. And for a record that is quite honest and personal a lot of the time it's very impressive how big it is in scope and how big and populist it sounds. I could spill endless words on it, honestly.
My gripe with it is largely thematic, yes. It seems he wants pity for being an asshole while simultaneously reaping all the fame and attention his antics have brought - it makes for a very unappealing portrayal of the guy. And lyrically it takes joy in reveling in all of the worst stereotypes of the genre.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:29 AM   #24
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I think that's overly simplistic. From memory he was reasonably quiet after the Taylor Swift and George Bush incidents leading up to the album, and after its release I don't recall him saying anything outrageous. I don't take any of MBDTF to be seeking pity or sympathy; maybe Blame Game but by and large I think he just threw his foibles out there and balanced it pretty well with his ego. I don't think it's unappealing at all. The opposite in fact. There are hardly any hip-hop artists who are looking inwards (Drake doesn't count), even if it comes with a handy slice of megalomania as well. My fav track, Devil in a New Dress, is a good example of that.

Hood phenomenon, the LeBron of rhyme
Hard to be humble when you stuntin on a jumbotron
I'm lookin at her like 'this what you really wanted huh?'
Well we argue anyway oh I forgot it's summertime

A self-aware look at how life and relationships aren't perfect, told through Kanye's huge world but also maintaining a certain down-to-earth quality.

I also would argue that lyrically it does not take joy in all the worst stereotypes of the genre. There's absolutely times it does, but it's pretty standard and not really any worse than any other hip-hop album. And if I also remember correctly you love Yeezus, which I would argue has more questionable lyrics than MBDTF.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:52 AM   #25
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I don't take any of MBDTF to be seeking pity or sympathy; maybe Blame Game but by and large I think he just threw his foibles out there and balanced it pretty well with his ego.
Not Monster or Runaway? Maybe I'm misinterpreting them, but they both seem to be harping on how misunderstood he ostensibly is. Anyway, I do prefer Yeezus. It's more direct and the emotions more focused, more palpable, even. I think the anger suits him more than the wallowing.
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:13 PM   #26
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1. MBDTF
2. GKMC
3. TPAB

With these three being probably my favorite hip hop albums of the decade so far.

Thing is, I would take Kendrick's last two over most of Kanye's discography and that is extremely high praise. The man is at the start of an incredible run. To Pimp a Butterfly is the measuring stick for 2015 and I really can't imagine being as enthralled by any other record this year. I hope I'm wrong.

MBDTF dominated 2010 for me in the same manner, the only album that came close for me was The Suburbs.

What do you think about Lupe's album this year?
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:24 PM   #27
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What do you think about Lupe's album this year?
Love it. Perhaps a few tracks too many, Chopper is far too long, but it's his third great album. Easily his best beats since The Cool, maybe longer, and he's always lyrically on point. Even LASERS has some good lines on it.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:06 PM   #28
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I like it as well. Mural is stellar.

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Not Monster or Runaway? Maybe I'm misinterpreting them, but they both seem to be harping on how misunderstood he ostensibly is. Anyway, I do prefer Yeezus. It's more direct and the emotions more focused, more palpable, even. I think the anger suits him more than the wallowing.
They do, but I have always got a sense of self-awareness from those songs which prevents them from being just another self-aggrandising statement. In both songs he addresses terms that have been lazily thrown around in terms of his character.

I do agree anger suits him better than wallowing though. Which is why 808s is easily my least fav Kanye album.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:17 PM   #29
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Not exactly an unpopular opinion. I know music is subjective, but I'd laugh in the face of anyone who tried to argue that 808 isn't his weakest album. Not because it's bad, but because of how strong the rest of them are.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:25 PM   #30
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You know, I think 808s is a more cohesive work than Graduation. I like Graduation more because Flashing Lights is on it, but 808s deserves more credit for its sequencing. If it weren't for See You in My Nightmares and Pinocchio Story, I would absolutely rank it above Graduation.
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