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I find it a strange leap of logic that criticising the band means the critic thinks the band owes them something.

Key word there is logic. There's a lot of emotion from a few, and I get that. It's exciting, the band are old fuckers and us fans have no right to expect them to be together, let alone releasing albums.
But I kinda like deciding for myself whether I like a song or not. Logic doesn't say that if I dislike a song, or part of a song, I dislike the band, or the album, or the world, or baby pandas.
 
It's not strange at all. They are simply operating by the mindset that everything is a monetised commercial exchange. If you're bitching it must mean you think you're owed something. Well you're not, buddy. Society doesn't owe you a thing. You oughta be grateful just to be breathing. You should be begging for more pain.
 
Key word there is logic. There's a lot of emotion from a few, and I get that. It's exciting, the band are old fuckers and us fans have no right to expect them to be together, let alone releasing albums.
But I kinda like deciding for myself whether I like a song or not. Logic doesn't say that if I dislike a song, or part of a song, I dislike the band, or the album, or the world, or baby pandas.

There's a weird defensive mindset - or emotion, yeah. I kind of get it. I remember when I was an over-enthusiastic teenager who wanted everybody to like U2. But I was more concerned with going in militantly to fight those non-fans who'd say silly things like "all U2 songs sound the same". Some people definitely have a tendency to want positive reinforcement, you see all these posters saying criticism of a song they like gets them down. But to me it just suggests a lack of confidence in their own tastes. Do you really need somebody else to agree with you that something is good?

It's not strange at all. They are simply operating by the mindset that everything is a monetised commercial exchange. If you're bitching it must mean you think you're owed something. Well you're not, buddy. Society doesn't owe you a thing. You oughta be grateful just to be breathing. You should be begging for more pain.

There's some of that, and it seems to be coupled with this idea that art is a one-way transaction - that the artist works in a bubble creating something, which should be received gratefully by their audience. There's no conception that there might be feedback from fans, or that the artist might consider their audience (especially funny given that U2 obsess over how their music is received, and seem ready to alienate hardcore fans in their pursuit of continued chart glory). But we all know that artists take cues from their audience - continue doing what is received well, stop doing what people don't like. If U2 operated in this pure vacuum that some want to believe they work in, they would never have made Achtung Baby or ATYCLB.

Speaking of working in a vacuum, how about that bonkers guy who was shocked to learn some U2 songs contain samples, and as a result likes them less now.
 
Yeah, there's always a push-and-pull with artists and audiences. But where in earlier times it felt more like a communal affair, these days I think a lot of fans would prefer to see U2 as being like a musical Apple. Which is to say, a commercial cult.

A conspiracy of nope, if you will.
 
Some seem to think if you dislike any recent song - no matter how many other recent songs you may like - you mustn't like any post-2000 U2 (and weren't going to anyway) and should clear the way for a positive opinion reinforcement echo chamber.

Achtung Baby is 26 years old today.
 
I'm more surprised that some of these people like U2 at all. I mean, if you're into You're The Best Thing About Me, I've gotta wonder what you'd make of Achtung Baby or The Unforgettable Fire, or pretty much anything, really.
 
A conspiracy of nope, if you will.

:lmao:

Some seem to think if you dislike any recent song - no matter how many other recent songs you may like - you mustn't like any post-2000 U2 (and weren't going to anyway) and should clear the way for a positive opinion reinforcement echo chamber.

I'm not sure what I have to do to not be branded a hater, other than love literally every song U2 have released in the current millennium.

I'm more surprised that some of these people like U2 at all. I mean, if you're into You're The Best Thing About Me, I've gotta wonder what you'd make of Achtung Baby or The Unforgettable Fire, or pretty much anything, really.

No shit.
 
You're the reason no sing
You're the reason why we can't have nice thing
 
There's a weird defensive mindset - or emotion, yeah. I kind of get it. I remember when I was an over-enthusiastic teenager who wanted everybody to like U2.

That impulse of trying to convert people or whatever is something I have never understood. I guess it reflects U2's general messianic complex in a sense, but the scope of the band's reach shouldn't logically have anything to do with how much someone enjoys the music. I mean, was anyone listening to Bomb back in the day and thinking "It's so awesome that I'm listening to the biggest band in the world right now"?

More baffling to me though are the people who seem to be trying to force themselves into liking the new songs, saying stuff like they were finally enjoying them after doing some kind of mental acrobatics about the meaning or substance of the songs. There is so much music out there, and so readily available. Why not just try something else? It's almost as if people treat the band as a spouse where you're obligated to push through some of the bad times for the sake of the larger relationship, which is a really odd way to look at a commercial exchange with a band.
 
I'm more surprised that some of these people like U2 at all. I mean, if you're into You're The Best Thing About Me, I've gotta wonder what you'd make of Achtung Baby or The Unforgettable Fire, or pretty much anything, really.



This is just as ridiculous as the “logic” you’re bitching against...
 
Jesus, were you just around the corner?
Did you think to try and warn her?
Were you working on something new?
If there's an order in all of this disorder
Is it like a tape recorder?
Can we rewind it just once more?


Man, these lyrics. I'm not even that much focused on lyrics most of the times, but how they've changed in 20 years. Shit.
 
Underrated aspect of Shuttlecock ignoring Pop post-2000: Bono sang in an actual suit of lights and did not play Gone during the 360 tour (I know we have discussed this at length, but I still can't get over it, 8 years later).
 
More baffling to me though are the people who seem to be trying to force themselves into liking the new songs, saying stuff like they were finally enjoying them after doing some kind of mental acrobatics about the meaning or substance of the songs. There is so much music out there, and so readily available. Why not just try something else? It's almost as if people treat the band as a spouse where you're obligated to push through some of the bad times for the sake of the larger relationship, which is a really odd way to look at a commercial exchange with a band.

I think you nailed it, but try posting this in The Other Place, and see the foaming-at-the-mouth defensive replies you'll receive.


Jesus, were you just around the corner?
Did you think to try and warn her?
Were you working on something new?
If there's an order in all of this disorder
Is it like a tape recorder?
Can we rewind it just once more?


Man, these lyrics. I'm not even that much focused on lyrics most of the times, but how they've changed in 20 years. Shit.

Yeah I just posted these myself like a week or so ago, was illustrating an example of Bono writing something personal about his family that wasn't cliched and hackneyed and really resonated with me.
 
Jesus, were you just around the corner?
Did you think to try and warn her?
Were you working on something new?
If there's an order in all of this disorder
Is it like a tape recorder?
Can we rewind it just once more?


Man, these lyrics. I'm not even that much focused on lyrics most of the times, but how they've changed in 20 years. Shit.

I think you nailed it, but try posting this in The Other Place, and see the foaming-at-the-mouth defensive replies you'll receive.




Yeah I just posted these myself like a week or so ago, was illustrating an example of Bono writing something personal about his family that wasn't cliched and hackneyed and really resonated with me.

WUDM is just a great lyrical piece all around. Really dark, thought-provoking stuff. One of their best closers ever.

But I thought Bono had some of his best lyrics in a while on SOI. Just my opinion.

Iris standing in the hall
She tells me I can do it all
Iris wakes to my nightmares
Don’t fear the world it isn’t there

Iris playing on the strand
She buries the boy beneath the sand,
Iris says that I will be the death of her
It was not me


---

We come and go
Stolen days you don't give back
Stolen days are just enough


---

If the door is open it isn’t theft
You can’t return to where you’ve never left
Blossoms falling from a tree they cover you and cover me
Symbols clashing, bibles smashing
Paint the world you need to see
Sometimes fear is the only place we can call home


---

All of The Troubles
 
I posted this a few days ago but didn't get much response, so I'll try again...

B&C Crew:

You may remember that around a year ago I ran a Best Non-Album Track survivor. I've been thinking about doing another one, and it seems like a good time right now, given the holidays coming up and the new album traffic around here.

What I have in mind is a Best Live Track survivor. AKA the white whale of Shuttlecock survivors, that's been discussed often over the years but never done.

I have it all planned out, format and everything. Eligibility would be limited to officially released stuff(meaning full releases like UABRS, R&H, Sydney, etc, non-standalone releases like Paris 87, Vertigo Milan, etc, and live tracks that appeared as b-sides on singles), with selected TV performances and bootlegs to fill in the gaps for songs that never appeared on an official release.

If I elect to go forward with this, there will of course be a much more detailed intro+instructions, but for now, I just want to gauge interest among you all. I haven't even mentioned this in EYKIW yet, because I honestly don't really want to do this if my B&C peeps aren't on board.

I know some have had reservations about this in the past, i.e. will the results really be different enough for a regular U2 studio survivor? Who knows, but I think they might be. Either way, it'd be fun to find out.

What say you?
 
Yes - for those of you who aren't aware - if you visit EYKIW, we have a little ranking project about to kickoff. Feel free to swing on over there to enroll and participate. Still plenty of time to get in on it.
 
I don't know why they would conflict with each other. You have to time a survivor right to get optimal participation, and doing it during the holidays+when a new album is coming is an ideal time.
 
ehh i'm going to have enough u2 to listen to for the next little while going through their entire studio discography over again, putting all the live tracks on top of that at the same time is going to be way too much for me.
 
One of the 2000s lyrics that I really like comes from Invisible, a song that took years for me to even like, but I liked these lyrics right away:

I didn’t even want the heart you broke
It’s yours to keep
You just might need one
 
But I thought Bono had some of his best lyrics in a while on SOI. Just my opinion.



Iris standing in the hall

She tells me I can do it all

Iris wakes to my nightmares

Don’t fear the world it isn’t there



Iris playing on the strand

She buries the boy beneath the sand,

Iris says that I will be the death of her

It was not me


The lyrics are why I love this song, and I admit, I have wept in the car listening to it when I'm feeling beaten down by existing as a human. They call to mind a lot of yoga philosophy, which teaches that we suffer because we forget our true nature/origin.

Once we are born
We begin to forget
The very reason we came


The lines "Don't fear the world, it isn't there" and "The universe is beautiful but cold" line up with the ideas that life is illusory and only has meaning when we supply it. Very much a song that lines up with my personal philosophy.
 
Then you must have a very limited music collection if you don’t think people can like the light hearted pop, the emotional, the experimental, the surface, the depth, and everything in between.

People can like whatever they want to like.

My point was that if this recent stuff - you say lighthearted pop, I say generic fluff that really is not much above shopping-mall soundtrack level - is one's thing, it's surprising to me that one would have gotten into U2 in the first place, because it's not characteristic of their career (and don't say The Sweetest Thing or something, some of us do not have tin ears).
 
More baffling to me though are the people who seem to be trying to force themselves into liking the new songs, saying stuff like they were finally enjoying them after doing some kind of mental acrobatics about the meaning or substance of the songs. There is so much music out there, and so readily available. Why not just try something else? It's almost as if people treat the band as a spouse where you're obligated to push through some of the bad times for the sake of the larger relationship, which is a really odd way to look at a commercial exchange with a band.

I think you nailed it, but try posting this in The Other Place, and see the foaming-at-the-mouth defensive replies you'll receive.

I actually sometimes view you as one of the people in this category, Laz... granted, you aren't nearly as bad as some people in that forum, but I would view you as perhaps this little crew's biggest evangelist.
 
That impulse of trying to convert people or whatever is something I have never understood. I guess it reflects U2's general messianic complex in a sense, but the scope of the band's reach shouldn't logically have anything to do with how much someone enjoys the music. I mean, was anyone listening to Bomb back in the day and thinking "It's so awesome that I'm listening to the biggest band in the world right now"?

More baffling to me though are the people who seem to be trying to force themselves into liking the new songs, saying stuff like they were finally enjoying them after doing some kind of mental acrobatics about the meaning or substance of the songs. There is so much music out there, and so readily available. Why not just try something else? It's almost as if people treat the band as a spouse where you're obligated to push through some of the bad times for the sake of the larger relationship, which is a really odd way to look at a commercial exchange with a band.

I think the motivation to "convert" people to the band is more motivated by a desire to share something that you love, and an assumption that everybody else will love it too. But when it becomes tied up in some sort of pride about the band's global stature, it's rather strange. I suppose it's like following a sports team and wanting it to be dominant at a World Cup or within its league or whatever.

And I can't believe the amount of times some people are playing songs they profess to dislike initially. If I don't like a song the first or second time, it sure as shit won't be getting a tenth or twentieth chance.

Underrated aspect of Shuttlecock ignoring Pop post-2000: Bono sang in an actual suit of lights and did not play Gone during the 360 tour (I know we have discussed this at length, but I still can't get over it, 8 years later).

I hope somebody one day asks the band what the fuck they were thinking.

One of the 2000s lyrics that I really like comes from Invisible, a song that took years for me to even like, but I liked these lyrics right away:

I didn’t even want the heart you broke
It’s yours to keep
You just might need one

I've never rated Invisible as highly as many of you here, but agreed, I've always rated that as one of Bono's better lyrics of recent times.
 
Agreed with Ax about the motivation to convert.

Though I think it's worthless to try to convert someone whose opinion is settled. Maybe introducing to people who don't know much.
 
Also I'm perfectly happy to have a Survivor and LN7's survey on at the same time. Very different things and we need more activity on EYKIW.
 
I actually sometimes view you as one of the people in this category, Laz... granted, you aren't nearly as bad as some people in that forum, but I would view you as perhaps this little crew's biggest evangelist.

?? Care to tell me what stuff I'm forcing myself to like? The songs I originally had problems with on SOI have not improved themselves in my eyes. I still strongly dislike the chorus of Iris, have replaced EBW with the earlier version for my playlist, and still think the guitar solo in SFS is abysmal.

As for the new stuff, the only song I've listened to more than once is the live version of The Blackout. I'm waiting until the album goes out to hear the others again because they really did not appeal to me.
 
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