Random Music Talk CXXIII: Cilantro Lover's Club

[LuckyNumber7]

And yet there are loads and loads of people acting betrayed over this album, claiming Chvrches are trying too hard for a radio hit. I can see both sides; some tracks sound like them, whereas others (like Miracle) are desperate cash grabs.

“Desperate cash grab” is a bit of a stretch. This isn’t post-2003 Scott Stapp. I highly doubt this particular single had any more of a poppy single intent than their other singles. This one just isn’t as good.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

lolwut

My point was clear and to the point but I will rephrase. I find it interesting that many of the same people on this site who bash U2's 2000's output for being too poppy, structured, focused on getting hits...etc would give such glowing praise for a song as generic and cliched as Chvrches "Get Out." That's it. This is saying nothing of the rest of their discography, just that song in particular which I can't stand in the same way I feel about "Thunder." Usually I'm not bothered enough to say anything, but Alt-Nation played the thing so damn much that I couldn't avoid it. They seem to have really cut it's spin time down drastically lately which is a good thing.

 

[Mack_Again]

 

[U2inUtah]

It sounds like Chvrches will win Best B&C album of 2018 by a slimmer margin this year

 

[nielsgov]

I'm so happy right now I want to fucking cry. DESTROYER ARE TOURING. And they're fucking playing at the venue down the road from my house. I never thought this day would come [emoji813]

Great news!

I'm ashamed to say I skipped him on this tour because I'm not the biggest fan of Ken.

 

[nielsgov]

I've said this before, but I'll say it again: I just don't understand the hype about CHVRCHES over here... They're the definition of an average band. Pleasant to listen to, but nothing more.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I don’t understand how you can take your opinion and blanket it as a fact. They’re not the definition of anything. Some people like them more than you. I don’t understand why people like REM so much? I don’t think I therefore have a definition of their level of interestingness or talent.

 

[LemonMelon]

Objectively, there are a thousand bands that sound exactly like them and they weren't the first by any means. REM actually broke ground during their time and were extremely influential. That's one way to separate the two bands.

As far as quality goes, obviously it's all opinion.

 

[nielsgov]

I don’t understand how you can take your opinion and blanket it as a fact. They’re not the definition of anything. Some people like them more than you. I don’t understand why people like REM so much? I don’t think I therefore have a definition of their level of interestingness or talent.

Of course it is just my opinion. I think that should be clear on a message board.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Objectively, there are a thousand bands that sound exactly like them and they weren't the first by any means. REM actually broke ground during their time and were extremely influential. That's one way to separate the two bands.

As far as quality goes, obviously it's all opinion.

“Objectively, my perception is that...”

Come on now.

The thing about an opinion of quality is that, well, it’s an opinion. You can try your best to qualify it. You can offer good reasons. But it’s not like saying “oh hey, we measured REM and they’re 6 musics, and CHVRCHES, they’re more like 2.5 musics.”

My point is that you don’t have to separate them. I respect everything about REM and acknowledge the relationship between the kinds of music I like and them. I respect that people can find it very attractive to their ears and styles. It’s just not me? I just don’t really have a yearning to listen to it. I love CHVRCHES though. Subjectively, I think it’s a lot better. I know now that I perhaps misinterpreted the meaning of the post that sparked me a little bit, but in general, I don’t think you can *define* CHVRCHES as an ‘average band’ as your sort of confusion of why people like them.

Put more clearly, what I read/interpreted was “I don’t know why people like them so much - objectively they are mediocre.”

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

And yet there are loads and loads of people acting betrayed over this album, claiming Chvrches are trying too hard for a radio hit. I can see both sides; some tracks sound like them, whereas others (like Miracle) are desperate cash grabs.

I ca't speak to the Chvrches album specifically, as I haven't heard it-like a couple other people here, I think I've only heard a song or two by them thus far (though I do like what I have heard).

But I see that complaint in regards to a lot of indie/alternative bands who go a bit poppy, and every time I hear that, I'm just left thinking, "Wow, those people are clearly living in an area of the country that's got far more adventurous and diverse radio stations than I do." I'd be thrilled if I could hear more of my favorite indie/alternative bands, period, on a regular basis on a radio station.

 

[LemonMelon]

I think one can make a pretty strong, informed argument that Chvrches is redundant. They may or may not be a standout in that particular domain, but theirs is a very, very crowded field that they hopped into fairly late. When comparing them to a legendary band like REM that broke ground for hundreds of ripoffs, in terms of talent and appeal, one has to concede a bit of room to the band that changed music in a meaningful way. Tracking that back to some objective measure of talent is, of course, a fool's errand.

I don't even hate Chvrches or anything like that, but I absolutely get how someone could listen to them and find them average. They do blend into the background. That's partially why their success in the B&C year end polls has become a running joke. They're a decent band, but really?

I'm sounding like Laz, bringing up matters of objectivity like this. I promise I won't bring in Christgau.

I ca't speak to the Chvrches album specifically, as I haven't heard it-like a couple other people here, I think I've only heard a song or two by them thus far (though I do like what I have heard).

But I see that complaint in regards to a lot of indie/alternative bands who go a bit poppy, and every time I hear that, I'm just left thinking, "Wow, those people are clearly living in an area of the country that's got far more adventurous and diverse radio stations than I do." I'd be thrilled if I could hear more of my favorite indie/alternative bands, period, on a regular basis on a radio station.

Chvrches are actually tapping into awful Imagine Dragons and Halsey sounding shit at times on this album. It's a really bad look. Mostly it's their usual sound, but you can hear them reaching a bit.

But yeah, what you describe does happen a lot. I saw people describing the new Janelle Monae album as generic pop and could only shake my head.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

But it’s not an argument. It’s an opinion. It doesn’t matter how informed you are. And who “ripped” who off has absolutely zero standing in quality of music. That might be *your* reason for your opinion. It doesn’t objectify anything.

 

[lazarus]

I'm sounding like Laz, bringing up matters of objectivity like this. I promise I won't bring in Christgau.

Glad you brought ol' Bob up! He really likes the new Frankie Cosmos, and proves once again that he can say more in one paragraph than all the idiots at Pitchfork can with a whole bunch:


Frankie Cosmos: Vessel (Sub Pop) Because it takes guts to get up there and sing your songs, we expect toughness from the women now achieving indie-rock parity. So Greta Kline's fragility may seem cutesy or calculated rather than the forthright aesthetic signature it is. Of course she's self-conscious about the fragility of the fluting ditties that pour out of her body-that's-a-burden, 18 tunelets on parade on this 33-minute breakout moment. How could she not be? But that doesn't make her fixation on the romantic love she's so insecure about anything like shtick. Immerse in her tiny reflections and glimmers of self-realization and ask yourself just how secure all the 24-year-olds with tougher fronts feel as they fuck around or choose their mate—cynical or carnal, enraged or disengaged, you know they get scared themselves. Kline's quietude takes guts too—more, maybe.
A MINUS

 

[Joey788]

Gorillaz are back with a new album already. The Now Now is due out June 29. I already like this first single more than 90% of Humanz.

 

[cobl04]

^that is cool - I never listened to Humanz tho.

LN7 we are SURELY past the point where we need to point out "it's your opinion". We all know this is just opinion. It goes without saying.

I've never been interested in CHVRCHES, I heard a snippet of Get Out on the radio last night and didn't really like it, but I'm really into how Matt Berninger sounds on My Enemy.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

LN7 we are SURELY past the point where we need to point out "it's your opinion". We all know this is just opinion. It goes without saying.

SURELY not if every statement of “it’s just an opinion” is met with “yes, but.”

Come up with whatever strictly not-objective bullshit you want; it’s unnecessarily elitism with your music.

 

[Mack_Again]

But it’s not an argument. It’s an opinion.

oh man have you ever visited /mu/?

 

[Axver]

And yet there are loads and loads of people acting betrayed over this album, claiming Chvrches are trying too hard for a radio hit. I can see both sides; some tracks sound like them, whereas others (like Miracle) are desperate cash grabs.

If they were trying to desperately grab cash, you'd think it'd have been the lead single.

I still can't remember what that song sounds like and I've played the album about five or six times now, so make of that what you will.

seriously who cares about some synth pop when Failure is coming out with a new album and they already released 2 EPs that would be a part of the album?

Who cares about Failure? I mean, shit, I move in circles where their music would be popular and some reunion album is hardly the talk of the town.

But keep trying to prove you listen to more niche music.

My point was clear and to the point but I will rephrase. I find it interesting that many of the same people on this site who bash U2's 2000's output for being too poppy, structured, focused on getting hits...etc would give such glowing praise for a song as generic and cliched as Chvrches "Get Out." That's it. This is saying nothing of the rest of their discography, just that song in particular which I can't stand in the same way I feel about "Thunder." Usually I'm not bothered enough to say anything, but Alt-Nation played the thing so damn much that I couldn't avoid it. They seem to have really cut it's spin time down drastically lately which is a good thing.

I can only speak for myself, but I haven't criticised U2 for being poppy, I've criticised them for writing bad songs and self-consciously chasing a bad target. U2 have always written pop songs. I love me some synthpop bangers, which for one thing isn't what U2 are trying to make anyway.

I think one can make a pretty strong, informed argument that Chvrches is redundant. They may or may not be a standout in that particular domain, but theirs is a very, very crowded field that they hopped into fairly late. When comparing them to a legendary band like REM that broke ground for hundreds of ripoffs, in terms of talent and appeal, one has to concede a bit of room to the band that changed music in a meaningful way. Tracking that back to some objective measure of talent is, of course, a fool's errand.

I don't even hate Chvrches or anything like that, but I absolutely get how someone could listen to them and find them average. They do blend into the background. That's partially why their success in the B&C year end polls has become a running joke. They're a decent band, but really?

How the sweet fuck can a band be "redundant"? You of all people know that's a silly thing to say.

I think the thing about Chvrches is that they first appealled to a different crowd. They brought in post-rock and metal fans who otherwise wouldn't have thought to listen to such a band, since Iain and Martin were best known for Aereogramme. And they had exactly the aesthetic to appeal to people from certain synth-y ends of the indie hipster spectrum, especially those who had been into chillwave and witch house and welcomed some more straight-forward bangers, and those who missed Ladytron. Stuff like The Mother We Share might be more direct synthpop, but if you'd been hanging around smelly alternative clubs or indie pubs listening to bands mess around with synths, Chvrches had relatable themes and aesthetics. Their first gig at a club in Melbourne was a strange mix of people I saw at those sort of gigs, and Triple J kiddies who'd clicked that this would be the next big thing. And then with Lauren Mayberry being assertive about feminism and women's rights, well that further expanded the appeal. You couldn't design a band this well suited to Tumblr, let's be real.

Perhaps now they're crossing over to the Imagine Dragons sort of crowd. They've certainly struck something lately in Australia. Their previous tours were in clubs of about 800 or theatres of about 1,500-2,000, but this time it's small arenas that hold 5,000-7,000.

 

[Mack_Again]

come on guys, who made our resident historian angry?

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

come on guys, who made our resident historian angry?

Axver is most certainly not THE HISTORIAN.

 

[Hewson]

Those who historically drink 1,000 beers are doomed to repeat it.

 

[gump]

Axver is most certainly not THE HISTORIAN.

Seriously.

 

[Mack_Again]

tbh Ax would do pretty well in /mu/

 

[cobl04]

where's the fucking album ye

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

I'm listening to it right now man. It's out. It's also really weird.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

It's soooooo short, too. Damn.

 

[bono_212]

I did not mean to bring about the RMT apocalypse by mentioning I loved the new Chvrches album. Damn.

Also, I love Frankie Cosmos, so thanks for the reminder to hear the new one, laz.

 

[cobl04]

Unpopular opinion: I cannot fuck with Blonde anywhere near as much as I do Channel Orange.

 

[Axver]

Guys, I'm barely even annoyed, nor am I particularly invested in that album. It's just a bit of good fun and I like kicking bad takes.

And I would never claim to be "the" historian. I, for one, have heard The Fly live.