Random Music Talk CXXII: 2018 It Is

[Kieran McConville]

I'll be honest, I've got no dog in this fight (don't care about Kanye). But I am intrigued by the ever elaborating efflorescence of monikers for members of the Kanye West fan community.

 

[Kieran McConville]

So....do classical music fans not listen to Wager?

It's tricky.

I mean that literally. Tricky is the one classical music fan in the world who does not listen to Wagner.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Just going to momentarily interrupt the Kanye talk to give you an update on the next 30 seconds of the Sting/Shaggy record. I sat back down at my computer, saw the tab with the album was still open, decided to give it another try. More hip-hop horns, I pushed through. More generic pop beats and production tricks. I pushed through. Then Sting started singing....


...I have put the album back on pause.

I hope Sting 2 has remembered to pick up a copy of this.

 

[iron yuppie]

Sigh.... it sucks. It's been a horrific week for us Ye stans.

Firstly, I want to say that I'm a giant hypocrite. Were this Vampire Weekend, for example, or any sort of band I'm not really into or think is overrated, I would absolutely be leading the pile on. I would be constantly tweeting and facebooking and being all smug about it. No doubt whatsoever.

But because it's Kanye, an artist I love so fucking much, I've been silent. I'm waiting it out... hoping that there will be some kind of reveal that explains it all and makes it okay again.

LM, I hear you. I'm sitting here saying much the same - "far-right sympathiser" does seem like a huge stretch based on the tweets, and he's done a lot of qualifying. And his history shows he's good with this stuff - George Bush, Murder in Excellence, New Slaves, many more.

But I'm only saying that because it's Kanye. He tweeted a fucking signed MAGA hat with a million fire emojis. He took a meeting with Trump. He's got fucking Alex Jones and PrisonFuckwit and all these conservative cunts - who have never once remotely been interested in Kanye and in fact have constantly shit on the Kardashians - shitting themselves falling over each other to profess their love for him. He's posting screenshots of messages from friends that probably were meant for private consumption. He's acting like a fucking arsehole and hiding it all behind some pseudo-philosophical bullshit, and iYup nailed it - it's because he's got an album out in a month's time and this is his tried-and-true pattern. But this time it's different. It can't be explained away as easily as it has been in the past.

He's just put out a troll track on his website ffs.

I'm holding out hope... but I don't know what's gonna happen. Chance getting tied up in it too is heartbreaking. I don't know what's gonna happen with my fandom. I'm upset.

I appreciate this post bc I'm in the same basic boat with Morrissey. I love The Smiths and a lot of his solo work dearly, but I simply can't apologize for him anymore. The thing that makes Kanye stand out as problematic beyond so many of the others that have been mentioned is his audience and platform are so large.

 

[u2popmofo]

.

Spoiler

 

[martha]

So....do classical music fans not listen to Wager?

It can be difficult. He was an anti-Semite of the first degree, and was an absolutely horrible person by anyone's standards. He didn't do it to sell music. He really was that horrible.



But that music, tho.


Sent from my iPad using U2 Interference

 

[BVS]

Man, you've gotta reach pretty hard to connect tweeting a signed MAGA hat to normalizing racism in America, especially when his own lyrics have endorsed the exact opposite countless times.

It goes far beyond that signed hat. It all started with his Candace tweet, who is a black far right Trumpist who does everything she can to appease the Neanderthals of the party, from dismissing racism and the blm movement to calling the me too movement prostitutes. He’s become a maga hero, and basically became the example of ‘see there’s no racism’. Don’t sweep this under the rug just because you’re a fan.

 

[LemonMelon]

It goes far beyond that signed hat. It all started with his Candace tweet, who is a black far right Trumpist who does everything she can to appease the Neanderthals of the party, from dismissing racism and the blm movement to calling the me too movement prostitutes. He’s become a maga hero, and basically became the example of ‘see there’s no racism’. Don’t sweep this under the rug just because you’re a fan.

I'm keenly aware of the Candace tweet, as well as the subsequent ones that make clear why he felt that way. She believes a lot of horseshit that can be tied in with "I love the way she thinks," but the main focus here is her focus on blacks "thinking for themselves" by leaving racism "in the past."

It's unsurprising that Kanye would go to bat for someone like this, as he is under the unfortunate impression that the endgame for human civilization is free thought and expression, not character or empathy, so he's willing to co-sign anyone who bangs the "free thinker" drum. Further, when his most tightly-clung personal example of institutional racism is the fashion industry allegedly keeping him at arm's length, it's quite clear that his basis for speaking on racism's impact on lower classes is very different from other, poorer, more grounded black men and women (i.e. nonexistent).

In a vacuum, his statements are offensive but have ideological consistency going back to his early career if you look at them entirely through an anti-political-correctness lens. He's always been that guy and I can understand how someone so childlike and naive could take the MAGA bait without seeing the bigger picture.

And I guess this is the point where I'm supposed to jump off the bandwagon and follow my moral compass, but I'm not willing to go as far as some of you to say that Kanye's influence could lead to some very harmful consequences. I would argue that whatever reach he possesses is partially undermined by his erratic behavior and stint in a mental institution. I want to believe that most people know Kanye is not the best role model in 2018, but I know that's not realistic. Surely his statements will have an impact on the ideology of his fans. But, rest assured, they have none on mine.

A last word on this: I have close personal experience with many people who got suckered into the MAGA hype and are only just now finding their way out. I couldn't cut them out of my life fully and I'm glad I didn't. I guess you can draw a parallel there between family, friends, and a musician that I've admired since I was 15 years old. But this is only the courtesy of analysis that I'm offering Kanye on account of sentiment; I'm not co-signing him as a role model the way I used to. And it's a shame, because he has such an enormous reach.

 

[BVS]

I'm keenly aware of the Candace tweet, as well as the subsequent ones that make clear why he felt that way. She believes a lot of horseshit that can be tied in with "I love the way she thinks," but the main focus here is her focus on blacks "thinking for themselves" by leaving racism "in the past."

It's unsurprising that Kanye would go to bat for someone like this, as he is under the unfortunate impression that the endgame for human civilization is free thought and expression, not character or empathy, so he's willing to co-sign anyone who bangs the "free thinker" drum. Further, when his most tightly-clung personal example of institutional racism is the fashion industry allegedly keeping him at arm's length, it's quite clear that his basis for speaking on racism's impact on lower classes is very different from other, poorer, more grounded black men and women (i.e. nonexistent).

In a vacuum, his statements are offensive but have ideological consistency going back to his early career if you look at them entirely through an anti-political-correctness lens. He's always been that guy and I can understand how someone so childlike and naive could take the MAGA bait without seeing the bigger picture.

And I guess this is the point where I'm supposed to jump off the bandwagon and follow my moral compass, but I'm not willing to go as far as some of you to say that Kanye's influence could lead to some very harmful consequences. I would argue that whatever reach he possesses is partially undermined by his erratic behavior and stint in a mental institution. I want to believe that most people know Kanye is not the best role model in 2018, but I know that's not realistic. Surely his statements will have an impact on the ideology of his fans. But, rest assured, they have none on mine.

A last word on this: I have close personal experience with many people who got suckered into the MAGA hype and are only just now finding their way out. I couldn't cut them out of my life fully and I'm glad I didn't. I guess you can draw a parallel there between family, friends, and a musician that I've admired since I was 15 years old. But this is only the courtesy of analysis that I'm offering Kanye on account of sentiment; I'm not co-signing him as a role model the way I used to. And it's a shame, because he has such an enormous reach.

[emoji106] great post

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

A last word on this: I have close personal experience with many people who got suckered into the MAGA hype and are only just now finding their way out. I couldn't cut them out of my life fully and I'm glad I didn't. I guess you can draw a parallel there between family, friends, and a musician that I've admired since I was 15 years old.

I like this comparison. I have relatives and know other people who went for Trump, too, and I just find it sad more than anything. Given how devoted Trump supporters can be to the guy, I kinda liken it to realizing somebody you care about wound up in a cult. You wonder how they got sucked in and yet still hope they can get out at some point.

As for the whole Kanye debate, I don't mind a few of his songs, and acknowledge his overall talent, but I don't follow him or his career any more closely beyond that, so I, like Kieran, have no personal stake in this. But I do totally understand wrestling with those feelings anyway-if any musicians I'm a fan of came out in support of Trump, I'd feel weird about it, too. So I get what Kanye's fans are feeling on that level.

And on that note...

Firstly, I want to say that I'm a giant hypocrite. Were this Vampire Weekend, for example, or any sort of band I'm not really into or think is overrated, I would absolutely be leading the pile on. I would be constantly tweeting and facebooking and being all smug about it. No doubt whatsoever.

I know the general point you were making here, of course (and I too would be a total hypocrite if I were in a similar situation!), but speaking as somebody who does like Vampire Weekend, just the mention of them as a possible example in your post amused me regardless, 'cause they're probably some of the very last people who'll ever go on and support Trump . Which is especially funny considering one of them's a cousin or something to Scott Baio.

The thing I always get a kick out of in moments when people like Kanye, or Ted Nugent, or Tim Allen, or whomever, get all political like this, is how you never hear the right tell those people to just "shut up and sing/act and quit preaching politics to us". No, they only ever seem to reserve that complaint for celebrities who speak out on liberal causes, or support liberal politicians. Funny, that.

 

[cobl04]

Exactly Angela

And great post LM, on ya for taking the time to type it all out.

He tweeted a pic of Emma Gonzalez and now all the conservatives have lost their fucking minds, which is absolutely hilarious. They liked him for two days lol.

 

[intedomine]

I appreciate this post bc I'm in the same basic boat with Morrissey. I love The Smiths and a lot of his solo work dearly, but I simply can't apologize for him anymore. The thing that makes Kanye stand out as problematic beyond so many of the others that have been mentioned is his audience and platform are so large.

Yeah, echoing this in many ways. With Moz it seems like a trolling erratic old geezer clutching at any opportunity he sees to snare a headline - but no one really cares, except his fans who feel betrayed.

Kanye is more troubling due to how the right can effectively use him to crossover to his younger, impressionable fan base.

I hope both of them reflect regrettably on these episodes of their careers, but they are both so proud and stubborn, it is is hard to imagine this actually happening.

 

[DaveC]

Questlove Wears "Kanye Doesn't Care About Black People" Shirt - XXL

questlove is the best

 

[cobl04]

That’s incredible wow.

 

[martha]

Heh heh. I like that.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

It should probably say "Kanye West doesn't care about black people" to more accurately mirror the original infamous quote, but that's just my opinion.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

That’s what it says...?

 

[LemonMelon]

George Bush

Kanye West

There's no last name on the shirt.

 

[cobl04]

God we have some good times in here don't we.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

Haha

 

[david]

Am I the only one that doesn’t mind the plodding and meandering nature of the new A Perfect Circle album?

 

[BoMac]

Re: Kanye

Where was this a month ago? Four months ago? Six months ago? It’s not lost on anyone that he has an album cycle coming, and it’s no coincidence that he’s drumming up publicity with his insane statements. If he genuinely believes this then that’s one thing. But if he’s doing it simply to sell records, then I can’t forgive that, not when his statements have real world consequences.

 

[lazarus]

He really doubled down with this "slavery was a choice" thing. That is some next-level trolling or he's even more of an idiot than we thought.

If this is how his career flames out, couldn't have happened to a bigger asshole.

 

[cobl04]

The clip of the bloke roasting him afterwards and Kanye having to stand there and cop it is fucking fantastic.

This shit is beyond the pale now.

 

[DaveC]

yea i'm certainly not going to defend this shit anymore, whether it's all just an act for record sales or he truly believes it.

considering how diametrically opposed this is to so much of his lyrics, i feel like this is either a stunt that has gone way too far, or his mental health has taken a turn for the worse. it's really confusing.

 

[cobl04]

That's what I'm struggling with, too. LM was bang on. He has such a long history of being on the money with this shit... Gorgeous, New Slaves, Murder to Excellence...

I mean perhaps he does believe it and we're all being a bit unfair talking about his mental health given we're all pretty left-wing... but it just doesn't make sense and it's quite saddening.

 

[LemonMelon]

He doesn't believe this shit. He's given zero specifics about anything political ("I love Trump, but I disagree with him on some things, and I love Hillary too!"??) and is just doubling down on being a troll because we live in a nation controlled by trolls, to whom he apparently holds great admiration. And that's certainly in character for him.

But I can't believe anyone really buys the idea of Kanye the Republican. As if he cares about Trump's wall, Syrian refugees, infrastructure, etc. Of course, that doesn't stop people from parroting the rhetoric, so it is still harmful in its own way.

 

[DaveC]

regardless of how far these antics go, i'll be a liar if i say i'm not listening to his new album day one.

 

[cobl04]

He doesn't believe this shit. He's given zero specifics about anything political ("I love Trump, but I disagree with him on some things, and I love Hillary too!"??) and is just doubling down on being a troll because we live in a nation controlled by trolls, to whom he apparently holds great admiration. And that's certainly in character for him.

But I can't believe anyone really buys the idea of Kanye the Republican. As if he cares about Trump's wall, Syrian refugees, infrastructure, etc. Of course, that doesn't stop people from parroting the rhetoric, so it is still harmful in its own way.

He said slavery was a choice, man. That's not trolling that we can just swat away. That's some seriously dangerous shit.

 

[corianderstem]

I choose not to pay attention to him.


It's nice.