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Old 07-04-2007, 05:19 AM   #286
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Not too much controversy, I don't think. I distinctly recall hearing an interview with Roger where he mentioned something about In The Flesh, but I can't really remember it all now. It was something about people taking the lyrics seriously, assuming he hated Jews or whatever, and how he thought it was completely silly of them to think that because the lyrics were written from the point of view of a fictional character, i.e. not reflective of his views at all. People were far more upset with the "we don't need no education, we don't need no thought control" line from Another Brick In The Wall Part 2. It was banned in a few countries.

Best place for Floyd bootlegs: http://www.yeeshkul.com
Wow, you seriously rock!!!
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Old 07-04-2007, 10:47 AM   #287
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He's mellowed a lot. I think he's a nice guy who has been unfairly portrayed as a grumpy old bastard in the media. Remember, it always takes more than one person to have a fight.
That he has mellowed recently is certainly true; but I think it undeniable that for a time his arrogance and generally acrimonious nature were conspicuous. Interviews with him from the 80s and 90s are almost uniformly critical of Dave and reflect a deep resentment of the continuation of the band under the name of Pink Floyd. If, as it seems to me, he did expect the entire band to cease to exist in his absence, there is no better indication of his general arrogance and self-righteousness. Interviews also exist where Rick claims that he sometimes attempted to reconcile with Roger, only to be completely ignored or blatantly eschewed.
Having said that, those aspects of Roger's character are also responsible for making him such an incredible lyricist and conceptualist; the cynicism and general acrimony towards many segments of society are really the driving forces behind Animals, The Wall, The Final Cut, and Amused to Death. What more pessimistic and caustic songs are there than It's a Miracle and Amused to Death? Only in recent years has some semblance of optimism appeared in his work, as in Each Small Candle and Leaving Beirut. Nonetheless, I appreciate the man endlessly; I just do not believe that I would like to have dinner with him. It is certainly also true that Dave deserves much more blame than he receives for the prolonged feuding; he is just so damn urbane that it becomes difficult to believe that he could have possibly had any major role in it.
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Old 07-04-2007, 12:07 PM   #288
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That he has mellowed recently is certainly true; but I think it undeniable that for a time his arrogance and generally acrimonious nature were conspicuous. Interviews with him from the 80s and 90s are almost uniformly critical of Dave and reflect a deep resentment of the continuation of the band under the name of Pink Floyd. If, as it seems to me, he did expect the entire band to cease to exist in his absence, there is no better indication of his general arrogance and self-righteousness.
We'll considering that he'd written most of the last two albums, I think it was fair for him to not allow the band to keep the name or least attempt that. His writing on Animals, The Wall and The Final Cut made Pink Floyd very much Roger's band. It would be like if Sting left The Police but the other two continue on with the name even though Sting is the main songwriter. Roger's demand wasn't unfair. For Dave to go against Roger while not being the central songwriter was where the true arrogance was. Being critical of a man who does something like isn't anything bad. It's a human and understandable.

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Interviews also exist where Rick claims that he sometimes attempted to reconcile with Roger, only to be completely ignored or blatantly eschewed.
When someone hurts you like Dave's keeping of the name, you're not going to open and friendly to even the mere suggestion of reconciliation.

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Having said that, those aspects of Roger's character are also responsible for making him such an incredible lyricist and conceptualist; the cynicism and general acrimony towards many segments of society are really the driving forces behind Animals, The Wall, The Final Cut, and Amused to Death. What more pessimistic and caustic songs are there than It's a Miracle and Amused to Death? Only in recent years has some semblance of optimism appeared in his work, as in Each Small Candle and Leaving Beirut. Nonetheless, I appreciate the man endlessly; I just do not believe that I would like to have dinner with him.
I think you are confusing the art with the artist here. Roger is a great writer because he can remove himself from the songs. I don't think Roger is anything like Pink for instance but on The Wall he becomes Pink. A person's art is often nothing like their actual personality. For example, Bono isn't a messianic person it just appears so because his music is that way. I also believe that his music is abstractly optimisic. I sort of explained that earlier in this thread.
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Old 07-04-2007, 12:42 PM   #289
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I think you are confusing the art with the artist here. Roger is a great writer because he can remove himself from the songs. I don't think Roger is anything like Pink for instance but on The Wall he becomes Pink. A person's art is often nothing like their actual personality. For example, Bono isn't a messianic person it just appears so because his music is that way. I also believe that his music is abstractly optimisic. I sort of explained that earlier in this thread.
This is a nice point, but I think that a fairly strong argument can be made for The Wall being at least semi-autobiographical, and that the character of Pink, through his actions, reflects many of Roger's latent fears and insecurities about the path that he was treading at the time (disconnection from the audience, difficulty establishing intimate relationships, extreme disillusionment, egomaniacal musings, etc.). At the time of its release, some of these were becoming conspicuous, as in his begrudging treatment of his bandmates. To this one might add the themes of a deceased father, an overbearing, dogmatic education in post-war England, and marital problems, which all reflect Roger's struggles in his own life. At its core, The Wall is highly introspective, which I think a lot of people overlook when they accuse it of being pompous and bombastic. It was a man admitting and battling many of his personal demons in a loosely veiled fashion- or at least this is my interpretation.
As for the feud, a case can be made that Dave was as integral to Pink Floyd as Roger, which I think is made clear by the manner in which both of their later works suffer from the absence of the other. In Roger's case, the music lacks the majesty of Floyd, while Dave's Floyd and solo work severely lacks the lyrical brilliance of Waters. Both then sought to rectify the respective absences; Waters by turning to Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck, and Gilmour by employing a myriad of lyricists. Furthermore, Dave made writing contributions to both Animals and The Wall in very integral places; according to him, they would have been more numerous, had Roger not rejected many of his ideas in favor of more story-centered pieces. Of course, there is no way to substantiate this, nor to justify either of them in their petulance. Essentially, I believe that both parties were guilty of undervaluing the contributions of the other.
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Old 07-04-2007, 01:30 PM   #290
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Originally posted by cdisantis83


This is a nice point, but I think that a fairly strong argument can be made for The Wall being at least semi-autobiographical, and that the character of Pink, through his actions, reflects many of Roger's latent fears and insecurities about the path that he was treading at the time (disconnection from the audience, difficulty establishing intimate relationships, extreme disillusionment, egomaniacal musings, etc.). At the time of its release, some of these were becoming conspicuous, as in his begrudging treatment of his bandmates. To this one might add the themes of a deceased father, an overbearing, dogmatic education in post-war England, and marital problems, which all reflect Roger's struggles in his own life. At its core, The Wall is highly introspective, which I think a lot of people overlook when they accuse it of being pompous and bombastic. It was a man admitting and battling many of his personal demons in a loosely veiled fashion- or at least this is my interpretation.
As for the feud, a case can be made that Dave was as integral to Pink Floyd as Roger, which I think is made clear by the manner in which both of their later works suffer from the absence of the other. In Roger's case, the music lacks the majesty of Floyd, while Dave's Floyd and solo work severely lacks the lyrical brilliance of Waters. Both then sought to rectify the respective absences; Waters by turning to Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck, and Gilmour by employing a myriad of lyricists. Furthermore, Dave made writing contributions to both Animals and The Wall in very integral places; according to him, they would have been more numerous, had Roger not rejected many of his ideas in favor of more story-centered pieces. Of course, there is no way to substantiate this, nor to justify either of them in their petulance. Essentially, I believe that both parties were guilty of undervaluing the contributions of the other.
See I think The Wall is more of a play on Syd than Roger. I think the various elements reflective of Roger's life are more of a coating over the real subject. Pink seems to be what Roger would be like if he had Syd's problems. It is a fantasy of a possibility but not autobiographical. I hope that makes sense.
I think for a long time Dave was an important part but over those last three albums his role became greatly diminished. On the flipside, I think Roger became so much more important because of the absence of the other members when it came to songwriting and ideas. He became Pink Floyd when the other members stopped bringing in the great ideas. It became his band at that point. The pathetic Momentary Lapse of Reason reflects where the band was without him. So it is a lot easier to say that Roger was the important part of the band. I do agree though that they could have used each other in their solo work. Could you imagine Amused To Death will Dave or On An Island with Roger's ideas? It always seemed that Roger was the bombastic poet while Dave was more of a quiet painter. With personalities that different making art together, it is no surprise that there is so much friction. In the end, I believe Roger was in the right though he and Dave could of handled things better. I think both are guility of villifying the other. That is probably where the grumpy old bastard image comes from.
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:23 PM   #291
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Old 08-04-2007, 02:46 AM   #292
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I hope people don't mind that I keep bumping this thread, but I am just loving this band to death.

But I come here with a purpose today. I just purchased Wish You Were Here, and instead of starting a new thread, I thought I'd just post here.

Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts 1 and 2/I - IX)
As I have mentioned before, unfortunately my attention span towards music is nullified at about the eight minute mark of a song usually. So I did not have high hopes for SOYCD. And yes, I am sorry to say but I thought the first three and half minutes or so was pretty boring. Maybe even the first five or six. But then it really does start to get going and it's incredibly epic. That's all I can say really. Very inventive. For me I think the Part 2 was better. I prefered the guitar, the fact that the vocals kick in sooner. With more listens my appreciation will improve, don't worry. 7

Welcome to the Machine
I actually really liked this song. It was quite depressing, I got a feeling of anger in the vocals, and just a very sombre mood throughout the song. That said I was pretty impressed. The vocals are different, but great. The guitar makes it for me. So inventive and creative, like nothing I've heard before. 8

Have a Cigar
Meh. Good use and intertwinement of guitar and synth, but the vocals are a bit off for me. Not a band member, was it? The solo is good, and I have to say this album kept surprsisng me with its twists and turns... and this song was a perfect example. 6

Wish You Were Here
Loved this song from the moment I heard it a while ago. Beautiful guitar. The vocals are magnificent. The lyrics are superb. Probably the closest I come to crying during a Pink Floyd song. Not much more to say really, it's just so beautiful. Simple, yet so perfect. The outro is superb. 10

Overall - So far I'd say a 7 or a 7.5, though this will definitely improve. A lot of suprises. By the way has everyone else read/knew about Syd Barrett's appearence in the studio during the 'Have a Cigar' sessions? Apparently he rocked up, fat and devoid of hair and eyebrows, and just sat and watched. Roger cried he said.

And as a last note, what's everyone's five favourite Pink Floyd songs? I haven't heard many, but mine are:

1. Eclipse
2. Wish You Were Here
3. Comfortably Numb
4. Time
5. Brain Damage

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Old 08-04-2007, 02:48 AM   #293
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The vocals of Have A Cigar were recorded by Roy Harper. The performance has a nice smarminess to it that is rather endearing.

WYWH doesn't do all that much for me as an album (splitting up Crazy Diamond is pointless, Welcome To The Machine is tuneless), but the title track alone makes this thing worth purchasing.
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:02 AM   #294
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So Shine On.. works as one 25 odd minute piece
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:20 AM   #295
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COBL_04 , you should check david gilmour's version of SOYCD part 2 from his Meltdown dvd .

as for top 5 :

Comfortably Numb
Interstellar Overdrive
Pigs/Sheep
The Gunners Dream
Time
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:40 PM   #296
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I'm sure WYWH will grow on you more as time goes on, COBL. Each song is a 10 for me. I agree with you that parts VI-IX of Shine On are better than the first five. It's a little more rocking, the synth is wonderful, and the flanger on the bass is great. Plus, Rick plays a little bit of See Emily Play at the very end. No better way to close out a song dedicated to Syd.

I don't see anything inventive or creative about guitar in Welcome To The Machine, though. It's mainly just simple acoustic chords. The real stars of Welcome To The Machine are the synthesisers. That synth solo at the end is brilliant.

Quote:
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By the way has everyone else read/knew about Syd Barrett's appearence in the studio during the 'Have a Cigar' sessions? Apparently he rocked up, fat and devoid of hair and eyebrows, and just sat and watched. Roger cried he said.


A picture someone took of him at Abbey Road during that very session. There's an indepth account of it in Nick's book. It's tough to read.


My top five:

1. Sheep
2. The Final Cut
3. Dogs
4. The Gunner's Dream
5. In The Flesh

The first two are stable, but the next three change periodically.
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:52 PM   #297
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I don't see anything inventive or creative about guitar in Welcome To The Machine, though. It's mainly just simple acoustic chords. The real stars of Welcome To The Machine are the synthesisers. That synth solo at the end is brilliant.

The synthesisers are amazing but it is Roger's cold, numbing vocals and that make that song great.

As for my top five...

1. Set Controls For The Heart Of The Sun
2. Sheep
3. Great Gig In The Sky
4. Gunner's Dream
5. The Trial

On The Run and Dogs are on the outside.
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:56 PM   #298
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Wow. Nice find, GG. A very shocking pic, indeed.
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Old 08-04-2007, 02:04 PM   #299
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The synthesisers are amazing but it is Roger's cold, numbing vocals and that make that song great.
Dave sings it on the album. He and Roger shared the vocals live, though.

And yeah, LemonMelon, it's very shocking. Very depressing too. I hate seeing Syd without his head of curly hair and his eyebrows all gone... It's little wonder why Roger was in tears. I mean, they didn't even know who he was at first...
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Old 08-04-2007, 02:12 PM   #300
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well , still i think syd found his peace and was happy with himself , here's some other pics , more optimistic ones





nov 82

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