Pavement

[lazarus]

I mean, every Pavement/SM album has a couple songs that rock out but they haven't really eased off too much. Real Emotional Trash is real psych rock/jammy but not super hard.

Anyway, this one is really growing on me. The vocal melody on Lariat is so amazing, it's a shame that the chorus doesn't match it.

Mirror Traffic was a bit of a disappointment to me. I want to say this album is a bit more consistent, even if the last one has more peaks? I dunno.

 

[bono_212]

Maybe it's just because I've heard Real Emotional Trash most that I had that idea set in my head.

 

[Hollow Island]

I mean, every Pavement/SM album has a couple songs that rock out but they haven't really eased off too much. Real Emotional Trash is real psych rock/jammy but not super hard.

Anyway, this one is really growing on me. The vocal melody on Lariat is so amazing, it's a shame that the chorus doesn't match it.

Mirror Traffic was a bit of a disappointment to me. I want to say this album is a bit more consistent, even if the last one has more peaks? I dunno.

It's growing on me too. I liked it a lot right away, but right now it's in the top half of Pavement/Jicks for me.

The melody on Lariat is indeed amazing. I can't listen to this record if I have to get up early the next day because it gets stuck in my head and won't let me sleep. The chorus doesn't really fit, it's weird that they went with it. The awkwardness of it accentuates the beauty of the verse though, so maybe that was the idea.

When Mirror Traffic came out I was really disappointed because it wasn't jammy at all (I love Malkmus' guitar playing, he's one of my faves) but I've come around to it. I agree that the new one is more consistent while Mirror Traffic had more highs.

Houston Hades and Chartjunk are slaying me right now. The end of Houston is brilliant.

Stephen Malkmus is the most consistent artist in music history. The closest he's ever come to a dud was Terror Twilight, and it still has some great songs. The main problem with that one is the reverb on everything. I love every other record he's made.

 

[LemonMelon]

The main problem with that one is the reverb on everything.

Yeah, I don't know what made them think Nigel Godrich would be a good match. There's little immediacy on that record, which is where a lot of the band's charm stems from. Weird album.

 

[Hollow Island]

Yeah, I don't know what made them think Nigel Godrich would be a good match. There's little immediacy on that record, which is where a lot of the band's charm stems from. Weird album.

Yeah, there's a lot of immediacy in Pavement, with the ad libbed vocals and music. And everything was always very clear. They weren't adverse to reverb on certain instruments at times, but generally the music was quite dry and clear.

I think Godrich would be a good match for the Jicks, but it was a bit of a disaster for Pavement.

Have you heard the original version of The Hexx? Imagine what Terror Twilight could have been! The TT version of that song is a blunder of Corgan-esque proportions.

 

[lazarus]

I wouldn't call it a "disaster". And I love both versions of The Hexx.

I remember getting an advance cassette from work right before TT came out, we had a hammock on our back porch. I put on a walkman and just drifted away. Beautiful swan song.

I'll repost this brief capsule from The Dean, who I think is spot-on in this case:

Terror Twilight [Matador, 1999]
Since I was fooled myself until I saw them live and knew every riff, I'm wondering why some believe there are no songs here. Probably the explanation is tempo. There's never that frantic hang-on-for-your-life moment when you either pay attention or embrace brain death--when you engage at gunpoint. And though the music seems stitched together rather than wound tight, it's never in any apparent danger of falling apart; it isn't riven or driven by internal contradictions. Thus, too much meaning is left up to the words. But that's not the same as the songs not being there--or as the meanings not being there either. A-

 

[Hollow Island]

I like them both too, but I'd give the TT version 7.5, while the original is a 10.

The Dean...does he know that Dean's don't grade? He's more like the TA.

He's right, though. The songs are there, and they lyrics are great (as always). I just find it a bit draining to listen to, which is odd because I love reverb and effects driven music. Just not with Pavement, I guess.

Have you heard the Brighten the Corners reissue?

 

[lazarus]

I've heard everything. Own almost every single as well, saw them like 10 times pre-reunion.

My favorite band until they broke up.

 

[Hollow Island]

Nice! I was just a bit too young to see them the first time around but the reunion show was one of the best I've seen.

The BtC reissue was shockingly good. I like the album a lot, but there was so much amazing stuff left over. It could have been a real double album. It's not my favorite Pavement album but of all the reissues I think it has the best bonus tracks. I think the Pavement reissues are the best of any band. They're so good.

It would be nice if Malkmus records got the same treatment, but since they don't sell or have any cultural weight I doubt that will happen. According to Malkmus, Mirror Traffic only sold 30,000 copies. That's absurdly low.

 

[Caleb8844]

I have somehow lived twenty years and been a huge music fan for at least seven, and have only just recently discovered Pavement. I now realize this is a fucking travesty that I waited so long. So far, I've only bought Wowee Zowee and listened to some of the more popular singles ("Cut Your Hair," "Gold Soundz," etc.) and have loved every bit of it. Any suggestions on where to go next?

 

[cobl04]

Crooked Rain. Terrific album.

 

[Hollow Island]

Crooked Rain. Then Pig Lib, which he recorded with the Jicks (tied with Wowee Zowee as my favorite). It's a psych folk/prog-via-Television album that's endlessly fascinating and fun. The guitar playing is stellar.

Face the Truth (a very diverse record with incredible lyrics), and Real Emotional Trash (long epic jams) are also great. His solo stuff is vastly underappreciated and it's all part of one train. He played everything but drums on the Pavement records, so it was basically already a solo project.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8UypOF6nSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiWyWxcCT4Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBE99HiE3NE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH9Iv0VI6LU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvvCY69oqjo

Here are two great Jicks bootlegs:

DOWNLOAD - Stephen Malkmus & The Jicks - 2007-01-20 - The Crystal Ballroom - Portland,OR - Home - The Steam Engine
This one is from a few months before they recorded Real Emotional Trash and features most of the songs and the best version of Malkmus' best song, It Kills. Janet Weiss from Sleater Kinney is on the drums and it's pretty heavy.

Download Malkmus - 20030518 Lee's Place, Toronto, Ontario.rar from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way
Toronto, 2003. They play most of Pig Lib, and they're better than the album. Awesome stuff.

Brighten the Corners is great but fairly mellow and lacking in the improvised zaniness of Wowee Zowee, so if you're really into that it might not be your favorite. It is really good though, and the bonus tracks on the reissue are amazing.

Slanted and Enchanted is perfect, but it may as well be by a different band. It sounds nothing like what they did later. It has my all-time favorite Pavement track, In The Mouth A Desert.

Pavement - In The Mouth A Desert - YouTube

Really, you can't go wrong with anything he's recorded, though Terror Twilight and Stephen Malkmus are slighly less good. The former was produced by Nigel Goderich and has a sheen that doesn't fit Pavement at all, but the songs are mostly very good, if a bit flat. SM is a collection of solid pop songs, but it's a bit basic. It does have Church on White though, which is devastating. A very un-Malkmus trait, that, which makes it all the more powerful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P9oDf79V-0

 

[LemonMelon]

I finally heard Pig Lib today. I was listening to Maggot Brain and decided it was the right thing to follow it up with since it's supposedly such a jam record. Gotta say, it's probably my third favorite of his solo works (behind the self-titled and Real Emotional Trash) and a good distance ahead of the last two. Surprisingly good songwriting, better than I was expecting based on the descriptions. Yeah, the instrumentation is very strong, but it doesn't get in the way of the songs. Witch Mountain Bridge and 1% of One are major highlights, but only Dark Wave was weak.

The only Malkmus-related album I haven't heard yet is Face the Truth.

 

[lazarus]

Any suggestions on where to go next?

Crooked Rain. Then Pig Lib, which he recorded with the Jicks (tied with Wowee Zowee as my favorite).

Not sure why anyone would suggest listening to solo SM before finishing off the rest of Pavement.

If you loved Wowee Zowee, you're pretty much down for anything. I'd just take it back to Slanted & Enchanted and move chronologically ahead.

As far as Jicks are concerned, Face The Truth is probably my least favorite, though it does have a handful of major standouts.

Pig Lib is tied with Real Emotional Trash for my favorite because they're the jammiest have have the most guitar solos. 1% of 1 might be indulgent or whatever (you can just picture the Pitchfork assholes cringing in disgust) but there is some insanely good playing in there. The self-titled has more notable "songs" and is impressively eclectic but aside from Church On White it's pretty weak in the guitar department.

1. Pig Lib
2. Real Emotional Trash

3. S/T

4. Wig Out At Jagbags
5. Mirror Traffic
6. Face The Truth

He played everything but drums on the Pavement records, so it was basically already a solo project.

I don't know where you're getting this from but that's complete bullshit.

 

[Caleb8844]

Thanks for the recommendations, people. Decided to move on to Crooked Rain. Fucking amazing. I prefer it over Wowee Zowee after the first few listens. That initial run from "Silent Kid" all the way through "Gold Soundz" is really close to flawless. Other than the obvious singles, I'm really feeling "Elevate Me Later" and "Stop Breathin."

 

[cobl04]

Y U NO MENTlON FILLMORE JIVE

 

[lazarus]

Thanks for the recommendations, people. Decided to move on to Crooked Rain. Fucking amazing. I prefer it over Wowee Zowee after the first few listens. That initial run from "Silent Kid" all the way through "Gold Soundz" is really close to flawless. Other than the obvious singles, I'm really feeling "Elevate Me Later" and "Stop Breathin."

I've said this before but since you're recently in this discussion I'll reiterate: my issue with Crooked Rain (and let me be clear: I still think it's a great album) is that it's a little too homogenous for me in that its sound is a little more "classic rock" (and I put that in quotes because it's their own special brand of it) than the other albums. Wowee Zowee just impresses me more overall because it really runs the gamut sound-wise; as said by many others before it's their White Album.

Also, Hit The Plane Down is arguably the worst song on any of their LPs. So there's that black spot.

 

[lazarus]

Also, here's a treat for those who haven't heard the special edition re-releases of the albums. This is a B-side from the Rattled By The Rush single:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkm41mtbpNQ

 

[Hollow Island]

Not sure why anyone would suggest listening to solo SM before finishing off the rest of Pavement.

I don't know where you're getting this from but that's complete bullshit.

Because the Jicks are just as good. If he was listening to them in chronological order I wouldn't suggest that because there's a clear line of development from Crooked Rain to Wigout, but Pig Lib and RET are just as good as Slanted, and they're ignored because they don't wear the Pavement brand name. There's no reason Pavement should sell 10x as many albums or play to 10x the people as Jicks. It's just branding.

It's common knowledge that most of the instruments aside from drums are Malkmus; Steve West confirmed it. The only album they recorded as a band is Brighten the Corners. The Jicks are actually more of a band that Pavement, yet they're considered a solo project. Go figure.

 

[Hollow Island]

Also, Hit The Plane Down is arguably the worst song on any of their LPs. So there's that black spot.

I don't think you'll find much argument against Hit the Plane Down being the worst song on a Pavement album. Sometimes I really like it, but just as often it's torture. As was shown by the reissue, there was a shit load of stuff they could have put on instead.

 

[cobl04]

I don't see why everyone hates Hit the Plane Down. I like it. 5-4=Unity is easily the worst track on Crooked Rain.

 

[PhilsFan]

Because it's atonal garbage?

 

[lazarus]

It's common knowledge that most of the instruments aside from drums are Malkmus; Steve West confirmed it. The only album they recorded as a band is Brighten the Corners. The Jicks are actually more of a band that Pavement, yet they're considered a solo project. Go figure.

Confirmed it where?

There's no allegations of the sort in Perfect Sound Forever, which interviewed all of the band members.

And for what it's worth, I enjoy both Pig Lib and Real Emotional Trash more than Slanted, and find the Jicks (at least the Janet Weiss incarnation) to be a tighter/more "professional" band than Pavement was. Of course, that's not what made the latter great, and like it or not the Pavement material is still considered more essential and should be heard first for context.

 

[Caleb8844]

Confirmed it where?

There's no allegations of the sort in Perfect Sound Forever, which interviewed all of the band members.

I think there's a good chance he's referring to these quotes:

WEST: Most of the recording was just me and [Malkmus] in a room with a guitar and drums. Then he’d do other guitars over it and work through the bass. Scott would come over and do his songs with me. It wasn’t as if we were all playing at the same time like we did in later albums.

MALKMUS: So it was basically just me and Steve [West] doing the rough takes, and Mark [Ibold] would come by sometimes. Scott was there for part of the time. I ran Steve through the drums and then I just built all the songs up from that. Sometimes Scott would add some guitar and Mark played bass on a couple things, but it was mainly me and Steve messing around in there. So we had tapes and we did it. It was really primitive!

Those are quotes about the Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain era found here: The Oral History Of Pavement’s Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain - Stereogum

 

[lazarus]

Hollow Island's statement implied that this was the case for ALL the Pavement albums, something that West contradicts in that same quote.

 

[Caleb8844]

I've said this before but since you're recently in this discussion I'll reiterate: my issue with Crooked Rain (and let me be clear: I still think it's a great album) is that it's a little too homogenous for me in that its sound is a little more "classic rock" (and I put that in quotes because it's their own special brand of it) than the other albums. Wowee Zowee just impresses me more overall because it really runs the gamut sound-wise; as said by many others before it's their White Album.

Also, Hit The Plane Down is arguably the worst song on any of their LPs. So there's that black spot.

I definitely can see what you mean about Crooked Rain, but thankfully, the sound that most of that album settles into is a sound that really does it for me. And even though there're definitely strong stylistic similarities throughout, the differences between, say, "Unfair," "Cut Your Hair," and "Stop Breathin," are definitely enough to keep it interesting for me.

So far, I'd say I enjoy Crooked Rain holistically slightly more than Wowee Zowee, but I think I prefer the peaks on the latter. While a little more inconsistent to me, there's nothing on CRCR that quite reaches the level of transcendence that something like "Grounded" or "Pueblo" does.

Is it a widely established fact that early Modest Mouse was heavily influenced by Pavement? Because I'm realizing a lot of what I love about This is a Long Drive and even some of The Moon & Antarctica sounds heavily indebted to Wowee Zowee, to me.

Hollow Island's statement implied that this was the case for ALL the Pavement albums, something that West contradicts in that same quote.

Ah, true, good point.

 

[u2popmofo]

I feel like all Pavement discussion ends up in a rehash of opinion, but here's mine for the dozenth time:

I like Slanted & Enchanted and Brighten the Corners a lot. Terror Twilight and Crooked Rain a decent amount. Wowee Zowee, considerably less than the rest.

 

[Hollow Island]

Hollow Island's statement implied that this was the case for ALL the Pavement albums, something that West contradicts in that same quote.

No, I said they recorded Brighten the Corners as a band. I read recently, maybe on the Jicks board, that according to West 90% of what you hear on Pavement is him and Malky.

The Jicks were just as tight with Moen on drums, and had a bit more swing to them. Check out that Toronto bootleg on the previous page, it's awesome.

I know Pavement is considered more essential and was more culturally important, but far too many people listen to them and don't bother checking out the Jicks, which is crazy. I listened to Malkmus' work in order over the winter and it's a fascinating development. I'm going to do that soon with Animal Collective.

 

[lazarus]

No, I said they recorded Brighten the Corners as a band. I read recently, maybe on the Jicks board, that according to West 90% of what you hear on Pavement is him and Malky.

Your original post:

Face the Truth (a very diverse record with incredible lyrics), and Real Emotional Trash (long epic jams) are also great. His solo stuff is vastly underappreciated and it's all part of one train. He played everything but drums on the Pavement records, so it was basically already a solo project.

You didn't specify anything about Brighten The Corners until your subsequent post.

From Perfect Sound Forever:

CROOKED RAIN

"I flew out to New York for almost a month," says Kannberg, "and we did the record and mixed it. Mark was there every day and he played bass on a bunch of songs"


WOWEE ZOWEE

Malkmus decided that since they played together for a solid eighteen months they should try, for the first time, to record an album as a band rather than in the splintered manner used before.

Nevertheless, according to Steve West, the quintet were really feeling like a band as they started work. "I think it was, for me, a culmination of touring"

It was the first time Nastanovich had fully participated in an album session, and he enjoyed the experience. "I was in the far corner of the room in a booth with my drums and my Moog"


If you're going to make exaggerated claims, back it up with some legit evidence, not "I read on some Jicks internet forum" bullshit.

 

[lazarus]

TERROR TWILIGHT

After the mini break, everyone came back refreshed and ready to go again, and things went much more smoothly. It took about two weeks to get most of the backing tracks done, and the band played like a band again.

Nastanovich finished his parts in New York.