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Old 05-18-2008, 11:42 PM   #16
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that performance of master of puppets at the weenie roast kicked ass
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Old 05-18-2008, 11:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus



...and those people are called "tools".

Metallica hired Bon Jovi's producer and whittled down their epic tracks intro radio-friendly < 5 minute songs, resulting in a complete dumbing-down of their music.

That kind of artistic compromise is selling out in the worst way, far more than using your song in a commercial to sell a product.
Imagine if they'd done both, say made a radio-friendly lowest common denominator by-the-numbers radio-fodder album like, oh, HTDAAB AND used their music to sell a product like, say, an iPOD...



Actually, I know quite a few people who would never have known Cliff Burton from Richard Burton had it not been for Sandman.

Much as many U2 fans only got familiar with older (i.e, better) U2 after hearing the very inferior ATYCLB and HTDAAB era songs.

Oh, and just to be picky, 7 of the 12 songs on Black are >5 minutes
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Old 05-18-2008, 11:57 PM   #18
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House Jack Built is a stunner of a song.....sosmething about it grips me.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:00 AM   #19
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actually their entire performance that night kicked ass.

i just watched it on youtube.
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by toscano


Imagine if they'd done both, say made a radio-friendly lowest common denominator by-the-numbers radio-fodder album like, oh, HTDAAB AND used their music to sell a product like, say, an iPOD...
U2 made it clear from the beginning they were down for playing by the mainstream rules, including big venues, videos, etc. And their music became more complex for over 15 years before it began to level off again.

Metallica, on the other hand, had long, complex, epic tracks right from the beginning. They were also pretty adamant about NEVER making a video, NEVER playing stadiums, etc. A band loses their defiant, anti-corporate stance over the years, fine. But hiring Bon Jovi's producer...that's pretty hard to justify as anything other than wanting to appeal to a bunch of cheese-metal loving fools.

They had already achieved a HUGE level of success from One; apparently it wasn't enough for these greedy whores.
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:02 AM   #21
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I have a hard time tossing the term "sell-out" around. I do not know what specifically motivates other people, let alone artists, so it's hard for me to definitively say someone sold-out. I remember a lot of people telling me that U2 sold out with the Joshua Tree. I think they were wrong and still do, but, the bottom line is they equated mainstream radioplay/success with selling out, and poof, that's how they deemed the band from there on out. So, sure, hiring Bob Rock is/was questionable, but, maybe Metallica truly wanted to go in that direction for reasons above and beyond monetary or popularity concerns. I just don't know. Oh, and Laz, this is not directed at you at all, but I bet most of the people I've encountered that toss out the sell-out phrase would make compromises to reap greater financial rewards in a fucking heartbeat.
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:20 AM   #22
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You know, prior to In Justice For All.... Metallica were selling a lot of records and had a massive following without the help of radio and MTV. The video for One was their first video they ever made.

I don't think they sold out when they made the black album. I think it was just a natural progression for them. I think that record was made for artistic purposes only. They were still pretty kick ass when that album came out. I think it only pissed off the people that wanted 900 riffs a minute and wicked fast solos in every song.
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:01 AM   #23
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No love for The Black Album? I know it was a disappointment to many metal fans out there, but it still contains some amazing songs.

Still, the Ride the Lightning/Master of Puppets era was the best.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by toscano


Imagine if they'd done both, say made a radio-friendly lowest common denominator by-the-numbers radio-fodder album like, oh, HTDAAB AND used their music to sell a product like, say, an iPOD...

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Old 05-19-2008, 08:20 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by david


I don't think they sold out when they made the black album. I think it was just a natural progression for them. I think that record was made for artistic purposes only. They were still pretty kick ass when that album came out. I think it only pissed off the people that wanted 900 riffs a minute and wicked fast solos in every song.
I agree.

I still enjoy most of their 90's material, with the exeption of 1 or 2 off Re-load and I thought the majority of the St Anger album was excellent.
That live footage does look good but I don't think i'll bother seeing em' again when they next tour the UK.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:00 AM   #26
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Uhh, if by "natural progression" we're talking about a de-evolution of their compositional and lyrical abilities, and a growing desire to make more money, then I guess that would be correct.

Natural would be if you were working with the same producer, in the same fashion, but discovering new things. What they did was actively seek out to temper and over-polish their music by hiring a "hit-maker".
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by toscano




Actually, I know quite a few people who would never have known Cliff Burton from Richard Burton had it not been for Sandman.

Wasn't Jason already in the band during the Black album?
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Old 05-19-2008, 02:55 PM   #28
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Wasn't Jason already in the band during the Black album?
Yes he was.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:04 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


Wasn't Jason already in the band during the Black album?
the point I was trying to make was that they got into Metallica, and subsequently discovered their earlier stuff, something which may never have happened without the Black album opening them up to a wider audience.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by david
You know, prior to In Justice For All.... Metallica were selling a lot of records and had a massive following without the help of radio and MTV. The video for One was their first video they ever made.

I don't think they sold out when they made the black album. I think it was just a natural progression for them. I think that record was made for artistic purposes only. They were still pretty kick ass when that album came out. I think it only pissed off the people that wanted 900 riffs a minute and wicked fast solos in every song.
I agree with this. I think the black album is solid. Does it reach the heights of the previous albums? Probably not, but it's still a very good record. So they hired a producer that previously worked with Bon Jovi. Big deal. They don't sound anything like them, anyway.
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