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Old 01-03-2010, 10:09 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
Thanks for the clarification on Britney - I agree.

I'm still curious as to why people are so sure as to what GaGa's relevance/impact/status will be years from now when she's pretty much brand new?

Why not wait to see what else she does in a year or two before slapping the "irrelevant" and "forgettable" labels on her?

You don't like her songs? Fine! You think she's irritating? Great!

Guess she's having an impact already, if people are rushing to write her off so quickly.
I'm not saying that. As I wrote, she prooved that she's intelligent, that she can write and produce good pop songs and it seems that her graduation skills have something to do with arts.

But she's still pasted and using/wasting the "Madonna formula" (let's call it this way) in a frenetic rhythm. If she runs away from it and then starts to build something of her own, who knows if she won't stay around here for many years and remembered as other icons...

I think that Gaga can win in the future if she starts to follow a new path. Meanwhile she's too pasted to what's been done before (exhaustively), I don't think so.
And I'm definitely not a fan of the "Bad Romance" song and video. Starting on the fact that it's a twin sister of "Poker Face" (rhythm section, chords progression, structure, etc). Then the video: on the last years, I've never seen a bigger amount of ideas, concepts, methods, references in one sole video like "Bad Romance". It lost all the focus, the concept (if it has ever existed besides the trying to be a trendsetter... like Madonna was/has been, once again), cohesion is zero... a big mess for me. The performance of the last MTV Awards mirrors this idea very well... It's excessive, it has loads and loads of visual noise for something so simple. No one asked that and her music doesn't ask that neurotic euphoria of her persona and full ideas.

Plus, she doesn't have a bad voice (I actually like it, and she knows her vocal range and possibilities very well), but I hate the fact that she changes melodies (on new versions for instance) drastically, specially vocal melodies (MTV Awards performance I talked about... and she goes out of key sometimes because of those "show-off borderline improvisations"). It doesn't bring anything good or fresh to the songs. It's just more show off for me. And she didn't need it.

So, I don't think she's talentless (I think it's the exact opposite, she's proved she has talent), but she's wasting it with that "psychotic excessive show off" and with the collage to Madonna's formula.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:09 PM   #107
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Not sure how many of the performances she throws her leg on the piano, but there are a good number of acoustic performances of hers up on YouTube:

YouTube - Lady Gaga - Poker Face (Piano Version)
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:11 PM   #108
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She was not brought up for her musical achievements (or her hits), but for the spectacle that she has become. If she is to be remembered in however many years, in my opinion, it will be for the extravaganza, not her hits or music.
But... what's really outstanding and extravagant about Britney Spears tha hasn't been achived or made before by other female... performers?
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:13 PM   #109
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I'm not saying that.
Ah, okay. I did misunderstand your general gist.

My comment still stands as a more general one to those that criticize her (here and on other sites). Just a general comment about how the basis of some of the criticism puzzles me.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:40 PM   #110
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While there's probably some (or, more likely, just a hint) truth to that idea, I just can't believe that it was all a calculated, sinister move on Madonna's part, as hooks implies. I have a very ambivalent relationship to most academic work about popular music, as a good chunk of it is just terrible or average, at best.
I think that from the beggining she knew that she could provoque certain reaction on the audiences with the right career steps that were the key for it, but I'm not sure she calculated it in the early years. Madonna has definitely become a control freak and these days any of her career moves is calculated. But, for instance, I'm not sure that the "Papa Don't Preach" controversy was predicted.

What she soon learned is that she was playing with one of the pilars, one of the key-issues of the cultural studies: gender. It is not a coincidence too that she was associated to the new movement of feminists, the reason why old feminists and new (post-Madonna wave) feminists dislike her and criticise her approach constantly.
Some artists' work lays on the race issue. Some others on social class issue. Madonna's "glory days" of artistic relevance (that were enough to raise her as one of the biggest cultural icons of our era) lays on the gender issue. That's why she's relevant and important. Not only because of her hits or because of her legacy (and formula to the pop princesses of these days).
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:33 PM   #111
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But she's still pasted and using/wasting the "Madonna formula"

but I hate the fact that she changes melodies (on new versions for instance) drastically, specially vocal melodies
As usual you have a problem with consistency. Madonna never played solo performances or like you said played around and changed melodies or music parts, etc...

I'm not the biggest fan of Gaga but I have to say I admire the fact that she was self funded and created herself without big label money, that she can go on shows and strip her songs down to just her and piano, and knows how to write... None of these other pop starts that she's been compared to in this thread can do that.
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:31 AM   #112
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As usual you have a problem with consistency. Madonna never played solo performances or like you said played around and changed melodies or music parts, etc...

I'm not the biggest fan of Gaga but I have to say I admire the fact that she was self funded and created herself without big label money, that she can go on shows and strip her songs down to just her and piano, and knows how to write... None of these other pop starts that she's been compared to in this thread can do that.
I don't care if she strips her songs of not. Do it, but do it well. I don't like the way she does it. Madonna has stripped and rearranged songs as well, but it work because the essence was kept (specially the melodies), as far as I remember.

Oh... And I didn't know that Interscope and Def Jam (**cough cough** Island Records **cough cough** Universal) was an independent little label that could do nothing for her. Plus, she already knew Akon (and his label) and acts like Pussycat Dolls and stuff like that.

Where did my consistency really fail?
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:45 AM   #113
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I don't care if she strips her songs of not. Do it, but do it well. I don't like the way she does it. Madonna has stripped and rearranged songs as well, but it work because the essence was kept (specially the melodies), as far as I remember.

Oh... And I didn't know that Interscope and Def Jam (**cough cough** Island Records **cough cough** Universal) was an independent little label that could do nothing for her. Plus, she already knew Akon (and his label) and acts like Pussycat Dolls and stuff like that.

Where did my consistency really fail?
You say she's cut from the same fabric of Madonna but then admit to her rearranging her songs, I can't think of anytime especially at this point in Madonna's career where she was rearranging songs, especially on her own. That makes her a much more competant musician than Madonna, didn't she just start playing an instrument a couple of years ago?

And I never said she was on an independent label, but from my understanding she was on a subsidiary label that didn't want to really back her and so much of her rise to notoriety was on her own.
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:08 PM   #114
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i think she should be in the hof
The Hoff thinks he should be in her... oh!

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Old 01-04-2010, 02:53 PM   #115
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You say she's cut from the same fabric of Madonna but then admit to her rearranging her songs, I can't think of anytime especially at this point in Madonna's career where she was rearranging songs, especially on her own. That makes her a much more competant musician than Madonna, didn't she just start playing an instrument a couple of years ago?

And I never said she was on an independent label, but from my understanding she was on a subsidiary label that didn't want to really back her and so much of her rise to notoriety was on her own.
Being a more competent musician doesn't mean that the songs are happier, stronger or more powerful, which is the case.
If I can remember, Madonna played drums and guitar in a few bands before going solo in the early 80's. And I think she's been playing electric and acoustic guitar (not very perfect) in concert tours since the Drowned World Tour, I guess (I might be wrong).
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Old 01-04-2010, 04:55 PM   #116
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Being a more competent musician doesn't mean that the songs are happier, stronger or more powerful, which is the case.
Um, OK

No one said anything about happier, stronger, etc...

I'm just saying I think she comes from a much different cloth then Madonna. Britney and Christina have much more in common with Madonna than Gaga.
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:19 PM   #117
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I'm afraid you don't quite have your finger on the pulse of the pop music world, Aygo, if you think Britney Spears is "irrelevant." You may not like her for whatever reason, and that's fine, but she's just as popular now as she ever has been. Unless maybe I'm missing what exactly you mean by relevance. If you mean record sales, Circus has sold a shit ton. If you mean radio play, her songs have been unavoidable on the radio this year. Add to that a hugely successful world tour and her still constant presence in the tabloid press...the girl's career is going strong.

And when I woke up this morning I didn't think I'd be defending Britney Spears in a Lady GaGa thread on a U2 forum. But such is life on the interwebs, I suppose.
I think by "relevant", he meant that she doesn't look quite as naughty as she once did. I agree.
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:25 PM   #118
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Thanks for the article Lance! It was fascinating. And it puts forth a much more complex and well thought out explanation of what I believe Lady Gaga is trying to do with her music and image.
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:26 PM   #119
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I think by "relevant", he meant that she doesn't look quite as naughty as she once did. I agree.
As long as "naughty" means "shaking structures" and "forcing the audiences to think about controversial issues using easy and catchy pop songs and characters", yes.
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:31 PM   #120
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As long as "naughty" means "shaking structures" and "forcing the audiences to think about controversial issues using easy and catchy pop songs and characters", yes.
I meant that I'd make her sing opera in that Toxic suit.
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