Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

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The beginning of the album is pretty strong, and she definitely knows how to add a pop/r&b hook to her tracks, but I felt like that pushed the rapping to the side a bit too much overall.
 
powerhour24 said:
Minaj's album bowed down to commercial interests more than her creative instincts, it was a letdown considering her nuts talent, but yeah she totally steals Monster.
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Agreed. It's an awful album, and as a collection of songs, it's still a little disappointing. I was really hoping it wouldn't just be another calculated pop album, but it does function well enough as one. I like the Rihanna track.
 
onebloodonelife said:
For the record, the author is male.

I'm not saying Kanye is actually doing any of these things, and I'm not saying misogynistic lyrics aren't fun to sing along to...I'm known to have a soft spot for Eminem and plenty of hip-hop I listen to is misogynistic (in stereotypical "bitches and hos" sorts of ways). I'm sure as fucking hell not saying that men are going to necessarily go out and re-enact some of these rapes or whatever. But, you can't say this rhetoric of misogyny doesn't perpetuate a continuing stereotype of female inferiority. Most people in this day and age don't come out and say, "Yeah, women should be cooking and cleaning or around for fucking," but that doesn't mean the feeling isn't underlying and unspoken.

Masculinity in hip-hop is a whole other book. If you haven't seen it, watch Byron Hurt's documentary. It's an hour-long questioning of masculinity in hip-hop.
Beyond Beats and Rhymes.
I'm not going to get into it here, but there is a long, long history of race being tied up in hypermasculinity as well. Read Frantz Fanon's Black Skin, White Masks, and it's plain to see this need to compensate for perceived inferiorities elsewhere often results in hypermasculinities being performed.

And, why does masculine=misogynistic? It sure as fuck doesn't have to. Take dead prez, who are "revolutionary but gangsta" and put out songs like "Mind Sex" and "The Beauty Within." Are they not masculine?

YouTube - dead prez - Mind Sex

YouTube - DEAD PREZ - The Beauty Within

But that doesn't sell records. Bitches and hos sell records. Women getting raped sells records. That's a huge fucking problem for me. But it's a societal problem too, which isn't completely the artists' problem, unless they're exploiting this fact for gain (especially monetary). Then it becomes a huge fucking problem again for me.

I'm not going to say it isn't a complicated and complex issue. Clearly, it is. Something about Kanye's album hit a nerve with me and many others though, and it's something that's worth talking about and not just brushing off as "an act, a facade, 'part of the game,' etc." because that continued mentality of underlying misogyny will only continue if nobody does.

Kanye shouldn't be crucified for this, and I don't think any of these articles are necessarily doing that, as they are placing praise alongside criticisms. Individual artists shouldn't be crucified for this, but they should be questioned. Society should question itself through these artists as well, because these artists are coming out of that. To whatever extent, society plays a role in producing these types of mentalities, and thus, it should play a role in eradicating or reducing them as well. But, the only way to do that is to begin questioning it when it appears around oneself.

Enjoy the album, but also think about what's being said. That's really all I think I and most of these other critics are saying.

Apologies for writing a book here, but as you can all probably tell, this sort of thing really hits a nerve.
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can't argue with any of this :up:
 
Nor can I. Very well laid out, that argument.

Most people in this day and age don't come out and say, "Yeah, women should be cooking and cleaning or around for fucking," but that doesn't mean the feeling isn't underlying and unspoken.
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This is certainly true. It does seem that racism and sexism nowadays is a lot more subtle than it used to be. At one time people made no bones about drawing the line of where people "belonged" in society, what their "roles" were. Now they know they'll get raked over the coals for saying that stuff aloud, so they hide it and you have to read between the lines to see what it is they're really saying.

Art imitates life, and it really is shameful that this crap is still part of life.

I also agree with you on the masculinity thing. I'm so sick of men acting like being macho thug thickheads makes you a "real man". No, it actually makes you look like an ass. But that attitude still appeals to some women, sadly.

Meh. Anywho, don't mean to derail the thread. Regarding Minaj, I've only heard a couple songs by her. Not my thing, really, from what I've heard, but maybe I'm not listening to the right stuff.

Angela
 
had to convince someone last night it was Minaj on Power, not MIA.

cassie i also meant to reply to your post with a very-well thought out Dead Prez reference: it's bigger than hip hop...
 
Yeah she's the 'narrator' of Dark Fantasy, I don't think anyone major is credited with the backing vocals on Power.
 
Ugh, Kanye's verse on H.A.M. is super amateur sounding, and even more 'lifestyle' obsessed than before, killer hook and mixing though, Hova sounded more engaged here than he has lately though.

I want the earnestness of College Dropout crossed with the flow he had going on Dark Fantasy.
 
I still think this album is massively overrated. It is good, no doubting that at all, but in no way, shape or form is it a 10/10 album.

Dark Fantasy, Gorgeous, Run Away, Devil in a New Dress, Hell of a Life and Blame Game are all too long, and all would be better songs (and would in turn make the album more enjoyable) if Kanye had edited them. Personally I think MBDTF screams out for editing more than any LCD release does.

Not sure how anyone can enjoy the last four or so minutes of Run Away. That vocoder/synth solo is just absolute garbage (and I'm not the only one who believes this is so!). Usually I hate radio edits but in this case it benefits the song greatly.

Jay-Z's verse on Monster is the worst in that song, but it's not as bad as people say. He then has the best verse on So Appalled, the best song on the album.

The auto-tune for the first 45 seconds of Lost in the World is painful to sit through. Luckily the rest of the song is bangin'.

Some downright shocking lines (mostly referring to the misogyny, I've had enough of it by the time Blame Game rolls around), but a lot of it is pretty good. "Have you ever had sex with a pharoah? / Ahhh put the pussy in a sarcophagus" would be my favourite.

I definitely still prefer Sir Lucious Left Foot though, and by quite a distance.
 
I could write 500 words detailing my love for this album, but there are already 500 people doing so at this very moment.
 
I was gonna let you finish COBL, but then you called So Appalled the best song on the album.
 
I don't think I have a favorite song on this album, but I'd find it hard to argue with that.

That stretch from Power to So Appalled is quite impressive.
 
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