Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

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Same. I think Runaway gets more hate than any song on the album (Chris Rock excepted, people seem to like Blame Game), along with more love.
 
This is the first hip-hop album I've ever listened to. I enjoyed it a lot more than I expected. I can't compare to other albums but I like every song on the album to a certain extent.
The only problem I have with the album is some of the lyrics. Like some others have mentioned in this thread I hate the pussies, bitches, etc.
 
It'll be kind of hard for you to listen to other hip-hop after this, with the exception of some of the more inspired tracks from contemporaries like Kid Cudi and Lupe Fiasco, nothing else will sound remotely like this.

Also, that Monster video was all kinds of fucked up, but everything seems pretty normal following the Runaway film.
 
well over the past decade it's become more mainstream so it's pretty surprising at least to me. and if he said he somewhat enjoyed this album and didn't hate every minute of it it's also surprising that he hasn't heard at least one before.

that said i have never listened to a metal album from start to finish, simply because i don't like the genre.
 
Well you have to start somewhere and of course I've heard hip-hop songs before but I'd never took the time to listen to a whole album. Now that I've heard this one I am planning to listen to more hip-hop.
 
nielsgov said:
Well you have to start somewhere and of course I've heard hip-hop songs before but I'd never took the time to listen to a whole album. Now that I've heard this one I am planning to listen to more hip-hop.
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Really, what higher praise can be given to an album than it being enough to make you want to explore a genre? Twisted Fantasy is a strange introduction to hip-hop though. It's one of those records that is deepened if you understand the context in which it was released, and knowing what other hip-hop records have to offer is a big part of why it sounds so refreshing and ambitious in comparison. It's not essential to the album kicking ass though.

I say you should check out some Outkast. Stankonia might be the way to go if you want some batshit fun. People have compared Twisted Fantasy to that one, as both were defining records for their respective decades, breaths of fresh air.
 
Yes I've heard that this album isn't "normal" hip-hop but I don't know anything about the genre so I just tried this because it got so much praise. Thanks for the tip.
 
Why not listen to Kanye's earlier albums? Personally Twisted Fantasy does not top College Dropout or Late Registration.
 
THANK YOU!

My favorite bit was this, while talking about the leaked "Monster" video:

It’s hard not to think of lynchings, of sexual violence. It’s hard not to feel a little nauseous, and a lot sad. The video is empty provocation and clumsy art, the move of someone who, in a climate of unchecked glorification, has been given too much rope to play with. Maybe not enough for a backlash, but had this video been released four weeks ago, certainly enough to get some people to change their votes.
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I seriously wish people hadn't had so much of the Kanye Kool-Aid. This isn't even the best hip-hop album of the year, let alone album of the year. Color me unimpressed with the acclaim it's getting.
 
onebloodonelife said:
I seriously wish people hadn't had so much of the Kanye Kool-Aid. This isn't even the best hip-hop album of the year, let alone album of the year. Color me unimpressed with the acclaim it's getting.
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Seconded.

I like a number of the songs, but there's a good amount of filler on it for my tastes as well. There are other Kanye albums I like far more, as well as other 2010 hip hop albums.
 
onebloodonelife said:
I seriously wish people hadn't had so much of the Kanye Kool-Aid...Color me unimpressed with the acclaim it's getting.
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I feel the same way, actually. I won't question the musical content because I'm not terribly familiar with hip-hop, but the lyrical content to me is the sound of someone reveling in stereotypes for an hour. On that account, the reviews - especially that of Pitchfork - that try to uphold it as some type of intellectual statement have really grated on me.

That said, I also realize that lyrics are not the sole arbiter of an album's quality. Maybe it is a musically ground-breaking album; I just don't know enough about the genre to determine that.
 
The Monster video is pulp, just like much of the record's lyrical content. I'm disappointed that some people are taking the album too seriously to have fun with it.
 
LemonMelon said:
The Monster video is pulp, just like much of the record's lyrical content. I'm disappointed that some people are taking the album too seriously to have fun with it.
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Indeed.

For me, half of Kanye's appeal is that he isn't that great of a rapper, despite being a great record producer. When he follows up a good line with a really clunky, downright bad metaphor, or trips over sections of his lyrics haphazardly, it's charming.
 
:up:

Though I would say most of his lyrics on this album were stronger than his past efforts.
 
Here I am yet again, killjoy of everything Kanye, because this article has brought up the issues I have with this album far more eloquently than I have thus far.

On White She-Devils | Atlantic Mobile

On White She-Devils
Ta-Nehisi Coates | Jan 3, 2011


I like the beats on Kanye West's new album. I love the inversion of that famous line about Malcolm X--"That's too much power for one man to have." I think he's an improved MC. But I'm a little amazed that no one's disturbed by "Champagne wishes/30 white bitches" as a hook. I'm more amazed at his empty employment of white women as objects. I'm less amazed, but pretty depressed, that colorism is back--"Rolling with some light-skin chicks and some Kelly Rowlands," is little more than "you're pretty for a dark-skin girl" in this postracial era.

All told, the album strikes me as incredibly, almost casually, racist. On some level, I wonder what would have become of John Mayer, had he cut a video with dead black women strewn about and invoked black women throughout his lyrics in the manner Kanye does. But moralism misses the point here. The problem isn't simply racism or sexism, but boring racism, boring sexism that hearkens back to the black power macho of Amiri Baraka and Eldridge Cleaver at their worst. It's the work of a failed provocateur boorishly brandishing his ancient affects. The obvious defense is that this is an exploration of West's psyche, of his fantasy. But actually it isn't. This is an aggressively external album obsessed with dismissing haters, slut-shaming women (black and white), and ultimately, not with Kanye or his fantasy, but with what you will surely say about his fantasy.

Never has someone shouted "Kiss my ass" and sounded less convincing than Kanye West. No, seriously. Paying Chris Rock to play the cuckolder and yell, "Yeeze reupholstered my pussy," is not a stroke of genius, it's a lack of artistic courage. It means even on arguably the most emotionally painful cut, you're not convinced that the song can stand on its own. Always when listening to Kanye, I feel like I'm in a Monty Python sketch and someone is repeatedly yakking, repeatedly announcing "Know what I mean? Nudge, nudge!" I love the line "they can kiss my whole ass," but when it's followed by "More specifically, they can kiss my asshole," you fail. Lyrically.

And I like the album. I like "POWER." I like "All Of The Lights" I like damn near every beat on the record. Nicki Minaj is a terror, and her closer on "Monster" called me back to Busta in the era of "Scenario." But maybe I'm old. Or maybe I can't bear to re-hash Soul On Ice over some (admittedly dope) beats. More likely, I'm tired of rappers who deploy slut-shame to smoke-screen their near total fear of pussy. The comparison with Prince is, again, instructive. There's something hard about submission, and something really weak in Kanye's fear of losing control, in his need to address your commentary on him losing control.
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Probably my favorite (and most encompassing of the myriad issues at play here) comment:

I don't think the idea is that "white" is the problem. It's "white" AND it's "bitches." Especially when it comes to black/white race relations in this country (though it's true for other ethnicities as well--William Hung, anyone?), there are huge intersections between gender and race in terms of cultural constructs, context, and perception. Examples: Fear of miscegenation (specifically between black men and white women); dehumanization of black women into sexual receptacles who suffer less from rape (no, really); black men seen as hyper-virile, animalistic sex machines; white men as lacking in masculinity, terrified of the sexual power of black men over their wives, daughters, and selves. You can't talk about just race or just gender in this space; they're tangled.

With that in mind, I don't think just saying that he WANTS white bitches makes it a positive comment on white bitches. It's not, "I want white bitches because each white bitch I encounter enriches my life and brings a new perspective to my worldview." It's not even "I want white bitches because I am attracted to white women and 'bitch' is just the word that I used because that's how I roll"--which would have its own problems: It's "I want white bitches because I collect objects that raise my status." The cited desire for white bitches exists within a history of white women viewed as a sexual commodity, conferring social power, that black and white men struggle over.

The argument you're making is not unlike excuses that get made for a lot of sexist rhetoric: "I don't mean bitch in a bad way," "it's just a compliment, jeez," etc. Words do not exist in a vacuum. Context matters.
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Here's a thought: "Monster" would be the best song on the album if it weren't for that limp dick Jay-Z verse.
 
Maybe not the best, but it would certainly be an improvement. He's pretty good on So Appalled, but his verse on Monster blows.
 
Damn near ruins the song for me. If you're that disinterested, just don't even do it.

Kind of weird that this is my first time speaking about this album, eh?
 
onebloodonelife said:
Here I am yet again, killjoy of everything Kanye, because this article has brought up the issues I have with this album far more eloquently than I have thus far.
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Thanks for posting that. Even for an album I casually like (by which I mean I like a lot of the songs but don't pay much attention to the lyrics; I care more about the beats and samples than the words), I'm interested in reading stuff like this.
 
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