Kanye West discussion

[cobl04]

Not to put words in her mouth but I think black people just complain too much.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Not to put words in her mouth but I think black people just complain too much.

Dude you really are an asshole and a bean-pole one at that. I completely understand why you love Hip-Hop. You see, it's generally very testosterone filled and macho which appeals to young males who want to identify with something so alpha-male. By doing this, it gives you guys a sense of power. The themes of most rap is very male oriented. Power, Sex, Money, Demonstrating superior rapping skills than the other guy. In my day, it was the same with metal.

Seriously, it takes guts to stand up for my opinion despite "no one being on my side". I don't require validation from a group of people on the internet to determine my self-worth. The funny thing is cobbler, many of the rappers you love use themes in their songs of the "lone wolf" up against the crowd and overcoming the odds through personal strength. I figured you would admire an Asian women in her 40's who sees obvious sexism and misogyny in hip-hop and therefore stands up for what is not right. You described in a earlier post that you were pissed off by the way people of color were being treated in Australia and that your music was misunderstood.

Finally, I am going to tell everyone about a course I took at the Collage of Charleston. (click the link)

College Offers Unique Course in Hip-Hop - College of Charleston News : College of Charleston News

I was one of the 70 students who attended this program and it really opened my eyes. Therefore, I actually do know something about Rap and as your beloved Ice Cube would say "You better check yourself before you wreck yourself".

Finally, if you want to be a real man instead of a little boy. Grow up and realize that others can question and debate your personal tastes without having to experience verbal abuse and childish passive-aggressive comments.

Diemen is right, you are "over the line". If I bother you that much then follow his advice. Otherwise, relax and keep a cool head. It's only music!

 

[djerdap]

How about Cobbler lets you make the official "best albums of 2015" thread this time around?

Will you be less grumpy then?

As far as "over the line" goes, you just called him many names which is against the rules as well, so I wouldn't be quoting Diemen that soon.

 

[Hewson]

Otherwise, relax and keep a cool head.

Perhaps follow your own advice here, stop calling folks who have a different viewpoint names and attempting to belilltle their views/opinions and you might not get the same back.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

This. But when you're blinded by confirmation bias who gives a fuck?

RaisedByWolves you realise no one is on your side right? Literally every post you've made regarding hip-hop has made you look more and more stupid. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about, but hey, as they say, ignorance is bliss, right?

Hewson, read cobbler's comments again.

 

[Hewson]

Hewson, read cobbler's comments again.

Yeah, but its not like those comments came out of the blue, its been a running confrontation for weeks now and you've been dishing out plenty, right above you call him an "asshole and a bean-pole one at that" and explain how you understand why he loves hip hop because he's young and therefore must get a sense of power etc. from it. You're projecting onto him, he likes the music for his reasons, not the ones you unfairly assume.
You called him names and painted him with a broad brush and have been doing so since the day after the Grammys from time to time. So his responses may be over the line but remember it takes two to tango.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

It does take two to tango but let's be honest, everyone generally likes a strong debate that's what attracts people to forums like this. "The Bystander effect" as it is commonly called.

 

[Hewson]

The debate is fine, its how its been presented thats the problem.

 

[djerdap]

Hewson, read cobbler's comments again.

A hint of self-criticism would do you good. You accuse him of passive aggression and you've been doing the same constantly, directing it towards a group of people for months now, just because they disagree with you and especially because you were insulted by something I've already sarcastically hinted at in the previous post. Personal jabs were coming out-of-the-blue and unprovoked in discussions and you came in this thread specifically to ask for confrontation.

This all fits into a pattern of what the internet kids like to call "trolling".

Read again at what you posted as a reply to Cobbler. It's far, far nastier than what he wrote there.

The fact that you try to prove a point by saying you took a college course is laughable. I personally feel your generalisations on rap and metal are asinine (and I'm hardly a rap music fan). If that's all you got from a college course, I really hope the other 69 got more from it.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

The debate is fine, its how its been presented thats the problem.

I can agree with that.

If none of us were behind a keyboard and instead talking face-to -face, I am confident these conversations would be quite different. The anonymity of the internet contributes greatly to modern communication and it's effects on the fabric of society.

 

[Diemen]

Diemen is right, you are "over the line".

And so are you with that equally nasty, insult-filled rant. Honestly, did you think that my comment gave you license to sling insults back at him?

You don't like rap and hip-hop. We get it. Being the thorn in every hip-hop fan's side isn't as noble an endeavor as you seem to think.

Let it go.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

And so are you with that equally insult filled rant. Honestly, did you think that my comment gave you license to sling insults back to him?

You don't like rap and hip-hop. We get it. Being the thorn in every hip-hop fan's side isn't as noble an endeavor as you seem to think.

Let it go.

Ok Diemen, I'll let it go. I hope young cobbler can do the same.

 

[Diemen]

It does take two to tango but let's be honest, everyone generally likes a strong debate that's what attracts people to forums like this. "The Bystander effect" as it is commonly called.

As for this? No, not everyone likes a debate where the debaters constantly sling insults at each other, present straw man arguments and unfairly project motives onto the other person in order to make their argument appear more convincing.

Personally, I prefer a debate where both sides respect each other and are willing to accept the other's argument in good faith, concede points and remain open to changing their mind on the topic. That clearly doesn't apply here.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

As for this? No, not everyone likes a debate where the debaters constantly sling insults at each other, present straw man arguments and unfairly project motives onto the other person in order to make their argument appear more convincing.

Personally, I prefer a debate where both sides respect each other and are willing to accept the other's argument in good faith, concede points and remain open to changing their mind on the topic. That clearly doesn't apply here.

Point taken but as a mod I am sure you have regularly seen the Interference masses flocking to a flame war clash that breaks out in one of the forums. It is in the very nature and make-up of human beings to be attracted to conflict.

Agree with me or not but it's true.

 

[PhilsFan]

Dude you really are an asshole and a bean-pole one at that. I completely understand why you love Hip-Hop. You see, it's generally very testosterone filled and macho which appeals to young males who want to identify with something so alpha-male. By doing this, it gives you guys a sense of power. The themes of most rap is very male oriented. Power, Sex, Money, Demonstrating superior rapping skills than the other guy. In my day, it was the same with metal.

Seriously, it takes guts to stand up for my opinion despite "no one being on my side". I don't require validation from a group of people on the internet to determine my self-worth. The funny thing is cobbler, many of the rappers you love use themes in their songs of the "lone wolf" up against the crowd and overcoming the odds through personal strength. I figured you would admire an Asian women in her 40's who sees obvious sexism and misogyny in hip-hop and therefore stands up for what is not right. You described in a earlier post that you were pissed off by the way people of color were being treated in Australia and that your music was misunderstood.

Finally, I am going to tell everyone about a course I took at the Collage of Charleston. (click the link)

College Offers Unique Course in Hip-Hop - College of Charleston News : College of Charleston News

I was one of the 70 students who attended this program and it really opened my eyes. Therefore, I actually do know something about Rap and as your beloved Ice Cube would say "You better check yourself before you wreck yourself".

Finally, if you want to be a real man instead of a little boy. Grow up and realize that others can question and debate your personal tastes without having to experience verbal abuse and childish passive-aggressive comments.

Diemen is right, you are "over the line". If I bother you that much then follow his advice. Otherwise, relax and keep a cool head. It's only music!

The problem isn't that we disagree with you, the problem is that your arguments don't make any sense. That's pretty much where I disagree with Cobbler here: that you have no one on your side around here isn't evidence of anything. It's fine to have an opinion. I don't care that you disagree. But your arguments are at different times a combination of petty, self-righteous, misinformed, and more than anything illogical. That's the real reason you're getting such a harsh response to your posts.

And lining yourself up with scumbags like Anonymous was not a good way to attempt to prove a point.

 

[Diemen]

Point taken but as a mod I am sure you have regularly seen the Interference masses flocking to a flame war clash that breaks out in one of the forums. It is in the very nature and make-up of human beings to be attracted to conflict.

Agree with me or not but it's true.

Sure, but, as a mod, I hate flame war clashes. I don't want flame wars, and certainly don't want you justifying continuing one by saying, essentially, "but everyone loves a train wreck!"

 

[LemonMelon]

What are the arguments being levied at this stage? That Kanye is an asshole and that he misuses his influence? There's a lot of truth in that, but I don't get what I, as a fan of his music, am supposed to do about that. I'm merely a fan that listens to the music and attends the shows; I don't go out of my way to support his every endeavor, so I'm not certain what I'm meant to concede here. Am I supposed to change him by no longer listening to The College Dropout on my own time? Seems like a vain and illogical endeavor.

I've never read a broad critique of hip hop as a whole that was not based to some degree in subjectivity (nothing wrong with this, but there's nothing I can say to it either), ignorance and generalities and I doubt today will be the day that changes that. If someone has a problem with the "offensive" lyrics in rap, listen to Black Star instead of NWA. If someone has a problem with sampling, listen to The Roots or the wonderful new Kendrick Lamar record instead of Paid in Full. It isn't hard at all to find exceptions to every argument that gets raised against the genre because, like every other genre, it is full of variety in both music and personalities.

 

[lazarus]

Ok Diemen, I'll let it go. I hope young cobbler can do the same.

"Letting it go", but not without another dig at Cobbler's age. I hope you cross the line again and get the boot you deserve. Pretty sure no one here wants you around any longer.

And no one gives a fuck about your scholastic credentials. Anyone can take a course, you're clearly too obtuse to have learned much from it based on your posts.

 

[Diemen]

Apparently my point about not lobbing insults wasn't clear enough.

 

[Teta040]

I don't think this was THE real Anonymous. They generally tend to fry much, much bigger fish than entertainers. Like someone else said in another thread, there are a lot of folks out there pretending to be THE Anonymous.

I grew suspicious when the relevant part of the video started--about 5:30 on--when they showed footage of world events and didn't even show Kanye's "GB doesn't like Black people" clip. HOW could they have missed that? If they wanted to remind Kanye how much potential he has as an artist with a voice, why not start with reminding him about that? Instead they sound like Internet Haterz ranting on for 5 minutes about fashion shows and stupid Kim crap before getting to the real point.

What's so special about Kanye that they target him? doesn't matter if the folks there are Kanye fans or not. They "target" who they want. I'd say Bono was much better candidate for a targeting after Dec 1, when everyone from BofA to Mayor DeBlasio to the NYPD to Bill plugging Hillary 2016 made an appearance at or were lauded at the (RED) event. Folks Anonymous can't exactly be fans of at the mo. You'd have thought that as far as Bono's fanboy squeeing for the Capitalists go, that would have been the straw that broke the camel's back for Anonymous.

And B wasn't even there. It would have been a perfect opportunity for Anonymous to lambast a guy who, unlike Kanye, with his close personal friendships with the 1%, DOES have the unique power to change the world in ways both good and very, very bad (eg: wonder why Jim Wolfenson got to be President of the World Bank? His confirmation was in serious danger as he was widely despised among European leaders; so via his buddy Larry Summers in the Bush Administration--you remember, the guy Bono went to Africa with, global media trailing along--he was told: "Go to Bono and give him some candy-coated crap about Africa, and he'll say nice things about you." Which is exactly what happened, Bono fell for his spiel like a ton of bricks, and once the Europeans learned that Bono liked him, enough of them changed their minds at the last second and voted to confirm him, so that he got the job. Naively they figured anyone Bono approved of couldn't be half so bad. I hope many rued that choice.
THAT's Power. )

Think that story is far-fetched? Well, welcome to Bono's world. It's true. I read it in a number of respected media sources at the time. You'd have thunk the folks at Anonymous have been keeping tabs with the company Bono has been keeping company with this past decade, and noting when the consequences have been negative. And some of those consequences have, b/c, even if Bono hadn't planned it that way. Instead they attack Kanye, who is not "behind the scenes" like Bono is with this stuff, and has far less real, actual power?

 

[cobl04]

Well I am quite skinny so bean-pole is probably on the mark. I'll just block RaisedByWolves. I genuinely enjoy getting in debates on the internet when both sides are coming at it respectfully and willing to concede ground. I don't mind at all being insulted, this is the internet so it's inconsequential. I have gone over the top but I've done that because your arguments about hip-hop have been asinine, ignorant and wrong, as several others here have said, and I get very frustrated when you continue to jump into arguments about a genre you clearly don't like. I don't like metal, so I don't talk about it. Simple. Anyhoo, I'm done.

 

[BVS]

I don't think this was THE real Anonymous. They generally tend to fry much, much bigger fish than entertainers. Like someone else said in another thread, there are a lot of folks out there pretending to be THE Anonymous.

I grew suspicious when the relevant part of the video started--about 5:30 on--when they showed footage of world events and didn't even show Kanye's "GB doesn't like Black people" clip. HOW could they have missed that? If they wanted to remind Kanye how much potential he has as an artist with a voice, why not start with reminding him about that? Instead they sound like Internet Haterz ranting on for 5 minutes about fashion shows and stupid Kim crap before getting to the real point.

What's so special about Kanye that they target him? doesn't matter if the folks there are Kanye fans or not. They "target" who they want. I'd say Bono was much better candidate for a targeting after Dec 1, when everyone from BofA to Mayor DeBlasio to the NYPD to Bill plugging Hillary 2016 made an appearance at or were lauded at the (RED) event. Folks Anonymous can't exactly be fans of at the mo. You'd have thought that as far as Bono's fanboy squeeing for the Capitalists go, that would have been the straw that broke the camel's back for Anonymous.

And B wasn't even there. It would have been a perfect opportunity for Anonymous to lambast a guy who, unlike Kanye, with his close personal friendships with the 1%, DOES have the unique power to change the world in ways both good and very, very bad (eg: wonder why Jim Wolfenson got to be President of the World Bank? His confirmation was in serious danger as he was widely despised among European leaders; so via his buddy Larry Summers in the Bush Administration--you remember, the guy Bono went to Africa with, global media trailing along--he was told: "Go to Bono and give him some candy-coated crap about Africa, and he'll say nice things about you." Which is exactly what happened, Bono fell for his spiel like a ton of bricks, and once the Europeans learned that Bono liked him, enough of them changed their minds at the last second and voted to confirm him, so that he got the job. Naively they figured anyone Bono approved of couldn't be half so bad. I hope many rued that choice.
THAT's Power. )

Think that story is far-fetched? Well, welcome to Bono's world. It's true. I read it in a number of respected media sources at the time. You'd have thunk the folks at Anonymous have been keeping tabs with the company Bono has been keeping company with this past decade, and noting when the consequences have been negative. And some of those consequences have, b/c, even if Bono hadn't planned it that way. Instead they attack Kanye, who is not "behind the scenes" like Bono is with this stuff, and has far less real, actual power?

WTF


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[lazarus]

 

[PhilsFan]

I don't think this was THE real Anonymous. They generally tend to fry much, much bigger fish than entertainers. Like someone else said in another thread, there are a lot of folks out there pretending to be THE Anonymous.

Anyone who says they're Anonymous is Anonymous. That's the whole point of (and one of the many major problems with) Anonymous. It's a dangerous, amorphus blob of hate-filled white men who use their influence against genuinely bad people just frequently enough to convince themselves they're good people and not supreme assholes.

 

[VintagePunk]

It does take two to tango but let's be honest, everyone generally likes a strong debate that's what attracts people to forums like this. "The Bystander effect" as it is commonly called.

...not sure you fully comprehend The Bystander Effect.

Anyone who says they're Anonymous is Anonymous. That's the whole point of (and one of the many major problems with) Anonymous. It's a dangerous, amorphus blob of hate-filled white men who use their influence against genuinely bad people just frequently enough to convince themselves they're good people and not supreme assholes.

Yup. The Anonymous kids on 4Chan are particularly dreadful. But the group years back who spearheaded the Scientology protests? Awesome

 

[gump]

Guys. It takes guts to defende one's opinion on the internet. It is so lonely here.

 

[gvox]

What are the arguments being levied at this stage? That Kanye is an asshole and that he misuses his influence? There's a lot of truth in that, but I don't get what I, as a fan of his music, am supposed to do about that. I'm merely a fan that listens to the music and attends the shows; I don't go out of my way to support his every endeavor, so I'm not certain what I'm meant to concede here. Am I supposed to change him by no longer listening to The College Dropout on my own time? Seems like a vain and illogical endeavor.

I've never read a broad critique of hip hop as a whole that was not based to some degree in subjectivity (nothing wrong with this, but there's nothing I can say to it either), ignorance and generalities and I doubt today will be the day that changes that. If someone has a problem with the "offensive" lyrics in rap, listen to Black Star instead of NWA. If someone has a problem with sampling, listen to The Roots or the wonderful new Kendrick Lamar record instead of Paid in Full. It isn't hard at all to find exceptions to every argument that gets raised against the genre because, like every other genre, it is full of variety in both music and personalities.

This is probably the single most worthwhile post in this entire thread. Bravo.


Sent from my ass crack

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Guys. It takes guts to defende one's opinion on the internet. It is so lonely here.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

"Letting it go", but not without another dig at Cobbler's age. I hope you cross the line again and get the boot you deserve. Pretty sure no one here wants you around any longer.

And no one gives a fuck about your scholastic credentials. Anyone can take a course, you're clearly too obtuse to have learned much from it based on your posts.

Boot I deserve? It is fortunate for us all your not a mod otherwise.

 

[gvox]

Stifle it, Edith


Sent from my ass crack