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Old 11-06-2013, 09:28 AM   #421
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Lighten up, gabe. He's trying to have a discussion.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:31 AM   #422
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Worth keeping in mind the Cobbs is not from North America and therefore likely has a different understanding of the Civil War that those of us who grew up with it taught in history class.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:41 AM   #423
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And that America puts way more stock in the symbolism of flags than ... any other country.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:02 AM   #424
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Speaking as a Southerner, I don't equate that flag with slavery right off the bat. It's not the number one connotation for me. If Yeezy wants to co-opt the image, more power to him. I totally understand where the association between the two is, but I think calling it a racist symbol is a bit shortsighted. A lot of people look at it as a point of pride in differentiating their lifestyle from that of the Northeast. Doesn't necessarily mean they want to own black people in 2013.

I should clarify that while there are elements of the South I love dearly, I don't identify myself with it or (by extension) the confederate flag. Just trying to play devil's advocate here.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:48 AM   #425
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Kanye considers himself an influential individual and wants to turn a negative into a positive by taking a racially inflammatory symbol and placing it in a new context. He already did it with Klan imagery months ago, it's not exactly surprising that he's putting the Confederate flag on tour merchandise.

Misguided, stupid, insane, whatever; one of Yeezus' themes was supposedly the experience of the black male in 2013 in contrast to the past (pretty evident in New Slaves, BOTL) and now he's taking imagery like this and trying to update it. In the grand scheme of the album's promotional cycle, it makes a lot of sense, even if it looks ridiculous out of context.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:56 AM   #426
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Well said.
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:10 PM   #427
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Right, and an even greater number of people think it's patently offensive.

Which is also likely why I've never tattoo'd multiple swastikas all over my body, even though I've had dreams where an old man with a white beard and long flowing white garments came to me and told me it was my duty to reclaim it as a positive symbol.
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:25 PM   #428
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Right, and an even greater number of people think it's patently offensive.

Which is also likely why I've never tattoo'd multiple swastikas all over my body, even though I've had dreams where an old man with a white beard and long flowing white garments came to me and told me it was my duty to reclaim it as a positive symbol.
This isn't the same thing, though.
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:29 PM   #429
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That so many people get off on being offended is one of the worst things about our culture.
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:39 PM   #430
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This isn't the same thing, though.
You're right: the swastika, unlike the Confederate flag, has actual legitimate historical uses that have positive meanings.
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:45 PM   #431
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That so many people get off on being offended is one of the worst things about our culture.
I'll tell you what else is one of the worst things about our culture: revisionist bs like 'it's just a symbol of our wish to live a different lifestyle than the north'.

No. That is false. It's a symbol of the Confederacy, the major purpose of which was to defend the "right" to own slaves, treat black people as inferior, prevent other states from harboring runaway slaves, and continue slavery right on into the 20th century had they been permitted.

And if you've forgotten that, maybe re-read your respective state's Declaration on the Immediate Causes of Secession (or related title, as applicable)
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:19 PM   #432
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Do you always have to be so abrasive when it comes to a normal discussion?
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:26 PM   #433
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You mean a discussion in which you aren't even participating?
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:14 PM   #434
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You're right: the swastika, unlike the Confederate flag, has actual legitimate historical uses that have positive meanings.
Are you intentionally being obtuse?
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:18 PM   #435
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You mean a discussion in which you aren't even participating?
It was a general observation.

Thanks for confirming.
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