Jay-Z - Converts and Hat Eaters

[Saracene]

I still wouldn't rush out to buy his records, but I really enjoyed Jay-Z as the opening act, especially at my second U2 GA show. He's a fantastic, charismatic performer

 

[dan_smee]

But it's awful. No different than recommending ATYCLB for its accessibility, tbh. "Accessibility" is also kind of a silly concept when discussing one of the biggest mainstream rappers of the past two decades.

Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint 1. If you don't like either, don't bother.

A) what een said
B) atyclb is a great recommendation to ween someone onto u2
C) not that mainstream in Oceania
D) like saying if u don't like TJT or AB, don't bother with u2. They didn't make 10 other great albums...

 

[coolian2]

considering who i was recommending it to, someone not particularly into hip-hop who would benefit more from the springboard of something closer to a rock album than a hip-hop album.

i'd recommend a different major u2 album to a metallica fan than i would a kelly clarkson fan, as dan said.

let's assume i know what i'm saying sometimes

 

[the tourist]

oh, it is? shit, i'd better stop enjoying it then.

Empire State Of Mind is one of my favorite of his songs.

 

[bono_man2002]

 

[dan_smee]

considering who i was recommending it to, someone not particularly into hip-hop who would benefit more from the springboard of something closer to a rock album than a hip-hop album.

i'd recommend a different major u2 album to a metallica fan than i would a kelly clarkson fan, as dan said.

let's assume i know what i'm saying sometimes

Dangerous assumption there een. People may start believing crazy things, like NZ can play cricket...

 

[gvox]

Dan's got 99 problems and Jay-Z ain't one of 'em.










(it had to be said )

 

[cobl04]

I would kill to hear this song in a stadium. Gold Digger just wasn't epic enough at the time.

i think this is the main reason Kanye went down like a fart in an elevator... he didn't have the songs yet. Jay-Z definitely does.

But it's awful. No different than recommending ATYCLB for its accessibility, tbh. "Accessibility" is also kind of a silly concept when discussing one of the biggest mainstream rappers of the past two decades.

Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint 1. If you don't like either, don't bother.

but i think Atty Club is great, so

but yeah,

is the album i would recommend. "accessible", some big hits on it (Izzo, Girls) and good from start to finish. if you liked his live sets go my fav,

.

his recent albums may not have set the critics alight but his live show is phenomenal.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

the black album's the one that really got me hooked.

jay-z is a great lyricist and a phenomenal, charismatic performer... i only wish u2 would have tabbed him for the meadowlands show instead of interpol

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I do agree that for whatever technical/acoustics/justabitflat reasons, Kanye wasn't that good on Vertigo. And I say that only in comparison to himself. I've seen his own show twice, and he's fucking outstanding. It was just something about the sound - with that dominant string section as well - didn't work. But he was really trying - all over the stage, really working the crowd. Not his fault at all.

I really like Jay-Z, both his music and him too - very smart/interesting/funny guy, but I don't think he'd be in my personal Top Whatever list of hip-hop artists.

The pairing with U2 makes a lot of sense. He kind of is the U2 of hip-hop.

 

[gvox]

Kanye worked just fine in an arena, and he had the venue filled quicker and hopping higher than any of the other arena openers on the tour. It was a very good show.

Maybe his sound just wasn't big enough for the stadium setting yet back then. I think this most recent album would definitely work in a stadium, barring technical difficulties of course. If he had a full on band like Jay-Zs, that would also likely help.

 

[LemonMelon]

oh, it is? shit, i'd better stop enjoying it then.

Terrific. I'm glad you like it; that bodes well for other albums. I just hope you wouldn't recommend Human Touch to someone when Born To Run exists, or Down In The Groove over Highway 61 Revisited. The first Blueprint is comparable to either in the hip-hop community.

Also, ATYCLB is a crappy introduction to U2 for one main reason: why waste people's time with Grace, Wild Honey and Peace on Earth when nearly every song on Joshua Tree is a landmark?

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

i think this is the main reason Kanye went down like a fart in an elevator... he didn't have the songs yet.

I have to strongly disagree with that. The two albums of material he had at his disposal on the Vertigo tour are still easily my two favorite Kanye albums. I saw him on one of his headlining shows in support of Late Registration, and he had plenty of songs.

 

[corianderstem]

I was just going to say that. His set for me was all about Jesus Walks, which is a killer song.

Also, I bought that Jay-Z hits collection at Target last weekend. I'm disappointed it doesn't have that "Can I Get A ..." song on it (is that what it's called?). Not because it's like the pinnacle of his career or anything, but it's one of the few songs of his I'm familiar with.

But I love Empire State of Mind.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

They were obviously trying to do something a bit different. It was, I guess, not too long after he did the Orchestration thing, and they had a maybe eight person string section, and they re-arranged/re-worked the songs for that. And they didn't seem to get the sound for it right. You know if you turn a Treble Booster up too high on a cheap stereo or something, it all just gets sharp and thin? It sounded like that. My guess is they overcooked it trying to bring the strings to the front all around the stadium, trying to counter the natural dominance of the bass, and it had a similar effect.

So adjusted arrangements that just didn't take off in that setting (e.g a song like Touch the Sky - which would have gone down a treat if big and booming - the strings were prominent in playing the Curtis Mayfield sample, the actual brass sample quite quiet behind them) and that sharp/thin mix meant it was a nice try, but it just didn't come together well at all. Which was a shame. As I said, a full Kanye show is fucking fantastic and I was really looking forward to his support slots, and he was busting his gut up there to win the crowd over.

 

[LemonMelon]

But I love Empire State of Mind.

Oh, and I don't mean to say that I don't. I absolutely love it. He's just really, really inconsistent these days. Actually, he sort of always has been.

The GH collection is decent except for the lack of Reasonable Doubt material. I have no idea what the logic of leaving out Dead Presidents was.

 

[corianderstem]

Oh, and I don't mean to say that I don't.

I haven't read the last page or so of the thread and only caught that there was some minor hurf-durfing. So for the record, that wasn't supposed to be my two cents in the discussion. It was just my two cents on Jay-Z.

 

[bono_212]

I am cap in hand my friend.

I don't think I ever said I don;t like him or his music (never really had an opinion before Monday night), but I just didn't tink he was right for U2

I don't feel like going to prove you wrong or anything, mostly because I'm lazy, but you weren't simply saying you didn't like his music. You were being overly dramatic, over the top, flat out hated the idea of it, and you were being a bit of, excuse the term, a dick.

Also, maybe this is the reason why people react so negatively to your posting.

 

[bono_212]

Personally speaking, I've only heard The Grey Album, if you can take that as any kind of recommendation grounds, I would say that it seems like The Black Album is an obvious place to start at.

 

[dan_smee]

I don't feel like going to prove you wrong or anything, mostly because I'm lazy, but you weren't simply saying you didn't like his music. You were being overly dramatic, over the top, flat out hated the idea of it, and you were being a bit of, excuse the term, a dick.


Also, maybe this is the reason why people react so negatively to your posting.

You didn't counter anything I said though... Nothing in that diatribe suggested that I had any problem with him personally or his music

If someone can find where I said I didn't like his music or went beyond anything I've stated here, I will happily eat my words again. Hey, I've always liked Stranded, and the only other song of his that I knew was him was Hard Knock Life, which I also liked

I have admitted I was wrong to assume that it would be bad because Kanye was a bad choice. What more can I say? I made an assumption that because of acoustic issues with Kanye, and other performance issues (definatly not saying Kanye personally was bad) that Jay-Z would run into the same problems and take the wind out of he excitement of building up to a U2 show.

And yeah, I went too negative. I did. Again, I was wrong. I was reacting to someone who has a default setting on 'negative', but it doesn't justify what I did. Apologies to you Philsfan.

Have to say though, doesn't take much courage to kick someone when they start a thread to admit they were wrong about something

 

[PhilsFan]

I honestly just thought you were starting a thread about people who were bashing Jay-Z until they saw him live at the U2 shows, and not just a thread about Jay-Z. I was confused by the intent of the thread more than anything, I wasn't trying to insult you.

 

[coolian2]

I don't feel like going to prove you wrong or anything, mostly because I'm lazy, but you weren't simply saying you didn't like his music. You were being overly dramatic, over the top, flat out hated the idea of it, and you were being a bit of, excuse the term, a dick.

unless i missed a post somewhere, i don't really believe that describes dan's reaction all that adequately at all.

 

[Saracene]

It was just something about the sound - with that dominant string section as well - didn't work. But he was really trying - all over the stage, really working the crowd. Not his fault at all.

I thought that Kanye really worked his ass off trying to win over the crowd, but his delivery was too shrill and shouty, especially on Gold Digger.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

It was mostly because Kanye's shortcomings seemed to be that the stadium setting wasn't suited to fast talking, and intricate layered beats. You missed all that, and he just seemed out of breathe and flat because of it. It wasn't his fault, it was mostly the sound system and the acoustic of the stadium.

Understandable. I've never really seen any examples of Kanye performing live, so I can't really comment on him specifically, but I can definitely see where that would be a problem for an artist. And I fully agree that a band should pick an opening act that will work just as well in the stadium/arena/intimate club as they would, that just makes complete sense.

"Gold Digger" is an incredibly catchy song. I've always liked that one, and I imagine, in the right setting, it'd be insanely fun live. "Jesus Walks" would no doubt be quite a moment, too.

Also, I bought that Jay-Z hits collection at Target last weekend. I'm disappointed it doesn't have that "Can I Get A ..." song on it (is that what it's called?). Not because it's like the pinnacle of his career or anything, but it's one of the few songs of his I'm familiar with.

That is strange-not the highlight, no, but that was a pretty big early hit of his, so it should've been on there (and yeah, that is the right title ).

But I love Empire State of Mind.

I do, too .

Angela

 

[cobl04]

I have to strongly disagree with that. The two albums of material he had at his disposal on the Vertigo tour are still easily my two favorite Kanye albums. I saw him on one of his headlining shows in support of Late Registration, and he had plenty of songs.

well Aussies correct me if i'm wrong, but he wasn't exactly HUGE here in 06, was he? but you do make a good point, it probably was more to do with this:

They were obviously trying to do something a bit different. It was, I guess, not too long after he did the Orchestration thing, and they had a maybe eight person string section, and they re-arranged/re-worked the songs for that. And they didn't seem to get the sound for it right. You know if you turn a Treble Booster up too high on a cheap stereo or something, it all just gets sharp and thin? It sounded like that. My guess is they overcooked it trying to bring the strings to the front all around the stadium, trying to counter the natural dominance of the bass, and it had a similar effect.

So adjusted arrangements that just didn't take off in that setting (e.g a song like Touch the Sky - which would have gone down a treat if big and booming - the strings were prominent in playing the Curtis Mayfield sample, the actual brass sample quite quiet behind them) and that sharp/thin mix meant it was a nice try, but it just didn't come together well at all. Which was a shame. As I said, a full Kanye show is fucking fantastic and I was really looking forward to his support slots, and he was busting his gut up there to win the crowd over.

also, Philedelphia Phillies Supporter, you said in the Kanye thread something like "if we studied Jay-Z's lyrics we'd realise why there's an income gap in this country". i did not understand, please elaborate.

 

[PhilsFan]

also, Philedelphia Phillies Supporter, you said in the Kanye thread something like "if we studied Jay-Z's lyrics we'd realise why there's an income gap in this country". i did not understand, please elaborate.

I was making a joke about how he has said multiple times in his lyrics that he made people millionaires.

 

[cobl04]

Ohh... see without I missed that.

 

[bono_212]

unless i missed a post somewhere, i don't really believe that describes dan's reaction all that adequately at all.

I'm referring to some posts I recall him making in one of the set-list parties, and as he said above, he pretty much recognizes that he went a bit over the top, which, Dan, I think is fine of you to admit, so I'm done being bitchy about any of this .

 

[MMP]

If only Kanye was opening the South American shows... But oh well, Muse is good.

 

[blueeyedgirl]

I still wouldn't rush out to buy his records, but I really enjoyed Jay-Z as the opening act, especially at my second U2 GA show. He's a fantastic, charismatic performer

This. I won't go out of my way to buy or listen to his stuff, but he did impress me live.

And yeah, if in 4 years' time U2 announces yet another rap/hip hop etc artist as support in Australia, I'm still gonna bitch about it