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Old 05-04-2014, 11:50 PM   #196
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IYup loves jazz and doesn't want any ignant shit, making east coast rap a logical entry point.
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Old 05-04-2014, 11:57 PM   #197
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I will back up Cassie though, there is definitely a huge amount of west coast material worth hearing. You may not dig the likes of Dre's 2001 iYup, but yeah, Doggystyle rules, and you should at least get a Tupac best of or something.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:02 AM   #198
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IYup loves jazz and doesn't want any ignant shit, making east coast rap a logical entry point.

well aware of what he likes. I'm sick of seeing east coast this and that when there's plenty of rap from elsewhere that's not (again I fucking hate this phrase too because it's classist as fuck) "ignant shit."
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:10 AM   #199
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Meh, it goes both ways. I get tired of idiots on KTT and Boxden calling artists who put effort into their lyrics corny, dusty, etc. It's not classicism or ignorance, it's a matter of taste. We all just happen to agree a lot in here, so discussion heads east.

Obviously, if you've never heard Ridin' Dirty, you should stop what you're doing and go do so. Just trying to be helpful within this specific context.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:16 AM   #200
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And if we're talking about thoughtful lyricism from the south, you can't overlook CunninLynguists. Their discography is amazing.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:19 AM   #201
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I'm a bit of an in-between-er. I get very annoyed when people dismiss all rap as "drugs, guns, money, bitches" etc and will point to hip-hop that makes a complete and utter mockery of those claims. But the reality is there is a lot of rap that is about that side of things, and to be honest, most of it is really fucking awesome. Gin n Juice is of course a west coast gangsta rap classic that deserves to be put up there with the best hip-hop tracks.

But then you have the modern-day stuff that might come under the term 'ignant' (which I've never even heard of until just now)... Waka Flocka Flame and all that sort of music. I know Cassie derives a lot of enjoyment from it but personally I cannot stand it. I've tried, but I just can't.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:27 AM   #202
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As far as "ignant" music goes, I hate trap, I'll be upfront about that. In a vaccuum, it's listenable in small doses, but I hate how thoroughly it has permeated the genre. I like its sonic minimalism but can't support its encouragement of lyrical mediocrity and repetitive arrangements. God knows I've tried. It's just not my thing.

The new Waka song is boring, he needs Lex back.
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:05 AM   #203
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I'm not a fan either, the production sounds too tinny and superficial to me (although Backseat Freestyle is pretty trap, and I like that beat).

But I will say it's a lot of fun live. The Run the Jewels x Earl x Danny Brown gig I saw had a fair bit of trap in the latter two's sets and it was good fun.

And BADBADNOTGOOD do an absolutely fucking wicked cover of TNGHT's Bugg'n. Slaughters the original.

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Old 05-05-2014, 12:22 PM   #204
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Alright, I've got Black Star, Low-End Theory, and Illmatic cued up in addition to the ones I mentioned before. Thanks for all the recommendations.

Oneblood, I'm not trying to insinuate that any iteration of this genre has any more depth or value than any other. I know that something like NWA comes from a genuine place of social commentary. That type of rap just strikes me as highly visceral and reactive where I tend to gravitate toward music that is more reflective. So just a matter of taste, really.
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:32 PM   #205
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Be sure to post your thoughts, very interested to see what you think of them, but...

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highly visceral and reactive

aren't these the exact reasons you liked Yeezus so much?
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:32 PM   #206
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I did like Yeezus a lot, yeah. But I think it's more that it struck me as an intelligent record, which is not a word I would have used to describe Kanye before it. There's a critical angle on something like "Blood on the Leaves" that is more, shall we say, clever than "Fuck the Police."
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:05 PM   #207
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Hmm, I think you're overrating the former and underselling the latter (no offence intended, just a discussion!). I love Yeezus a great deal. But if you look at Blood on the Leaves... it's about a relationship. I love the song, but aside from the brilliant Nina Simone sample, I don't see what makes it more clever than Fuck the Police.

Now Fuck the Police is an easy target, because the song essentially kicks off with Ice Cube's "fuck the police / coming straight from the underground" but it's the context which makes it so thrilling and so visceral. NWA and that album were literally the first hip-hop group to make music that dealt so strongly with those issues. It might not be particularly subtle, but that's what makes it so great. It's an expression of sheer frustration and anger.
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:58 PM   #208
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I'm already out of my depth in this discussion, so I'll get back to you once I've done some listening.
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:53 PM   #209
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Hip-Hop Talk II

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Originally Posted by iron yuppie View Post
Alright, I've got Black Star, Low-End Theory, and Illmatic cued up in addition to the ones I mentioned before. Thanks for all the recommendations.

Oneblood, I'm not trying to insinuate that any iteration of this genre has any more depth or value than any other. I know that something like NWA comes from a genuine place of social commentary. That type of rap just strikes me as highly visceral and reactive where I tend to gravitate toward music that is more reflective. So just a matter of taste, really.

my frustration wasn't aimed at you at all.

this is a discussion we've had a few times in here and LM and cobbler both know very well where I stand. I could honestly talk all day about language and rap and the issues I have with describing marginalized voices as "intelligent" vs "ignant." I live everyday of my life immersed in this culture and have a degree in pop music studies, where a good portion of my writing was about rap, so I also have the academic background to back up what I'm saying about those specific things in relation to society and rap. I'm really passionate about the portrayal of the genre and that can step into overzealousness at times, so I apologize for throwing you into the fire right away iYup, that wasn't my intention.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:06 AM   #210
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Sounds like I would be getting way in over my head if I got into this discussion too far with Cassie. I don't think the two sociolinguistics courses I've taken would be of much help.

Not that I disagree with her to any significant degree. I've spent the last five years trying to educate myself about the genre so that I could, in turn, represent it properly to people who still think it's all guns, cars and bitches (and place those subjects into a greater societal context because honestly I think they possess a certain cultural interest).
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