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Old 10-07-2008, 04:08 AM   #121
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This whole group system is flawed. And I'm not saying it cos I'm losing, lol. I'm saying it because it just doesn't make sense to me at all. I'm playing 4 other people randomly chosen from a hat... and losing to the more popular lists, which is fine. But in the meantime, somebody in another group may have a list that could be even less liked than mine and if I played that person I might win but I never get that chance with this system. Now, I know this is the system that many sporting tournaments follow... particularly World Cup Soccer. But don't they put teams together based on their strength or standing? I mean they would never put a newcomer in a group with Germany, Brazil and Italy. The problem here is there is no way to determine which are the stronger lists since it is all subjective. This is why the group system does not translate well to a music competition. Everyone should be allowed to play everyone else! Round Robin I guess? That means we'll have a lot more matches but at least it would be fair to all.
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Old 10-07-2008, 04:43 AM   #122
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Okay my DI-6 list is ready and I'm already 100% more psyched for that one than the present one! Any idea when we'll have it?

I second the sentiment of this, though my DI VI isn't finalised (it's close, though).
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:03 AM   #123
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This whole group system is flawed. And I'm not saying it cos I'm losing, lol. I'm saying it because it just doesn't make sense to me at all. I'm playing 4 other people randomly chosen from a hat... and losing to the more popular lists, which is fine. But in the meantime, somebody in another group may have a list that could be even less liked than mine and if I played that person I might win but I never get that chance with this system. Now, I know this is the system that many sporting tournaments follow... particularly World Cup Soccer. But don't they put teams together based on their strength or standing? I mean they would never put a newcomer in a group with Germany, Brazil and Italy. The problem here is there is no way to determine which are the stronger lists since it is all subjective. This is why the group system does not translate well to a music competition. Everyone should be allowed to play everyone else! Round Robin I guess? That means we'll have a lot more matches but at least it would be fair to all.
Actually, they do put newcomers with strong teams. Usually, there's 4 teams per group, and each nation is tiered off into 4 pots, and a team from each pot is put in each group. The trouble with that is you have strong teams going in weak pots so you can end up with groups like Argentina, Netherlands, Mexico and Australia, for instance, which would be hell.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:51 AM   #124
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like i said for this competition, if you need help with keying stuff, i could do it for you
Thanks. You just keep my threads open.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:58 AM   #125
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This whole group system is flawed. And I'm not saying it cos I'm losing, lol. I'm saying it because it just doesn't make sense to me at all. I'm playing 4 other people randomly chosen from a hat... and losing to the more popular lists, which is fine. But in the meantime, somebody in another group may have a list that could be even less liked than mine and if I played that person I might win but I never get that chance with this system. Now, I know this is the system that many sporting tournaments follow... particularly World Cup Soccer. But don't they put teams together based on their strength or standing? I mean they would never put a newcomer in a group with Germany, Brazil and Italy. The problem here is there is no way to determine which are the stronger lists since it is all subjective. This is why the group system does not translate well to a music competition. Everyone should be allowed to play everyone else! Round Robin I guess? That means we'll have a lot more matches but at least it would be fair to all.
This is Round Robin style already. You have to split it up into groups. There's no way we could have each person play everyone. It would just take too long. Have you ever heard of a tournament that does that? I sure haven't.

And as Mr. V mentioned, they usually don't stack all the strong teams together in one group in the World Cup. That wouldn't make any sense. And since, as you say, music is subjective, the only fair way to do this, in my mind, is by drawing at random. I actually think the groups got spread out quite evenly this time.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:30 PM   #126
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Thanks. You just keep my threads open.


oh, and re: the whole group thing, i think we should put me in my own group. so then i always win
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:50 PM   #127
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Sure it is Round Robin but only after the groups are selected. I think that is the problem... because with this system how you do depends on who your neighbors are. It should depend on how popular the list is in comparison to EVERY other list.

Anyway, I realize that a group less round robin would make it longer but it seems to be the only way to judge the overall standing of each list. I personally don't know any tournaments that do this but there has to be something better than randomly tossing people into groups. Perhaps group the playlists on how similar they are? Example: Put indie lists together in one group so they don't consistently lose out to the more popular ones. But we'd have to think about what other similarities are there to use for grouping. I don't know.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:03 PM   #128
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Sure it is Round Robin but only after the groups are selected. I think that is the problem... because with this system how you do depends on who your neighbors are. It should depend on how popular the list is in comparison to EVERY other list.

Anyway, I realize that a group less round robin would make it longer but it seems to be the only way to judge the overall standing of each list. I personally don't know any tournaments that do this but there's gotta be something better than randomly tossing people into groups. Perhaps group the playlists on how similar they are? Example: Put indie lists together in one group so they don't consistently lose out to the more popular ones. But we'd have to think about what other similarities are there to use for grouping. I don't know.
Zoots what would you think of something like this:

We play the group round robin and every playlist finishes in either 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th place in thier group. Then all the 5th place playlists go against each other for example leading to a 5th place representative. The same thing happens with the 4th, 3rd and 2nd place playlists. Then the four 1st place playlists play those four representatives. Which leads to a final and champion. I'm not suggesting we do that but would that be a better system to you?
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:08 PM   #129
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Zoots what would you think of something like this:

We play the group round robin and every playlist finishes in either 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th place in thier group. Then all the 5th place playlists go against each other for example leading to a 5th place representative. The same thing happens with the 4th, 3rd and 2nd place playlists. Then the four 1st place playlists play those four representatives. Which leads to a final and champion. I'm not suggesting we do that but would that be a better system to you?
It definitely sounds more fair than the present system. I'm curious as to how it would work out.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:14 PM   #130
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I don't think doing it that way would depict a champion the right way. There are playlists that finish in second in a group that could go on to win the whole thing outright.

I still don't see how it would be more fair than what we have right now, to be honest. It's never going to be perfect. It actually worked out very well this time. For example, in Group 1, it is spread evenly between a few veterans and two newcomers.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:19 PM   #131
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Without extending the competition, the only thing I can think of that may work is this. The playlists get sent out to everyone, we give people several weeks to listen to them all, and then they send in their rankings of the lists. And then, based on those rankings, we compile the groups from them, distributing them evenly, and proceed as normal.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:21 PM   #132
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It actually worked out very well this time. For example, in Group 1, it is spread evenly between a few veterans and two newcomers.
Wait.. didn't you guys say that I got a tough draw yet again? Now you're saying it's even?
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:21 PM   #133
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Without extending the competition, the only thing I can think of that may work is this. The playlists get sent out to everyone, we give people several weeks to listen to them all, and then they send in their rankings of the lists. And then, based on those rankings, we compile the groups from them, distributing them evenly, and proceed as normal.
Now this I like.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:22 PM   #134
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It definitely sounds more fair than the present system. I'm curious as to how it would work out.
I think the advantage to something like that beyond maybe being more fair in some people's minds is that it would keep people interested. I mean how many lose their first match or two and stop being interested. This way everyone would stay interested for a lot longer. I don't know, just a idea to throw out there.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:23 PM   #135
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BTW, are we having matches today or tomorrow? I forget what the setup was in DI4 from round 2 on.
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