Desert Island IX: Master List, Part Four

[bono_212]

We have been doing this for, what, five years now? With the 160 minute length. There's been an undercurrent of wanting shorter lists for a little while now, and I'm all for trying something different. It seems that it's now a majority opinion, rather than the minority it once was.

 

[LemonMelon]

Then what should the time limit be. 80? 100? 120?

I won't participate in a regular 80 minute tournament. The range is too limited and it allows for less creativity in terms of pacing and genre selection. Anything I come up with would seem like a lame mixtape I threw together. The reason 80 was the limit for mini DIs in the past is that the lists were themed, but if you're opening up the entire world of music, it becomes impossible to make a really nice experience out of it. For a mini DI, you're narrowing the field enough to to make it work. The best lists we've had in standard DI cover a multitude of genres and I want to encourage that sort of variety.

People's ideas should dictate how much time they need. If they're feeling ambitious, allow them to stretch it out and run the risk of no one listening or caring. If they have a very narrow theme or small crop of songs to draw from and they feel they can say what they need to say in 80 minutes, that's fine too. It may very well work in their favor. But not all of us process music the same way.

 

[LemonMirrorSky]

Maybe a lot of people are just getting older and busier with their jobs and life responsibilities.

 

[djerdap]

100 seems reasonable to me. But that's just me, I'm more of a "less is more" kind of a guy.

 

[LMP]

Then what should the time limit be. 80? 100? 120?

I won't participate in a regular 80 minute tournament. The range is too limited and it allows for less creativity in terms of pacing and genre selection. Anything I come up with would seem like a lame mixtape I threw together. The reason 80 was the limit for mini DIs in the past is that the lists were themed, but if you're opening up the entire world of music, it becomes impossible to make a really nice experience out of it. For a mini DI, you're narrowing the field enough to to make it work. The best lists we've had in standard DI cover a multitude of genres and I want to encourage that sort of variety.

People's ideas should dictate how much time they need. If they're feeling ambitious, allow them to stretch it out and run the risk of no one listening or caring. If they have a very narrow theme or small crop of songs to draw from and they feel they can say what they need to say in 80 minutes, that's fine too. It may very well work in their favor. But not all of us process music the same way.

80 minutes is a tight squeeze, no doubt. Agreed that it's too short for the purposes of this contest/tournament of dorks.

At this point, either keeping this current silent ranking system while shortening the list length (160 min. to 120 min. seems fair to me), protracting it back to the tourney set-up with the same submission standards, or cutting back the number of participants (which I'm not in favor for) are changes that warrant discussion. If someone contributes a list, whether its 80 or 160 min., it should be spotlighted as much as possible to invite discussion. I don't believe that this current format achieves that.

 

[bono_212]

I think it worked the very first time we did it, because we had the running diary thread. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it certainly turned into its own little chat thread pretty easily and I think the participation stayed pretty high throughout.

This time, and the last time, I dreaded my list not being in the first two groups, because I knew if it was in three or beyond, I'd only get feedback from a handful of people. So far, I've hard back from two.

But I'm just as guilty. I only gave feedback to the people in the first thread, because I'm just a jerk, I guess.

 

[namkcuR]

Then what should the time limit be. 80? 100? 120?

I won't participate in a regular 80 minute tournament. The range is too limited and it allows for less creativity in terms of pacing and genre selection. Anything I come up with would seem like a lame mixtape I threw together. The reason 80 was the limit for mini DIs in the past is that the lists were themed, but if you're opening up the entire world of music, it becomes impossible to make a really nice experience out of it. For a mini DI, you're narrowing the field enough to to make it work. The best lists we've had in standard DI cover a multitude of genres and I want to encourage that sort of variety.

People's ideas should dictate how much time they need. If they're feeling ambitious, allow them to stretch it out and run the risk of no one listening or caring. If they have a very narrow theme or small crop of songs to draw from and they feel they can say what they need to say in 80 minutes, that's fine too. It may very well work in their favor. But not all of us process music the same way.

I can see it from two perspectives. From the perspective of a list-maker, I agree that the longer time limit lends itself to more creativity and to more fully fleshing a concept out. However, from the perspective of a listener, I think a lot of people, including myself, feel that listening to 20 2-2.5 hour lists is just a bit much.

Logically, I feel like either the time limit needs to be shortened, or the number of contestants per contest needs to be lowered(to, like, 5-10). I feel like fewer participants would make ranking easier and less arbitrary as well.

As for ranking vs polling, I lean towards ranking. The reason is that I feel like these contests should be about discussion, and the polls make it more about winning and losing. I understand the argument that the polls were conducive to keeping conversation going as the competition goes on whereas ranking puts no pressure on anyone to participate, but I feel like that was more just because only 2 lists at a time were being posted rather than because of the polls themselves, and I would absolutely support lowering the number of lists that gets posted at a time.

So, I'm imagining something like, maybe a 120-minute time-limit, max, with, say, 5-10 participants, and maybe only one list at a time is posted, or two max. And then maybe we could say, if you compete in a DI, then you can't compete in the next two, or something like that, just so it's not the same ten people over and over again.

Those are my thoughts anyway.

 

[IWasBored]

I get a folder full of a whole lot of nothing when I download LMP's list. Tried twice, it was empty both times. Huh?

 

[LMP]

nielsgov was able to listen to it fine. If you have any more issues I'll do my best to take care of it.

 

[djerdap]

I have the same problem. I got nuts before listening a note.

 

[PhilsFan]

Oh shit, I forgot the rankings were due. I'll have mine in for the weekend if we're moving it back to then.

 

[LMP]

I downloaded again from my link, unzipped and had no problems. If anyone else experiences this problem I will upload from another source.

 

[IWasBored]

Hmm. I have no idea other than maybe it's a mac thing? I vaguely remember having an issue once before where I downloaded someone's playlist and the only thing that actually downloaded was an empty mac_osx folder inside the zipped file. Think it was phanan's several lists ago, yet the last couple have spawned two copies of each track when I go to unzip anything uploaded by someone who used a Mac. But I don't know why any of this, let alone if they're related.


I did discover two other things though: I did listen to more playlists so far than I thought I did. And too many of your usernames abbreviate to LM-something acronyms.

 

[LMP]

Hmm. I have no idea other than maybe it's a mac thing? I vaguely remember having an issue once before where I downloaded someone's playlist and the only thing that actually downloaded was an empty mac_osx folder inside the zipped file. Think it was phanan's several lists ago, yet the last couple have spawned two copies of each track when I go to unzip anything uploaded by someone who used a Mac. But I don't know why any of this, let alone if they're related.

I did discover two other things though: I did listen to more playlists so far than I thought I did. And too many of your usernames abbreviate to LM-something acronyms.

I am using a Mac, though like you I don't know how it could be a culprit.

We're all secretly the same person.

 

[the tourist]

Oh shit, I forgot the rankings were due. I'll have mine in for the weekend if we're moving it back to then.

Same here.

For some reason I was a week behind in when I thought it was done. I'm about to blitz through the rest of the lists. Man, it was probably a bad idea for me to participate if only because this has been the busiest summer of my life what with buying a house, going on an extended vacation, having lots of family in town, some of them staying with us for awhile, and my band working on its EP amid that. But I'll get this done by the end of the weekend for sure.

 

[namkcuR]

IWasBored:

I'm sorry man, but most of this list just wasn't my thing. The list is actually good in terms of cohesiveness and sounding like it could be one album, it's just that unfortunately most of that sound isn't really my cup of tea.

That said, there were a small handful of tracks that I did enjoy - the Barenaked Ladies track, and I actually really like the last four tracks, from Mark Lind to NIN; all of those last four except for The National were new to me(even I though I've listened to a lot of The Who and a fair amount of NIN), and I enjoyed them all. So, despite a lot of the list not being my cup of tea, it did introduce me to one new artist that I might look into more(Lind) and some deeper cuts from well-known artists(The Who and NIN), so Kudos for that.

Good effort.

 

[namkcuR]

Djerdap:

What a unique list - going in, I didn't know a single artist other than Sigur Ros.

The first disc was perhaps the heaviest portion of any list I've listened to so far in this DI, and I liked it. In particular, the opener 'Sam u Vodi' was really dark and heavy and exciting to listen to, and I also really enjoyed Noir Desir track a lot. I knew the Sigur Ros track but hadn't listened to it in a long while, so thanks for reminding me how much I love the "()" record.

The second disc was less heavy and more eclectic, and to be honest, it was overall less to my liking than the first disc. I'll say, however, that I really liked the Nebu track, the electronic parts especially, which sounded like video game music from 1991, so if their other stuff is anything like that, maybe I'll have to investigate them further. The Narko track was also pleasant, and the chorus melody of the Azra track sounds really familiar, but I can't put my finger on it.

Really good effort, and I think you'll get a pretty good ranking from me just based on the first disc+Nebu alone.

 

[djerdap]

Thanks a lot for the comments! I actually also prefer the first disc. Sam u vodi (it means "Alone in the Water" in Croatian) is one of my favourite songs in general. Glad you're a fan of Nebo (which means "Sky") too.

 

[IWasBored]

IWasBored:

I'm sorry man, but most of this list just wasn't my thing. The list is actually good in terms of cohesiveness and sounding like it could be one album, it's just that unfortunately most of that sound isn't really my cup of tea.

That said, there were a small handful of tracks that I did enjoy - the Barenaked Ladies track, and I actually really like the last four tracks, from Mark Lind to NIN; all of those last four except for The National were new to me(even I though I've listened to a lot of The Who and a fair amount of NIN), and I enjoyed them all. So, despite a lot of the list not being my cup of tea, it did introduce me to one new artist that I might look into more(Lind) and some deeper cuts from well-known artists(The Who and NIN), so Kudos for that.

Good effort.

Coincidence that I listened to your list today, too, before I even saw this post. First off, thanks for the kind words on the flow and cohesiveness. Musically, I'm going to be quite surprised if anyone likes this thing--I've been saying that from day one, but yet it doesn't seem to stop me from making these types of playlists. For The Who, I went with Pete Townshend at his truly whiniest (I still love that song, but the lyrics are pretty emo), and then two of the other well-known bands (BNL and NIN) aren't exactly favorites of most folks here. So it almost looks like i was just trying to get people to say "literally the only song here that doesn't suck is The National." But if got you interested in hearing more of Mark Lind's stuff, then cool.


Speaking of certain songs not being exactly one's cup of tea, I mentioned I listened to your playlist. I started on the Bill Withers track, because there was no way I'd ever be able to sit through 8 disco songs. Kind of like LM's list, the rest of it plays out like a classic rock station I probably would leave on if I was driving around, but wouldn't go out of my way to hear otherwise. Most interesting was using Factory for a Springsteen song. Always a fan of deeper cuts. Most unpleasant was following Love Reign O'er Me with Aerosmith. I don't know what song would work well to follow it, and even good songs would tend to resemble giant shit sandwich after following that kind of greatness. But man do I hate Aerosmith. I did overall enjoy from Neil Young onward, though. Minus that one, and finishing before yes and genesis. Points for the George Harrison song, I've apparently got some sort of vague memories attached to that song, although I'm not entirely sure what they are, they're good ones, so I generally tend to be a big fan of hearing that song. There are probably more songs on your list that I knew than anyone else's. and then there's Garageland, which without, The Clash may never have become one of my favorite bands.

 

[nielsgov]

IWB: I agree almost completely with namkcuR. Not my cup of tea but I can see it being a good playlist if you're into that kind of music because it flowed really well.

The final three tracks were very good.

 

[namkcuR]

Sad Punk:

I really dug your list.

The first section, the first four tracks, kind of blew me away. I hadn't ever heard these artists before, but I loved all four of them. The kind of Eastern-sounding Bonobo track was really pleasant, the Toro y Moi track was kind of funky, but then, Max Tundra and Anamanaguchi...wow. That Tundra track is like electronica meets neo-soul, and it's really, really good, and Anamanaguchi just blew my mind...I mean, it's 8-bit video game music. But better. Makes me feel like I'm eight years old again. Man. I'm checking both of them out further for sure. Neon Indian was cool too.

Moving on, up next was a couple of hip-hop tracks that didn't do much for me. But then another strong section, some bluesy stuff - I wasn't familiar with Womack or Girls but I loved both of those tracks, and will be investigating them further. Zeppelin is of course Zeppelin and Ten Years Gone is arguably one of their grooviest tracks. Legendary. The National is always pleasant, and Gil Scott-Heron is another artist I was unfamiliar with that I think I'll be looking into some more after hearing that track. Finally, an excellent Tame Impala selection from one of the more dreamy records of recent years.

Next, another hip-hop section which didn't really do much for me; it's not that I don't like any hip-hop, just that I'm kind of picky about my hip-hop. I will say that I liked the Robert Glasper track, and if that was him doing the singing, his voice reminds me a lot of Stevie Wonder, which is never a bad thing in my book. Also, the Burial track in the middle of the hip-hop was interesting as well.

The last section contained some new gems for me, namely the Cut Copy's 'Strangers In The Wind', the Flaming Lips'(a band for whom I'm familiar with a couple of albums but should be familiar with more) 'Evil', Phosphorescent's 'The Quotidian Beast'(what a haunting piece of music), and The War On Drugs' 'Brothers'. And of course Bowie is a legend and 'Heroes' is one of his most legendary works, and its inclusion is never a bad thing.

Really good list. Is up there with any DI list I've ever heard in terms of new discoveries that really excite me.

 

[the tourist]

Then what should the time limit be. 80? 100? 120?

I've been one of the biggest detractors for shortening the max length, but I think probably 120 minutes would be alright. 2 hours instead of 2 discs.

 

[the tourist]

What the fuck did iTunes just shit into my computer, djerdap? I mean, come on. At least attempt to make it easy. Half the songs don't even have the artist or album labelled?

Not gonna hold this against anyone this time, but in the future, any DI's that I take part in, if your list doesn't come up in order on iTunes, I'm gonna listen to it in whatever order it is added from the folder to the computer. This is like 6 of the lists like this out of order when some of the people who hadn't competed before got it right their first time!

/rant

 

[djerdap]

Most of the bands in my list are not on iTunes. I never use it anyway; if you put it in Winamp or any other media player, the names of bands and songs are there.

 

[IWasBored]

What the fuck did iTunes just shit into my computer, djerdap? I mean, come on. At least attempt to make it easy. Half the songs don't even have the artist or album labelled?

Not gonna hold this against anyone this time, but in the future, any DI's that I take part in, if your list doesn't come up in order on iTunes, I'm gonna listen to it in whatever order it is added from the folder to the computer. This is like 6 of the lists like this out of order when some of the people who hadn't competed before got it right their first time!

/rant

Ironically, djerdap's list came up in order when I loaded it into iTunes (not well labeled, but unless he has some Russian sings in there, I won't be able to read any of them anyway), and yours did not. Disordered playlists are the main reason this has taken me so long to get through, rather than lengths. It's a huge pain in the ass. I tried to make sure mine would load in order, although I'm not 100% it did.

 

[nielsgov]

It's not that hard to put them in a playlist and just drag each song in the right place. Takes about five minutes max. Though it's still a lot easier when it goes automatically. djerdap's list was in order on my iTunes as well.

 

[nielsgov]

Just finished The Sad Punk's list. I liked it a lot. Like LMP's playlist it was very eclectic but it worked. I liked nearly every song and loved a few too. The Chromatics track was the only one I didn't enjoy, it went on for too long. Other than that, it was fantastic.

The flow was good in general. The transition between Neon Indian and El-P was sudden though, even with the fade-out. The first hip-hop section was my favorite sretch. Especially The Full Retard and Reagan. Great duo with a great transition between them. Die and This is The Last Time were familiar highlight. I'm also going to check out more of Bobby Womack, Gil Scott-Heron, El-P, Neon Indian and Phosphorescent (who's two for two with Song for Zula and this track). The final three songs formed a great ending. Brothers is one of my favorite songs of the past five years so I'm glad you included it.

This playlist will end up high on my ranking, which I'm going to start making now. Man, that's going to be difficult.

 

[the tourist]

Ironically, djerdap's list came up in order when I loaded it into iTunes (not well labeled, but unless he has some Russian sings in there, I won't be able to read any of them anyway), and yours did not. Disordered playlists are the main reason this has taken me so long to get through, rather than lengths. It's a huge pain in the ass. I tried to make sure mine would load in order, although I'm not 100% it did.

Well pretty much nothing ever imports in order. That's why I tag everything. So you can just put it into a playlist and then sort by album. Takes about a second.

ETA: Just tried it, it took me 6 seconds. I stand corrected.

It's not that hard to put them in a playlist and just drag each song in the right place. Takes about five minutes max. Though it's still a lot easier when it goes automatically. djerdap's list was in order on my iTunes as well.

Not when you have to figure out which song is which literally by the lengths of the songs. Took ten minutes. When we're talking close to twenty lists and multiple needing this work, we're talking a lot more than five minutes because the uploader of the playlists were lazy.

 

[djerdap]

Again - I don't use iTunes, the songs are labeled and numbered and if you put them in any kind of media player, they will play as they should. These are rare songs I've picked and it took me quite a bit of time to collect them all, so before you call other uploaders lazy, take note that some people have had the same problems you're complaining about with your playlist.

 

[the tourist]

Just finished up LMP's list.

Well that was a lot of genre! The flow got a little wacky in parts and some of the transitions suffered from modern mastering vs. original cd release mastering, but the songs are the most important part anyway and there were quite a few fantastic selections here. Some of the things I need to check out that I hadn't before would be Best Coast, TV Girl, Daft Punk, and Guided By Voices. No idea how I don't know more Guided By Voices as the singer in my last band was obsessed with them. Stuff I knew already that were highlights would be the stuff by Sleigh Bells, Weezer, Kanye, Washed Out, The Crystals, and The National. Great to hear the Kanye on your list as Flashing Lights from one of your previous lists was the song that got me into him in the first place. And isn't that the whole point of this thing? Anyway, least favorite parts were the punk and local sounding lofi stuff near the beginning and I could have left behind Hunx and His Punx to Bowie. Probably sacrilege how many of the big names that most U2 fans on here like that I don't (David Bowie, Bruce Springsteen, REM, Talking Heads, Bjork, etc.), which seem to pop up all over the place in these lists. Ah well.

Pretty strong list even if I didn't get along with some of it!