Coldplay - Viva La Vida - ongoing discussion

[LemonMelon]

You're comparing Bono's best lines over the last 30 years to Chris's attempts over about 8 years? Gimme a break!

Bono came up with some pretty damn cool lines in his first 8 years. What's Martin's best? Viva's title track? Give me a break.

 

[LMP]

Difference: Chris Martin never wrote lyrics like following to make his worst lyrical moments forgivable...

"time is a train/makes the future the past/leaves you standing in the station/your face pressed up against the glass"

"in my dreams/I was drowning my sorrows/but my sorrows they learned to swim/surrounding me/going down on me/spilling over the brim"

"between the horses of love and lust/we are trampled underfoot"

"every artist is a cannibal/every poet is a thief/all kill their inspiration/and sing about their grief"

"a man will rise/a man will fall/from the sheer face of love/like a fly from a wall"

"and you can dream/so dream out loud/you know that your time is coming round/so don't let the bastards grind you down"

"and if you look/you look through me/and when you talk/it's not to me/and when I touch you/you don't feel a thing"

"they want you to be jesus/they'll get down on on knee/but they'll want their money back/if you're alive at thirty-three"

"Intransigence is all around/military still in town/armor-plated suits and ties/daddy just won't say goodbye/referee won't blow the whistle/god is good but will he listen/I'm nearly great but there's something missing/I left it in the duty free/it never really/belonged to me"

"you hurt youself/you hurt your lover/then you discover/what you thought was freedom was just greed"

"september/streets capsizing/spilling over down the drain/shards of glass/splinters like rain/but you could only feel your own pain/october, talks getting nowhere/november, december/remember, we just started again"

"so love is hard and love is tough/but love is not what you're thinking of/so love is bigger/bigger than us/but love is not what you're thinking of/it's what lovers deal/it's what lovers steal/you know I've found it hard to recieve/'cause you, my love, I could never believe"

"there's a kite blowin' out of control on a breeze/I wonder what's gonna happen to you/you wonder what has happened to me"

"a man dreams one day to fly/a man takes a rocket ship into the sky/he lives on a star that's dying in the night/he follows in the trail, the scatter of light"

"when the night is someone else's/and you're trying to get some sleep/when your thoughts are too expensive/to ever want to keep"

just to name a few.

That helps.

 

[Screwtape2]

Difference: Chris Martin never wrote lyrics like following to make his worst lyrical moments forgivable...

"time is a train/makes the future the past/leaves you standing in the station/your face pressed up against the glass"

"in my dreams/I was drowning my sorrows/but my sorrows they learned to swim/surrounding me/going down on me/spilling over the brim"

"between the horses of love and lust/we are trampled underfoot"

"every artist is a cannibal/every poet is a thief/all kill their inspiration/and sing about their grief"

"a man will rise/a man will fall/from the sheer face of love/like a fly from a wall"

"and you can dream/so dream out loud/you know that your time is coming round/so don't let the bastards grind you down"

"and if you look/you look through me/and when you talk/it's not to me/and when I touch you/you don't feel a thing"

"they want you to be jesus/they'll get down on on knee/but they'll want their money back/if you're alive at thirty-three"

"Intransigence is all around/military still in town/armor-plated suits and ties/daddy just won't say goodbye/referee won't blow the whistle/god is good but will he listen/I'm nearly great but there's something missing/I left it in the duty free/it never really/belonged to me"

"you hurt youself/you hurt your lover/then you discover/what you thought was freedom was just greed"

"september/streets capsizing/spilling over down the drain/shards of glass/splinters like rain/but you could only feel your own pain/october, talks getting nowhere/november, december/remember, we just started again"

"so love is hard and love is tough/but love is not what you're thinking of/so love is bigger/bigger than us/but love is not what you're thinking of/it's what lovers deal/it's what lovers steal/you know I've found it hard to recieve/'cause you, my love, I could never believe"

"there's a kite blowin' out of control on a breeze/I wonder what's gonna happen to you/you wonder what has happened to me"

"a man dreams one day to fly/a man takes a rocket ship into the sky/he lives on a star that's dying in the night/he follows in the trail, the scatter of light"

"when the night is someone else's/and you're trying to get some sleep/when your thoughts are too expensive/to ever want to keep"

just to name a few.

I'm sorry but I have to same half those lyrics aren't that good.

 

[lazarus]

"so love is hard and love is tough/but love is not what you're thinking of/so love is bigger/bigger than us/but love is not what you're thinking of/it's what lovers deal/it's what lovers steal/you know I've found it hard to recieve/'cause you, my love, I could never believe"

"when the night is someone else's/and you're trying to get some sleep/when your thoughts are too expensive/to ever want to keep"

Out of context, these aren't very good.

And WILATW has way better lines.

"I'm in the waiting room
I can't see for the smoke
I think of you and your holy book
When the rest of us choke"

FTW.

 

[Sicy]

Where's my damn train wreck smilie.

 

[GibsonGirl]

Difference: Chris Martin never wrote lyrics like following to make his worst lyrical moments forgivable...

[lyrics]

just to name a few.

Every song you just quoted there was written between 1990-2000. Bono had several years and albums-worth of practice by that point, so one would hope the lyrics would be good.

 

[Zoots]

Bono came up with some pretty damn cool lines in his first 8 years. What's Martin's best? Viva's title track? Give me a break.

Okay you got me there but I don't agree that it's easy to forgive Bono's worst lines just cos he wrote several gems! A cringeworthy lyric is a cringeworthy lyric.

 

[Screwtape2]

And WILATW has way better lines.

"I'm in the waiting room
I can't see for the smoke
I think of you and your holy book
When the rest of us choke"

FTW.

I like that lyric too.

 

[namkcuR]

Out of context, these aren't very good.

And WILATW has way better lines.

"I'm in the waiting room
I can't see for the smoke
I think of you and your holy book
When the rest of us choke"

FTW.

Now don't get me wrong, I love that one, but I think you're discounting the one I put....thoughts too expensive to ever want to keep...come on, everyone's had that moment, lying in bed at night thinking things you wish you weren't thinking. I think it's a great lyric.

 

[Zoots]

Where's my damn train wreck smilie.

Oh no you're not locking this thread yet! It's still too much fun!

 

[GibsonGirl]

And your position was, what, exactly? Didn't you post charts and graphs musically PROVING that the songs had nothing in common, and became flustered when people didn't give a shit about the math, and still thought they sounded similar?

I stand by what I said. Musically speaking, the songs simply don't match up. There are vague similarities - a synth fade in plus uplifting chord phrasings - but not enough to pass it off as a rip off.

 

[VintagePunk]

And of course, the difference is also that Bono usually manages to sell even his worst or trite lyrics. I think the end of Kite is a bit sloppily written, but it's such a great distillation of his look back, and he does it very wistfully.

Bono's vocal presentation of his lyrics is what makes him so great, not the words themselves.

I agree with the wistfulness of that line. It's apparent in the delivery, as if he's putting a cultural time stamp on when the feelings/events of the song were brought forth for him. I like it, although I do agree that if someone were simply reading it, it would seem awkward and as out of place as hell.

I've also always taken the voice/tortoise line as sort of tongue-in-cheek, so that doesn't bother me, either.

I do agree with whoever made the statement about "heavy as a truck," though. Awkward. I initially thought he was saying "heavy as a church," and I totally got that, sometimes churches can seem oppressive, and it fit well within the context of the song. I like mine better, dammit.

 

[Popmartijn]

Where's my damn train wreck smilie.

We already ran over that one. It's too late now. We're on course for a collision with the universe.

 

[lazarus]

There is no writer that doesn't have his share of crap. I could show you filler on Dylan albums that you'd never think he'd put to tape.

Back to what I said, you either have to have a good lyric or a great read of a bad one, and Bono usually manages to cover his ass in the singing department. I hate "I know it aches and your heart it breaks" in Walk On, but I still love the song because how he drives the purity of the line with his passion.

Martin, on the other hand, doesn't have the great lyric to bad lyric ratio that Bono does, and couldn't sell a sugar cube to a fucking horse.

 

[LemonMelon]

Okay you got me there but I don't agree that it's easy to forgive Bono's worst lines just cos he wrote several gems! A cringeworthy lyric is a cringeworthy lyric.

Yeah, but, again, you're comparing Bono, who HAS written some truly genius lyrics, to a guy whose best has been palatable or, worse yet, suitable for the music. It's all about writing the classics.

 

[Zoots]

Heavy as a drug FTW!

 

[Zoots]

Let's all give Coldplay a break! They're getting better and better with every album!


I tried. lol.

 

[lazarus]

I stand by what I said. Musically speaking, the songs simply don't match up. There are vague similarities - a synth fade in plus uplifting chord phrasings - but not enough to pass it off as a rip off.

So WHAT about "musically speaking"?! Most people aren't musicians. If it conjures up the feeling where the listener thinks "damn, this reminds me of Streets", then it doesn't matter! Rip-off, appropriation, homage, whatever you want to call it, it's sloppy and unoriginal, ESPECIALLY when you've already been accused of aping the band in question!

I do agree with whoever made the statement about "heavy as a truck," though. Awkward. I initially thought he was saying "heavy as a church," and I totally got that, sometimes churches can seem oppressive, and it fit well within the context of the song. I like mine better, dammit.

Can we not talk about Electrical Storm, please? It makes my head hurt.

They should have given that one to Coldplay as a gift.

 

[VintagePunk]

Heavy as a drug FTW!

lol, anything but truck!

 

[GibsonGirl]

So WHAT about "musically speaking"?! Most people aren't musicians. If it conjures up the feeling where the listener thinks "damn, this reminds me of Streets", then it doesn't matter! Rip-off, appropriation, homage, whatever you want to call it, it's sloppy and unoriginal, ESPECIALLY when you've already been accused of aping the band in question!

Holy shit, Lazarus, are you always this angry?

"Rip-off" is a strong phrase if you're a musician. Unless large portions of the music/vocal delivery are plagiarised, you CANNOT use that term. Was Life In Technicolor inspired by Streets? Probably. Is it a rip-off of Streets? Not at all.

 

[namkcuR]

Ok, I take the point about posting lyrics that were further along in Bono's career than Martin is in his. Setting 2000 as Coldplay's startpoint, Martin is in his ninth year.

Setting 1980 as Bono's startpoint, 1988 was his ninth year. In 1988, All I Want Is You was released. Martin has yet to release anything even close to as lyrically substantial as that.

"you say you'll give me/eyes in a moon of blindness/a river in a time of dryness/a harbour in the tempest/but all the promises we make/from the cradle to the grave/when all I want is you"

Just thought I'd say that.

 

[Screwtape2]

So WHAT about "musically speaking"?! Most people aren't musicians. If it conjures up the feeling where the listener thinks "damn, this reminds me of Streets", then it doesn't matter! Rip-off, appropriation, homage, whatever you want to call it, it's sloppy and unoriginal, ESPECIALLY when you've already been accused of aping the band in question!

This struck me as funny because a U2 example comes to mind. HMTMKMKM sounds an awful lot like David Bowie's Panic In Detriot. Bono and the band idolized and wanted to sound like Bowie. I'm just saying.

 

[Sicy]

Oh no you're not locking this thread yet! It's still too much fun!

I didn't say I was locking it. I'd actually rather have it all in one thread vs. various threads scattered throughout EYKIW.

And as long as everyone is debating in a respectable manner, enjoy your fun.

 

[Zoots]

Ok, I take the point about posting lyrics that were further along in Bono's career than Martin is in his. Setting 2000 as Coldplay's startpoint, Martin is in his ninth year.

Setting 1980 as Bono's startpoint, 1988 was his ninth year. In 1988, All I Want Is You was released. Martin has yet to release anything even close to as lyrically substantial as that.

"you say you'll give me/eyes in a moon of blindness/a river in a time of dryness/a harbour in the tempest/but all the promises we make/from the cradle to the grave/when all I want is you"

Just thought I'd say that.

Agreed! Boy thru R&H is good enough to be a band's entire discography IMO!

 

[Zoots]

And let's face it, guys... Coldplay's strength is in melodies, not lyrics!

 

[LemonMelon]

Honestly, the Chris Martin/Bono comparisons are absolutely ridiculous, and this conversation really should be put to rest.

You say that Chrissy has only been writing for 8 years (11, actually, since Coldplay was formed in 1997), and that he should be given time to develop. Fair enough. If we're comparing the two, however, it's also fair to only use Bono's first 8 years of work, 1980-1987 as the only example. Unfortunately for Chrissy, in those 8 years, Bono wrote:

• I Will Follow
• Rejoice
• Tomorrow
• Sunday Bloody Sunday
• New Year's Day
• A Sort Of Homecoming
• Pride (In The Name Of Love)
• Bad
• Where The Streets Have No Name
• I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For
• With Or Without You
• Running To Stand Still
• One Tree Hill

What the fuck has Chris Martin done that even comes close to matching that in his first 8 years? Furthermore, what has Chris Martin done that even matches a modern classic like Beautiful Day, a song supposedly written after Bono's peak as a lyricist? Come on. He's not that good. Don't compare the two.

 

[lazarus]

Holy shit, Lazarus, are you always this angry?

"Rip-off" is a strong phrase if you're a musician. Unless large portions of the music/vocal delivery are plagiarised, you CANNOT use that term. Was Life In Technicolor inspired by Streets? Probably. Is it a rip-off of Streets? Not at all.

This isn't a legal proceeding. They aren't being sued. It's just lame to be considered a U2-lite, then you hire their frequent collaborator and open your album with a track that brings STRONG recollections of another famous Track 1.

Call it what you want. C-Play aren't very original, so to me they've made a career of ripping them off, in one way or another.

 

[namkcuR]

This struck me as funny because a U2 example comes to mind. HMTMKMKM sounds an awful lot like David Bowie's Panic In Detriot. Bono and the band idolized and wanted to sound like Bowie. I'm just saying.

I don't hear that. I mean, there's a slight resemblance in the riff in PID's chorus, and I suppose they're somewhat stylistically similar, but I don't see where they sound 'an awful lot' alike.

 

[angelordevil]

Jesus, you people are boring! Why do you put so much energy into something you hate?

Jesus, you people are boring! Why do you put so much energy into something you hate?

Jesus, you people are boring! Why do you put so much energy into something you hate?

lazarus, why do you insist on posting so many reviews for ammunition? Unlike you, GG never relies on the words of others to validate her opinions.

I feel like I'm exceeding my carbon footprint by adding anything else, but here goes! This album is like a sandwich from a store I was never really fond of before. Only this time, they’ve added a few new things to finally make a sandwich that's worth eating. There are ingredients that are found in other things I like: A bit of Arcade Fire meat, Bunnymen mustard, early U2 atmospheric sesame seeds. The overall impression is that it's tasty, and that it's at least a sincere, heartfelt effort to create something good. I appreciate that. The sandwich maker will probably never have his/her own cooking show, or crack the Sandwich Hall of Fame. We both know this, but it's okay.

Liking said sandwich, and the way it goes down, is a personal choice.

If you stand in front of the sandwich display, and mumble about why you don’t like the one I just bought, I’ll probably think that you need some help.

 

[Screwtape2]

Okay Bono is a better lyricist than Chris Martin. Chris Martin isn't the best lyricist when you compare him to Bono. But keep in mind that when comparing Bono to other lyricists he is sort of the Chris Martin of the group.

He isn't in the same ballpark as Kate Bush, Roger Waters, Sting, Tori Amos, Peter Gabriel and the list goes on and on.