Coldplay - Viva La Vida - ongoing discussion

[lazarus]

It's not the same thing. Saying your record is 'punk rock from venus' or any of those hyperbolic things Bono says, is not the same as saying that you deliberately tried to make your album sound like another band's album.

And Bono always talks about a confluence, never something like "ATYCLB is our Abbey Road" or some such bullshit.

 

[LemonMelon]

From what I've read about their start, you're quite correct. When Coldplay were signed to their label, the label figured they'd sell about 50,000 copies of their debut and that the band would grow slowly but steadily with their next few albums. I mean, mid-tempo piano songs weren't the big thing in 1999/2000.
Instead, Coldplay sold about 5 million copies of Parachutes worldwide.

And now there are several bands around heavily influenced by Coldplay (Keane and what's that other band that earlier this year made a virtual Coldplay sound-a-like single? I believe they were called Melee or something like that).

Yep, success fell right into their lap. They didn't have to chase after it. I don't think they've necessarily rested on their laurels either. I just don't think they're all that versatile of a band.

 

[LemonMelon]

When you guys blast Chrissy for his lyrics, just think about this: you're all on a forum dedicated to the band whose chief songwriter managed to make "voice" rhyme with "tortoise."

Not a good argument. Bono has 2 or 3 albums where he hasn't been awesome. Chrissy has........all of his albums.

 

[phanan]

One is theatricality. COMPLETELY over the top. Martin wearing his version of nail polish is just...cheesy.

If you say so.

 

[LMP]

When you guys blast Chrissy for his lyrics, just think about this: you're all on a forum dedicated to the band whose chief songwriter managed to make "voice" rhyme with "tortoise."

This is incredibly true.

But, one's on a lame rock song while "writing a song a hundred miles long" is on what's supposed to be a heartfelt ballad. The "heavy as a truck" line in "Electrical Storm" is far more egregious, that's for sure.

Why I feel the need to argue with everyone today, I just don't know.

 

[LMP]

Double post.

 

[Popmartijn]

The proof is in the pudding! If he's got demons, it's certainly not present in the tone of the music or the lyrics.

Define demons and how it should be present in music.
Chris Martin certainly has his insecurities he's writing about. In fact, it's a recurring theme in his lyrics. The review of Viva La Vida in Q magazine said it quite aptly: The gist of most Coldplay songs - "Oh no!" followed by "Chin up!" - is write large across Viva La Vida...

Not everyone is like Thom "Woe me I'm successful!" Yorke and his non-sensical gibberish.

 

[LemonMelon]

Reason: Love is a powerful emotion.

 

[GibsonGirl]

Not a good argument. Bono has 2 or 3 albums where he hasn't been awesome. Chrissy has........all of his albums.

The difference, though, is that Chrissy is improving whereas Bono is rapidly declining. Also, Bono's lyrical talent only really began to shine through with parts of UF / the majority of JT.

 

[lazarus]

Another review:

Washington Times - Coldplay homage to U2

Check the opening. Gibson Girl gotta write a letter to the editor so people keep making these crazy Streets comparisons!

 

[Screwtape2]

This is incredibly true.

But, one's on a lame rock song while "writing a song a hundred miles long" is on what's supposed to be a heartfelt ballad. The "heavy as a truck" line in "Electrical Storm" is far more egregious, that's for sure.

Why I feel the need to argue with everyone today, I just don't know.

I also want to mention the "When hip-hop drove the big cars, in the time of new media, it was the big idea" part from Kite.

I want to say that Bono's best is light years better than Martin but Martin's worst is better than Bono's worst.

 

[LMP]

The difference, though, is that Chrissy is improving whereas Bono is rapidly declining. Also, Bono's lyrical talent only really began to shine through with parts of UF / the majority of JT.

October's a fairly big achievement, too, since he made up most of those lyrics on the spot, apparently.

 

[lazarus]

The difference, though, is that Chrissy is improving whereas Bono is rapidly declining. Also, Bono's lyrical talent only really began to shine through with parts of UF / the majority of JT.

Bono also was around for almost 20 years before that decline.

We'll see where Martin is at that point--hopefully no longer polluting the airwaves.

 

[LMP]

I also want to mention the "When hip-hop drove the big cars, in the time of new media, it was the big idea" part from Kite.

I want to say that Bono's best is light years better than Martin but Martin's worst is better than Bono's worst.

I hate that line from "Kite" as well, but the rest is so damn good.

Bono's best > Chrissy's best
Bono's worst > Chrissy's worst

That doesn't mean either of them haven't had their share of accomplishments, which Bono clearly wins, but that's not even worth comparing, and shit between the both of them.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

I want to say that Bono's best is light years better than Martin but Martin's worst is better than Bono's worst.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe.

 

[GibsonGirl]

Another review:

Washington Times - Coldplay homage to U2

Check the opening. Gibson Girl gotta write a letter to the editor so people keep making these crazy Streets comparisons!

"It's no accident that this unmistakable rhythm and sound [of WTSHNN] permeates Coldplay's fourth studio album."



Interestingly, the author of that article doesn't compare Streets to Life In Technicolor (which is the comparison that I originally contested.)

 

[phanan]

I want to say that Bono's best is light years better than Martin but Martin's worst is better than Bono's worst.

First part, yes. Second part, no.

 

[lazarus]

And of course, the difference is also that Bono usually manages to sell even his worst or trite lyrics. I think the end of Kite is a bit sloppily written, but it's such a great distillation of his look back, and he does it very wistfully.

Bono's vocal presentation of his lyrics is what makes him so great, not the words themselves.

 

[Screwtape2]

This doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe.

This is my reasoning: Bono's worst lines are hilariously bad but with Martin it usually is just a forced or bad rhyme. Some of Bono's lyrics are so bad it is embarrassing. I'd rather hear "I will try to fix you" than a lot of Bono's worst.

 

[lazarus]

Interestingly, the author of that article doesn't compare Streets to Life In Technicolor (which is the comparison that I originally contested.)

He didn't name any songs, just the whole album.

But Rob Harvilla from the Village Voice make the direct comparison, as we noted pages ago.

Let me refresh your memory:

"And indeed, the record's first two and a half minutes—a throwaway intro called "Life in Technicolor"—are genuinely thrilling, a brief (and lyric-less!) master class in the tricks, the sounds, the repetition, the bigness that aided Coldplay's rise to power. Eno's sweetly pastoral synth landscape sets the tone, and soon it all piles on: the jangly electric-guitar riff, the cheerful acoustic to sketch out the simple chords, the rumbling bass and drums to give those chords muscle and propulsion, the ecstatically clanging piano, a few joyful oh-oh-oh's from Martin just to remind us who's in charge here—a steady and true and exhilarating 150-second rise in volume and intensity that's pure "Where the Streets Have No Name," and if it doesn 't quite blossom into a full, magnificent anthem the way "Streets" did, the point is made. But part of that point is that this is Coldplay's instinct—go for the gold, the jugular, the fist-pumping knockout—and most of the rest of Vida aims to subvert it."

 

[Zoots]

I think that song's great due more to the music than the lyrics/delivery, as is the case with most of their material, but that's just me. One of their better songs though.

I agree completely about Politik! The music is really Coldplay's strong side!

I also agree that overall, I like (note: not love) Coldplay, they're decent. They just need to find their own groove, which, IMO, they were closest to with ROBTTH.

And that mid tempo piano ballad style is theirs! (Warning Sign ) I don't think any mainstream band before them had the same style. So I think they have already found their groove but now they seem to have changed it up again and gone after Arcade Fire.

 

[LemonMelon]

The difference, though, is that Chrissy is improving whereas Bono is rapidly declining. Also, Bono's lyrical talent only really began to shine through with parts of UF / the majority of JT.

 

[LMP]

First thing I thought of:

"Sir Ian, Sir Ian, Sir Ian. Action! WIZARD, YOU SHALL NOT PASS! Cut. Sir Ian, Sir Ian, Sir Ian..."

 

[GibsonGirl]

He didn't name any songs, just the whole album.

But Rob Harvilla from the Village Voice make the direct comparison, as we noted pages ago.

Let me refresh your memory:

"And indeed, the record's first two and a half minutes—a throwaway intro called "Life in Technicolor"—are genuinely thrilling, a brief (and lyric-less!) master class in the tricks, the sounds, the repetition, the bigness that aided Coldplay's rise to power. Eno's sweetly pastoral synth landscape sets the tone, and soon it all piles on: the jangly electric-guitar riff, the cheerful acoustic to sketch out the simple chords, the rumbling bass and drums to give those chords muscle and propulsion, the ecstatically clanging piano, a few joyful oh-oh-oh's from Martin just to remind us who's in charge here—a steady and true and exhilarating 150-second rise in volume and intensity that's pure "Where the Streets Have No Name," and if it doesn 't quite blossom into a full, magnificent anthem the way "Streets" did, the point is made. But part of that point is that this is Coldplay's instinct—go for the gold, the jugular, the fist-pumping knockout—and most of the rest of Vida aims to subvert it."

That's incredibly different to saying something like "OMG COLDPLAY RIPPED OFF U2! OMG! THE CHORD PROGRESSIONS ON LIFE IN TECHNICOLOR ARE THE SAME AS STREETS!" ala Rob33.

Jesus, you people are boring! Why do you put so much energy into something you hate?

 

[lazarus]

And that mid tempo piano ballad style is theirs!

This...is why they FAIL.

 

[phillyfan26]

I have to leave for a bit, sadly. I would love to discuss more about how whack the Bono-Martin comparisons are.

 

[namkcuR]

When you guys blast Chrissy for his lyrics, just think about this: you're all on a forum dedicated to the band whose chief songwriter managed to make "voice" rhyme with "tortoise."

Difference: Chris Martin never wrote lyrics like following to make his worst lyrical moments forgivable...

"time is a train/makes the future the past/leaves you standing in the station/your face pressed up against the glass"

"in my dreams/I was drowning my sorrows/but my sorrows they learned to swim/surrounding me/going down on me/spilling over the brim"

"between the horses of love and lust/we are trampled underfoot"

"every artist is a cannibal/every poet is a thief/all kill their inspiration/and sing about their grief"

"a man will rise/a man will fall/from the sheer face of love/like a fly from a wall"

"and you can dream/so dream out loud/you know that your time is coming round/so don't let the bastards grind you down"

"and if you look/you look through me/and when you talk/it's not to me/and when I touch you/you don't feel a thing"

"they want you to be jesus/they'll get down on on knee/but they'll want their money back/if you're alive at thirty-three"

"Intransigence is all around/military still in town/armor-plated suits and ties/daddy just won't say goodbye/referee won't blow the whistle/god is good but will he listen/I'm nearly great but there's something missing/I left it in the duty free/it never really/belonged to me"

"you hurt youself/you hurt your lover/then you discover/what you thought was freedom was just greed"

"september/streets capsizing/spilling over down the drain/shards of glass/splinters like rain/but you could only feel your own pain/october, talks getting nowhere/november, december/remember, we just started again"

"so love is hard and love is tough/but love is not what you're thinking of/so love is bigger/bigger than us/but love is not what you're thinking of/it's what lovers deal/it's what lovers steal/you know I've found it hard to recieve/'cause you, my love, I could never believe"

"there's a kite blowin' out of control on a breeze/I wonder what's gonna happen to you/you wonder what has happened to me"

"a man dreams one day to fly/a man takes a rocket ship into the sky/he lives on a star that's dying in the night/he follows in the trail, the scatter of light"

"when the night is someone else's/and you're trying to get some sleep/when your thoughts are too expensive/to ever want to keep"

just to name a few.

 

[Zoots]

El Mel


Bono's worst lyrics are pretty fucking bad I have to agree with Screwy there.

 

[lazarus]

That's incredibly different to saying something like "OMG COLDPLAY RIPPED OFF U2! OMG! THE CHORD PROGRESSIONS ON LIFE IN TECHNICOLOR ARE THE SAME AS STREETS!" ala Rob33.

And your position was, what, exactly? Didn't you post charts and graphs musically PROVING that the songs had nothing in common, and became flustered when people didn't give a shit about the math, and still thought they sounded similar?

 

[Zoots]

Difference: Chris Martin never wrote lyrics like following to make his worst lyrical moments forgivable...

You're comparing Bono's best lines over the last 30 years to Chris's attempts over about 8 years? Gimme a break!