Coldplay - Viva La Vida - ongoing discussion

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LemonMacPhisto said:
To me, Coldplay sounds like a watered down mix of U2, Radiohead, R.E.M., George Harrison/latter Beatles, and now Brian Eno and Bowie/Eno stuff. The problem is, they can't make the pieces fit together well enough. Let's step into a film comparison here: P.T. Anderson's style is derivative of Martin Scorsese and Robert Altman, specifically, but you can still tell he injects enough of his own essence into his work, otherwise he's just a pure copycat. Like I said above, I'm glad you feel this way, Screwy, but don't expect everyone to agree with you. Enjoy them on your own terms.

I think ATYCLB is a response to their '90s period, and yes, it is more hits-oriented, but it marks a specific time in their lives. They're not the same guys they were in the '80s or '90s, trying to find their places in the world. They are where they are now. The band itself is a family. That album is about finally finding your place in the world and having to deal with that. Plus, it's ties to 9/11 give it an extra layer of pathos on top of the previous areas of awesome. Is it a perfect album? No. But to say it's just the band on autopilot is ill-informed. You can subjectively dislike it, but there are enough qualities on that album that make it stand apart from the rest of their discography, in a good way.

Every band wants to make a connection with people, that's why they fucking make music. And U2 in particular wanted to let everyone know that they're back and ready to take the world by storm again.
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I don't expect anyone to agree with me because let's face it rarely anyone does. The thing I am saying is that it is so illogical to make these comparisons because they are nothing alike. I can't believe people don't see that.

Oh God not the 9/11 argument. They have nothing to do with each other. It is sick and stupid that people think the album was somehow made better by it. The album was meant to compete with Britney Spears and the like. That's not caring about art.

The old U2 is dead. They are not back who ever is here in their place just wants awards and your money.
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
That's cool. Of course it's up to interpretation, since none of us know for sure, so that makes perfect sense, too.

I think LM's right about that "eternal song" idea. They want to be like the Abbey Road/Let It Be-era Beatles and have that one song that will transcend everything to the same degree as "Hey Jude" or "Let It Be."
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Just to be clear, I never said anything regarding the "eternal song" - that was Screwtape. I actually agree that U2 is looking for a way to cement their legacy as they enter the latter phases of their existence. Here's hoping they find it.

LemonMacPhisto said:
But if you were in a band, would you rather focus on making the songs, or marketing it yourselves when you know there's a solid team that's been working with you for years and a label that would promote the hell out of it anyway?
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If I'm U2, with my spot in history firmly in place, I'm focusing more on making the songs, and finding that "eternal song", as LM put it. The marketing is secondary, although nobody is saying you don't do it at all. Just don't make it the primary focus when you are creating the song in the first place, a la Vertigo.
 
Screwtape2 said:
I don't expect anyone to agree with me because let's face it rarely anyone does. The thing I am saying is that it is so illogical to make these comparisons because they are nothing alike. I can't believe people don't see that.

Oh God not the 9/11 argument. They have nothing to do with each other. It is sick and stupid that people think the album was somehow made better by it. The album was meant to compete with Britney Spears and the like. That's not caring about art.

The old U2 is dead. They are not back who ever is here in their place just wants awards and your money.
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Great job deflecting my entire argument. Why I bothered, I don't even know, at least I had the courtesy to read yours and present some form of logical discussion, but like a child, you scurry away behind an obnoxious rhetoric that "no one can understand." Fuck it.

The 9/11 argument is incredibly fucking palpable. U2 was one of the first bands to go back on tour when the whole country was still reeling. Music is fucking powerful, I'm sure you know this, and this band did something amazing with it that can't be underestimated.
 
I hate to bring class into this again, but it's the privileged sensibility that bothers me the most. Married to a movie star, no noticeable personal struggle, no demons. Who gives a fuck what he has to say? How do they MATTER?
 
phanan said:
Just to be clear, I never said anything regarding the "eternal song" - that was Screwtape. I actually agree that U2 is looking for a way to cement their legacy as they enter the latter phases of their existence. Here's hoping they find it.
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Yeah, just read that. Sorry for confusing you with Screwtape, that must be scary.

If I'm U2, with my spot in history firmly in place, I'm focusing more on making the songs, and finding that "eternal song", as LM put it. The marketing is secondary, although nobody is saying you don't do it at all. Just don't make it the primary focus when you are creating the song in the first place, a la Vertigo.
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Okay, I see what you're saying here.
 
lazarus said:
I hate to bring class into this again, but it's the privileged sensibility that bothers me the most. Married to a movie star, no noticeable personal struggle, no demons. Who gives a fuck what he has to say? How do they MATTER?
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Don't talk about Bono like that!! I oughta- oh wait...

I love how U2 threads turn into Coldplay arguments and Coldplay threads turn into U2 arguments...

At least we're consitent.
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
Great job deflecting my entire argument. Why I bothered, I don't even know.

The 9/11 argument is incredibly fucking palpable. U2 was one of the first bands to go back on tour when the whole country was still reeling. Music is fucking powerful, I'm sure you know this, and this band did something amazing with it that can't be underestimated.
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I didn't deflect your argument. I addressed everything you said.

The album itself has nothing to do with 9/11. The band itself did though. What you are saying is something was added to the depth of ATYCLB because of 9/11 but honestly I think U2's older songs had a bigger effect.
 
Screwtape2 said:
:lol: How does Bono matter? What has he gone through?
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Are you kidding me? Growing up in Ireland, first of all. Having parents from denominations that are in conflict. Having his mother die when he was young. Having a volatile relationship with his father. Having all these things force him to question his faith and belief system.

None of these things alone are particularly unique, but when combined with his own spirit he's a bit of a powder keg. Or did you not notice that in 1997 he was STILL working out these issues, and probably is to this day?
 
Screwtape2 said:
I didn't deflect your argument. I addressed everything you said.

The album itself has nothing to do with 9/11. The band itself did though. What you are saying is something was added to the depth of ATYCLB because of 9/11 but honestly I think U2's older songs had a bigger effect.
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2-3 sentences to address 2-3 paragraphs. Yeah, that did it.

Yes, it was after the fact, but U2 and their album, including the songs within it, ironically, are tied to that event. Their other songs did have an effect, but you're telling me something like "Walk On," "Stuck in a Moment" (I like the acoustic version more), and "Beautiful Day" didn't have an effect on people?
 
phanan said:
So are you. It's called having our opinions.
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Not really. I never went out of my way to claim that Vertigo was written solely to improve sales, especially since there are quotes from the band to support otherwise.

Furthermore, X&Y as a whole wasn't put together simply to earn the band cash, and I never claimed it was. I don't believe that Coldplay is jaded enough for that. I think those are accusations that shouldn't be brought out unless the band in question admits that sales are their #1 priority, because it isn't really relevant otherwise.
 
lazarus said:
Are you kidding me? Growing up in Ireland, first of all. Having parents from denominations that are in conflict. Having his mother die when he was young. Having a volatile relationship with his father. Having all these things force him to question his faith and belief system.

None of these things alone are particularly unique, but when combined with his own spirit he's a bit of a powder keg. Or did you not notice that in 1997 he was STILL working out these issues, and probably is to this day?
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So because Bono went through that, he's God, and I'm just a middle-class loser who has nothing to offer society, along with other countless billions.

I'm glad we got that straight.
 
Chris Martin is among the blandest frontmen of any group that has had any major mainstream success over the last two decades. He has a boring personality, at least from afar, and he is vocally very bland. There is little to nothing interesting about his vocal style or ability. I honestly believe that if Coldplay had a frontman who had significantly more vocal talent and personality than Chris Martin, they'd be more respected here.
 
namkcuR said:
Chris Martin is among the blandest frontmen of any group that has had any major mainstream success over the last two decades. He has a boring personality, at least from afar, and he is vocally very bland. There is little to nothing interesting about his vocal style or ability. I honestly believe that if Coldplay had a frontman who had significantly more vocal talent and personality than Chris Martin, they'd be more respected here.
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The guy from Keane would be cool.
 
phanan said:
So because Bono went through that, he's God, and I'm just a middle-class loser who has nothing to offer society, along with other countless billions.

I'm glad we got that straight.
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Exactly. Seriously Laz. That is like saying Dido for example has less right to express herself than Fiona Apple or Tori Amos because he didn't have a rough life. She wasn't raped so her words don't matter. That is some twisted and scary logic but that is the logic you are following.
 
phanan said:
So because Bono went through that, he's God, and I'm just a middle-class loser who has nothing to offer society, along with other countless billions.

I'm glad we got that straight.
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No, but he takes his own personal experiences and combines them with his humanitarian beliefs, and winds up with a very powerful message. And combine that with his literary influences, which are legion.

Why do I even need to defend this? Do you know why you're on this forum?

Being middle-class doesn't make you a loser. Thom Yorke comes from the same background, but he isn't a ponce, and has a hell of a lot of creativity in what he's writing about. There's something very distinct and unique about his viewpoint. Where is the angle that Chris Martin is coming from? Being with a famous actress a few years into your career does not do wonders for the artistic mind.
 
Screwtape2 said:
Exactly. Seriously Laz. That is like saying Dido for example has less right to express herself than Fiona Apple or Tori Amos because he didn't have a rough life. She wasn't raped so her words don't matter. That is some twisted and scary logic but that is the logic you are following.
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Nobody ever said anything about anybody not having the right to express themselves however they want, and make whatever kind of music they want to make. All that was said was that certain people find Chris Martin to be less interesting because he's been through less. That is all.
 
elevated_u2_fan said:
:hmm:
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No, you missed my point there. That's not a knock on the band's intentions; that's just me getting tired of all the hype. I don't think Coldplay wrote Fix You just to sell it, I think Fix You is a shit song that's inevitably going to sell well. See the difference?
 
namkcuR said:
Nobody ever said anything about anybody not having the right to express themselves however they want, and make whatever kind of music they want to make. All that was said was that certain people find Chris Martin to be less interesting because he's been through less. That is all.
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Thank you. I didn't know this was some kind of new, incendiary position.
 
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