Chinese Democracy, Nov 25, through Best Buy ???

[UberBeaver]

Plague Rock.

Nice.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

 

[Zoots]

I have to say that even though songs like There Was A Time and Catcher In The Rye sound somewhat better now on what is my 4th listen of the myspace stream, they still seem to ramble on for too long. But the album overall does seems more listenable now. It's not flat out boring like on the first and second listens. I'm still skipping Shackler's Revenge though.

 

[phanan]

Finally took a listen to this. At least it's not a disaster; some songs aren't too bad. But overall, it's probably not something I would listen to that much. It really is nothing like the older albums.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

Its Not Guns N Roses, its Axl "Washed Out" Rose. Rant Time!


Axl Rose, I am sorry, but you ruined guns n roses. First you push all your former band members who were the heart and soul of the band to the edge, forcing them to quit because of your abusive dictatorship. You then put the "band" in a totally different musical direction, but not in a good way. You took little retards from nine inch nails, after going through a million and one line up changes. You made your fans wait for 14 years, for a terrible album. This is not Guns N Roses, this is Axl Rose Fea. Nine Inch Nails. Axl, I am sorry to say you have disgraced the name Guns N Roses. Today, all your concerned about is making money, and not the fans. Grow a pair, and make up with Slash. Guns N Roses is not Guns N Roses without your former crew. The album is totally crap, and when you play live and do older songs, it really pisses me off. Axl, you really need to get your head out of your ass. I have nothing more to say.



and yes I actually listened to the whole album. Street of Dreams was the only ok song, but it totally ripped off november rain.

 

[pepokiss]

Plague Rock.

Nice.

why did I thought of Limp Biskit when I saw that?

 

[MrPryck2U]

Its Not Guns N Roses, its Axl "Washed Out" Rose. Rant Time!


Axl Rose, I am sorry, but you ruined guns n roses. First you push all your former band members who were the heart and soul of the band to the edge, forcing them to quit because of your abusive dictatorship. You then put the "band" in a totally different musical direction, but not in a good way. You took little retards from nine inch nails, after going through a million and one line up changes. You made your fans wait for 14 years, for a terrible album. This is not Guns N Roses, this is Axl Rose Fea. Nine Inch Nails. Axl, I am sorry to say you have disgraced the name Guns N Roses. Today, all your concerned about is making money, and not the fans. Grow a pair, and make up with Slash. Guns N Roses is not Guns N Roses without your former crew. The album is totally crap, and when you play live and do older songs, it really pisses me off. Axl, you really need to get your head out of your ass. I have nothing more to say.



and yes I actually listened to the whole album. Street of Dreams was the only ok song, but it totally ripped off november rain.

Hey, Pac Mule, that was some rant.

For starters, I believe the expression is washed "up", not washed out. You do have a couple of valid points though. Axl did pretty much get rid of the heart and soul of Guns N' Roses by forcing all of the original members of the band out and he did shift the band into a new musical direction. But aside from that, I couldn't disagree more with you.

Last I checked, there was only one former member of Nine Inch Nails playing with Axl and that was drummer Robin Finck. Now, as a fan of NIN, I can tell you that the new Guns N' Roses doesn't really sound much like NIN.

Now, if Axl were only concerned about making money, Chinese Democracy would've been released in 1995 instead of 2008. You don't make much money waiting 8 years to tour again or 15 years to release an album of new material, so making money wasn't exactly the primary focus. Besides, Axl makes plenty of money from G n' R's back catalog. He didn't need to release this album, but he chose to see it to its completion anyway.

Yes, everyone from the original line-up is gone, but its not like that's never happened to a band before. When David Gilmour decided to release a new Pink Floyd album back in the 80's, he pretty much released a David Gilmour solo album and called it Pink Floyd. He too enlisted the services of many musicians to make his "Pink Floyd" album. Plus, when Ozzy and Dio were both done with Black Sabbath, Tony Iommi kept the the Sabbath machine rolling by employing an ever changing line-up of musicians and lead singers, so Axl's band changes aren't really that unprecedented.

Now, honestly, with Axl being the control freak that he is, would you honestly expect Slash or Duff to stick around and deal with Axl's bullshit forever? The answer is "NO". It was inevitable that Axl would get rid of everybody and be the last man standing from the old Guns N' Roses.

If seeing new Guns N' Roses play old songs really pisses you off, I suggest you no longer attend their shows.

Finally, if you think Street of Dreams rips off November Rain, I suggest you listen to both songs again. While both songs' themes may be similar, they sound nothing alike.

 

[phanan]

I don't think the comparison to Pink Floyd is a good one, as three of the four members were still in the group - only Waters was gone. Here, you only have one member remaining.

That said, I understand the point you are making.

 

[MrPryck2U]

I don't think the comparison to Pink Floyd is a good one, as three of the four members were still in the group - only Waters was gone. Here, you only have one member remaining.

That said, I understand the point you are making.

To further clarify the Pink Floyd situation, initially it was Gilmour and Mason who attempted to revive the Pink Floyd brand after Waters left the group. After moving forward with the project, Mason himself admitted he was out of practice drumming and another drummer was brought in to take over certain tracks. Gilmour also used a drum machine as well. Richard Wright re-joined the group during these recording sessions, but he was essentially a salaried employee with zero group input. So yes, you had Gilmour, but Mason and Wright were pretty much lumped in with the dozens of musicians that Gilmour had hired for the production of the album. In 1994, when Pink Floyd released The Division Bell, they were more truly Pink Floyd because Mason and Wright were once again bonafied members/contributors of Pink Floyd.

 

[phanan]

Well, if you want to get technical, then yes, Wright was a salaried employee, but Mason was a bonafide member still, despite his limited input.

So you had two official members still, with a third co-founder still involved. So no, it's not exactly the same.

 

[MrPryck2U]

Well, if you want to get technical, then yes, Wright was a salaried employee, but Mason was a bonafide member still, despite his limited input.

So you had two official members still, with a third co-founder still involved. So no, it's not exactly the same.

Well, I look at it as one official member, with the other two guys somewhere in the background along for the ride. But, you are correct, it's not exactly the same.

I'll just stick with my Tony Iommi/Black Sabbath example instead.

 

[Zoots]

I'm liking this album more now. lol.

 

[Irishteen]

I'm liking this album more now. lol.

How many times have you listened to it Zoots?

 

[brooklynmike]

I'm glad there are some people out there that can appreciate the music for what it is rather than immediately dismiss it because it's not Slash and Co.

If you're an Axl fan, you're gonna love it.
If you're not an Axl fan, you're gonna hate it.
If you're a casual listener with no pre conceived notions, you're gonna love it after a few listens.

 

[Zoots]

How many times have you listened to it Zoots?

About 4 or 5. I mean I still think some tracks are mediocre or boring. But there seems to be a handful of decent songs.

 

[Irishteen]

I'm glad there are some people out there that can appreciate the music for what it is rather than immediately dismiss it because it's not Slash and Co.

If you're an Axl fan, you're gonna love it.
If you're not an Axl fan, you're gonna hate it.
If you're a casual listener with no pre conceived notions, you're gonna love it after a few listens.

Or some people just won't like it at all? Seriously there's this thing called taste people have differing opinions, so don't generalise

About 4 or 5. I mean I still think some tracks are mediocre or boring. But there seems to be a handful of decent songs.

I just couldn't bring myself to listen to it again, excluding maybe 5 tracks I don't think I'll ever give the rest a listen again. I dig Chinese Democracy and Street Of Dreams well enough

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

I just can't see anyone who grew up listening to the old guns n roses and attending their shows could still possibly like the new guns n roses, if not simply because of the new musical direction.

 

[LemonMelon]

Guns N' Roses' lawyer to Dr Pepper: 'Our clients are outraged at your treatment of their fans' | Pop & Hiss | Los Angeles Times

Guns N' Roses lawyer Alan S. Gutman has lashed out at the Dr Pepper Snapple Group, claiming in a letter to the company that the soda makers failed to make good on a promise and "violated" Guns N' Roses' rights in "numerous respects."

In the letter, obtained by The Times, Gutman writes that W. Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses are "outraged at the treatment of their fans and the American public in general." Earlier this year, Dr Pepper officials teased that they would give everyone in the country a free soda if the band's album “Chinese Democracy” arrived before the year was out. Gutman writes that the promotion was "clumsily implemented " and an "unmitigated disaster."

After the release of "Chinese Democracy" was officially announced this fall, Tony Jacobs, Dr Pepper's vice president of marketing, posted at www.chinesedemocracywhen.blogspot.com: “We never thought this day would come. But now that it’s here, all we can say is: The Dr. Pepper’s on us.”

As Pop & Hiss noted Sunday, Dr Pepper's website was flooded with customers, who had 24 hours to fill out a voucher for a free soda on Nov. 23, the day "Chinese Democracy" was released exclusively to Best Buy. Fans who submitted their information to the site would receive a coupon for a free 20-ounce bottle of Dr Pepper. When Dr Pepper's site failed to respond to the traffic, the company extended the offer through Monday.

Writes Gutman, "What happened on November 23 was a complete fiasco. In what could only be characterized as reckless indifference or complete stupidity, Dr Pepper was completely unprepared for the traffic to its site. Most visitors were greeted with error messages. Some people who got through to Dr Pepper's servers were told to call a toll free number, few of whom got through. Many walked away angry as Dr Pepper ... soured the momentous music event that was 'Chinese Democracy's' release."

Gutman is requesting that Dr Pepper "contact us to discuss an appropriate payment to our clients" for the unofficial brand association. Gutman is also requesting the company run a full-page ad in a number of major American newspapers, including the L.A. Times, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, apologizing for the way the campaign was run. Finally, Gutman is asking Dr Pepper to expand the redemption window for the free soda offer to "make good on its promise."

A Dr Pepper spokesperson responded with a statement. "For us, this was a fun giveaway that has always been about the fans, and we’ve taken great steps to fulfill it." The company said it extended the giveaway window from 24 to 48 hours, added a toll-free line and set up "an interactive voice recorder to accept coupon requests."

"This was one of the largest responses we have ever received for a giveaway, and we’re happy we were able to satisfy the thirst of so many Dr Pepper fans," read the statement.

When the Dr Pepper promotion was announced in March -- when "Chinese Democracy" had no release date -- Dr Pepper noted that everyone in America, excluding former GNR guitarists Slash and Buckethead -- would be granted a free soda. Soon after, a statement attributed to Rose was posted on the official Guns N' Roses website, and back then, the band seemed game for the marketing ploy.

A screenshot is above, but read the Rose comment, "We are surprised and very happy to have the support of Dr Pepper with our album 'Chinese Democracy,' as for us, this came totally out of the blue. If there is any involvement with this promotion by our record company or others, we are unaware of such at this time. And as some of Buckethead's performances are on our album, I'll share my Dr Pepper with him."

Gutman's letter writes that all contact between GNR's management and Dr Pepper "foundered," and ends with a threat: "Failure to make an acceptable offer may necessitate our client's pursuit of available remedies."

--Todd Martens

Bahahahahahaha

 

[Zoots]

That is hilarious!

 

[david]

Heh Axl knows about failing to make good on a promise.. See prior Chinese Democracy release dates.

 

[BVS]

if not simply because of the new musical direction.

Couldn't the same thing be said about U2 fans of the 80's when AB came out, or when Pop came out, or when ATYCLB came out?

 

[MrPryck2U]

I just can't see anyone who grew up listening to the old guns n roses and attending their shows could still possibly like the new guns n roses, if not simply because of the new musical direction.

Well, I grew up with Guns N' Roses and I've attended a couple of their shows and I like this new album a lot.

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

I really think this CD is great. I've been listening to it a lot since I picked it up a couple of Sundays ago. There are a couple of duds, but Madagascar, Street of Dreams, and Better are great songs. Catcher in the Rye, and If the World are extremely good songs and Chinese Democracy (the song) is getting bashed only because it's not Welcome to the Jungle.

I think a lot of people are not giving it its due because of all the time it took to release it...but I have to say well done Axl...

 

[Zoots]

Finally took a listen to this. At least it's not a disaster; some songs aren't too bad. But overall, it's probably not something I would listen to that much. It really is nothing like the older albums.

I think this is the opinion I agree most with right now. Even though it does not compare with Appetite or Illusion, this album does have a handful of decent tracks. But I don't see myself going back to it all that much in the future. Current favorite: Street Of Dreams. If The World, though it's an interesting change of direction is such a let down after Street Of Dreams!

PS: The artwork and liner notes are nice.

 

[MrPryck2U]

The more I listen to this album, the more I think it just takes off where the Use Your Illusion albums ended.

Appetite For Destruction is one of my favorite albums of all time, but the Use Your Illusion albums are the real Guns N' Roses. Thanks to the huge success of Appetite, Axl and Company were really able to spread their wings production-wise on their next LP and Axl's true vision of rock and roll was realized on a grander scale.

I think if you're going to listen to Chinese Democracy, you have to forget that it took so long to release. Chinese Democracy sounds like a Guns N' Roses album. Too bad it wasn't promoted properly or else it would've sold more copies upon its release. Hey, Axl Rose, where did you go?

 

[MadForIt]

Street of Dreams is a classic

other than that its taking time to soak in

 

[Zoots]

Appetite For Destruction is one of my favorite albums of all time, but the Use Your Illusion albums are the real Guns N' Roses. Thanks to the huge success of Appetite, Axl and Company were really able to spread their wings production-wise on their next LP and Axl's true vision of rock and roll was realized on a grander scale.

Well said! The Illusion albums are eternal rock classics, in my opinion.

Btw, Chinese Democracy has really grown on me over the last few weeks! Even more so than the last time I posted here. Sorry is the current favorite... especially when it picks up with Axl's scream-singing chorus! I even like Shackler's Revenge and Riad.. now to an extent, 2 tracks that I hated upon first listen. Lots of decent material here worth at least 4 stars out of 5. Still can't get into most of Prostitute though. It gets a lot better in the end.

Too bad it wasn't promoted properly or else it would've sold more copies upon its release.

Huh? I thought it was in the Top 5 for new album sales of that week?

 

[MMP]

Hmmm...I haven't seen this thread

First of all, I'm an Axl fan and an Slash fan...but hey, if he decided to leave Guns, that's his decision. I don't think it's wrong to keep using the band name. (C'mon, there's so many bands that change their line-ups every two years and there's no problem, as long the main songwriters are not changed, there's no problem.)
What takes me to the second point, maybe Axl is all that remained from the original Guns, but he IS the main songwriter...and he's the one that has always wanted the band to move foward...doing different things (So many people here saying that's outrageous the fact that he moved away from Guns "classic" sound. Guess you don't like Achtung Baby either, right? Ok, it's not AB kind of innovation, but it's different. And a little innovation is waaaay better than stay stuck in that same style.)
And now, the third point: the album itself
-IMO, it's perfect. 10/10.
-And I must say, to me is the best album of the decade.
-It's been a loooong time since I don't feel compelled by a song like "There Was a Time"
-Or a really badass rock song like "Chinese Democracy" or "Shackler's Revenge"
-To me, no one really rocks like this anymore (No, Guns is not my favorite band, before you ask. They're not even in my top 5.) But no one makes hard-rock like this in these days. What do we have? Nickelback?
- I enjoyed every second of this album...and that's it, my honest opinion

A great collection of hard-rock songs that are even more "classic" than what Guns did in the past, but feels like something "modern" cause no one does it anymore.
Congratulations Axl, to me at least, you proved yourself.
I could say what I think about each song, but there's something that no will read.

 

[MrPryck2U]

Well said! The Illusion albums are eternal rock classics, in my opinion.

Btw, Chinese Democracy has really grown on me over the last few weeks! Even more so than the last time I posted here. Sorry is the current favorite... especially when it picks up with Axl's scream-singing chorus! I even like Shackler's Revenge and Riad.. now to an extent, 2 tracks that I hated upon first listen. Lots of decent material here worth at least 4 stars out of 5. Still can't get into most of Prostitute though. It gets a lot better in the end.



Huh? I thought it was in the Top 5 for new album sales of that week?

Glad to hear you're enjoying the album! It was in the Top 5, but usually a release like this demands a number 1 opening week. I think Kanye or Shitney got number 1 over Axl.

Hey, MrMacPhist, glad you dig the album too. Every time I see this thread, I put on the album.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

Axl addresses all the issues regarding the lineup, the name, and the new band in an open letter over at the band's site:

Guns N' Roses: News

I thought it was an interesting read.

I'm listening to the album and I'm enjoying it. It's amazing how long we've waited for this one.