Arcade Fire. Formal wear or costumes only please.

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lazarus said:
Who fucking cares
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You, obviously.

I don't cancel one of my favorite artists over the last 20 years over a pitchfork article with nothing but some allegations and text messages.

If I'm going to hold my musicians to the standard of that article, I'd have nobody left to listen to. The Beatles, out based on the claims of the young women they had at the hotels and the massive power discrepancy. Elvis, out. Johnny cash, out. Zeppelin, holy shit, lock them up. Pearl Jam...you've heard Lukin? Eddie obviously fathered a woman's child by rape if you've heard the lyrics. I mean, she said so. PJ, you're out.

As for your tiny little internet opinion and comment? Who fucking cares.
 
It’s such a tough spot to be in as a fan. I recently dealt with this with Dance Gavin Dance where their singer was accused of sexual assault, but in recent months after it appears that the woman was actually lying about it. That’s why I never wanna be too quick to assume someone’s guilty. It’s a good lesson that any cases we need to both take the victim and the accused in mind.

I don’t know a ton about this case because I’m not a huge Arcade Fire fan so maybe the case is all a bit more concrete here but I think it’s best to stay grounded and not rush to judgment.
 
It’s a very bold (I’d argue foolish) stance to support Win, someone who lets be honest people don’t really know anything about on a personal level, when it comes to such a serious allegation. Even more bold to be posting about going to see his concerts and enjoying them. It certainly wouldn’t be me going on about how great a show was when there’s always a real possibility the guy is guilty and you’ve been supporting him. Surely even if you do ‘think’ he’s innocent it’s better not to attend or cheer him on just now until things become clearer. That’s a far more balanced stance rather than actively supporting him and at the same time showing absolutely no care or interest towards the potential victim(s). If it is true any attendee has to accept they are someone who made the victims life even worse by supporting Win.
 
lightmyway91 said:
It’s a very bold (I’d argue foolish) stance to support Win, someone who lets be honest people don’t really know anything about on a personal level, when it comes to such a serious allegation. Even more bold to be posting about going to see his concerts and enjoying them. It certainly wouldn’t be me going on about how great a show was when there’s always a real possibility the guy is guilty and you’ve been supporting him. Surely even if you do ‘think’ he’s innocent it’s better not to attend or cheer him on just now until things become clearer. That’s a far more balanced stance rather than actively supporting him and at the same time showing absolutely no care or interest towards the potential victim(s). If it is true any attendee has to accept they are someone who made the victims life even worse by supporting Win.
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I think it's equally as bold as going after fans of Arcade Fire. The guy enjoyed the show and chose to separate the art from the person. Move on.
 
mikal said:
I think it's equally as bold as going after fans of Arcade Fire. The guy enjoyed the show and chose to separate the art from the person. Move on.
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Not really bold questioning someone’s support of someone who’s been accused of sexual assault. I’d have to strongly disagree with you calling it equally bold. I don’t think I’m going after anyone either, simply pointing out that should Win be found guilty arcade fire fans will have to live with that on their conscious, attending shows when they knew about the allegations, supporting a guy they don’t even know on a personal level.
 
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lightmyway91 said:
Not really bold questioning someone’s support of someone who’s been accused of sexual assault. I’d have to strongly disagree with you calling it equally bold. I don’t think I’m going after anyone either, simply pointing out that should Win be found guilty arcade fire fans will have to live with that on their conscious, attending shows when they knew about the allegations, supporting a guy they don’t even know on a personal level.
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Well the whole discussion started because ImOuttaControl went to a concert and enjoyed it, so yeah you are going after him.

What you're basically describing here is a process that fans should follow where they no longer wait until someone is proved guilty. My personal thought is that fans should be able to make a choice without being called out for it.
 
mikal said:
Well the whole discussion started because ImOuttaControl went to a concert and enjoyed it, so yeah you are going after him.

What you're basically describing here is a process that fans should follow where they no longer wait until someone is proved guilty. My personal thought is that fans should be able to make a choice without being called out for it.
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What you described as ‘going after’ is me stating my opinion on what I believe is a more appropriate action when dealing with a case of this nature. If someone is big enough to declare how much they enjoyed a show when the lead singer is an alleged sex offender then they should be big enough to deal with my opinion. Although it’s a general view on my part, I don’t know ImOuttaControl but I do think less of people that when given the choice will support someone accused of sexual assault rather than take a step back. I’m entitled to think that way and I feel very comfortable with my stance on the matter. I find it quite staggering how people can be so comfortable sticking their necks out to support someone they don’t know on a personal level when it comes to such a serious accusation. It means completely disregarding the thoughts and feelings of potential victims.
 
He was accused of something and denied it. I have no clue what the real story was. Either way, he made some really bad choices.

We'll make sure that if they ever release another album that we'll say "In all respect to the potential victims and with acknowledgment that Win Butler is not a good person, I find this album to be enjoyable".

Sound good?
 
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mikal said:
He was accused of something and denied it. I have no clue what the real story was. Either way, he made some really bad choices.

We'll make sure that if they ever release another album that we'll say "In all respect to the potential victims and with acknowledgment that Win Butler is not a good person, I find this album to be enjoyable".

Sound good?
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Sounds like you’re making light of the matter, let’s hope it’s never any of your friends or family that are the victim of some celebrities crime in the future. Some things in life require a bit of decency when laws aren’t in place to stop them. If it was a friend of yours making the accusation would you be posting about enjoying an arcade fire show on social media or playing their music still? I doubt it. Unfortunately for some people it seems to take having to be close to the situation to actually care.
 
lightmyway91 said:
Sounds like you’re making light of the matter, let’s hope it’s never any of your friends or family that are the victim of some celebrities crime in the future. Some things in life require a bit of decency when laws aren’t in place to stop them. If it was a friend of yours making the accusation would you be posting about enjoying an arcade fire show on social media or playing their music still? I doubt it. Unfortunately for some people it seems to take having to be close to the situation to actually care.
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I sure hope none of my friends or family are victims of a crime in any shape or form. I also hope that if any of my friends or family are accused of a crime, that they are presumed innocent before proven guilty, and that anyone who chooses to support them isn't looked at in a lesser value.
 
mikal said:
I sure hope none of my friends or family are victims of a crime in any shape or form. I also hope that if any of my friends or family are accused of a crime, that they are presumed innocent before proven guilty, and that anyone who chooses to support them isn't looked at in a lesser value.
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Very good deflection tactics but ultimately if your friends or family claimed to be the victim of a crime regardless of your presumed innocent statement you wouldn’t be presuming the person they accused as innocent. I don’t think anyone should be presumed as innocent or guilty in the wider view of things (ie general public not people close to the accusation.) we can’t make an assumption either way, but I do think it’s foolish for anyone who isn’t a close friend/relative to support someone accused of sexual assault. Arcade fire fans going to shows and posting positive reviews are doing that. How can it be anything less than foolish, 99.9% of fans don’t know anything about Win personally, they are letting a love for the music he’s involved in overshadow the moral side of things. I’m not assuming Win’s guilty, I’m saying it’s reckless and foolish to support him when you don’t know if he’s innocent or guilty.
 
lightmyway91 said:
Sounds like you’re making light of the matter, let’s hope it’s never any of your friends or family that are the victim of some celebrities crime in the future. Some things in life require a bit of decency when laws aren’t in place to stop them. If it was a friend of yours making the accusation would you be posting about enjoying an arcade fire show on social media or playing their music still? I doubt it. Unfortunately for some people it seems to take having to be close to the situation to actually care.
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the issue of sexual abuse and misconduct is something that IS close to me. and i don't give a shit if someone goes to see Arcade Fire. i'm glad he enjoyed the show.

perhaps don't paint everyone with such a broad brush.

there were parts of the pitchfork article that were vague and odd, and other parts that were incredibly detailed. it made accusations of abuse of power and "age gaps," as if the accusers were somehow subordinates or employees. no other major outlet has picked up the story beyond just reporting what pitchfork said. there has been zero follow up on any of it - and you can't tell me that other reporters haven't tried.

so it's a weird, sad situation that fans suddenly find themselves in - with an article dropped by a music blog who doesn't typically get in to this kind of investigation - with weird, irrelevant accusations of abuse of power, and, yes, very serious accusations that would seem to point to criminal conduct... with zero follow up from anyone.

i've personally stopped listening to arcade fire. i didn't see them in DC like I had originally planned. i'm taking a wait and see approach. i hope more comes out - i hope it's further addressed - one way or the other. it's very weird to me that this came out and the flood gates didn't open after - as typically happens in these types of situations.

but still - i'm personally taking a break from them, solely because of the accusations.

but i'm also not going to call someone an asshole because they haven't taken a break - nor would i call someone an asshole who listened to, say, Michael Jackson. do you stand up and protest every time Billie Jean comes on? do you walk out of sports arenas when Rock and Roll Part 2 is played?
 
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lightmyway91 said:
Very good deflection tactics but ultimately if your friends or family claimed to be the victim of a crime regardless of your presumed innocent statement you wouldn’t be presuming the person they accused as innocent. I don’t think anyone should be presumed as innocent or guilty in the wider view of things (ie general public not people close to the accusation.) we can’t make an assumption either way, but I do think it’s foolish for anyone who isn’t a close friend/relative to support someone accused of sexual assault. Arcade fire fans going to shows and posting positive reviews are doing that. How can it be anything less than foolish, 99.9% of fans don’t know anything about Win personally, they are letting a love for the music he’s involved in overshadow the moral side of things. I’m not assuming Win’s guilty, I’m saying it’s reckless and foolish to support him when you don’t know if he’s innocent or guilty.
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That’s why I said a few posts back that they should have canceled the tour until it all gets sorted out. But let’s not make a member here feel like shit because he enjoyed a concert.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
the issue of sexual abuse and misconduct is something that IS close to me. and i don't give a shit if someone goes to see Arcade Fire. i'm glad he enjoyed the show.

perhaps don't paint everyone with such a broad brush.

there were parts of the pitchfork article that were vague and odd, and other parts that were incredibly detailed. it made accusations of abuse of power and "age gaps," as if the accusers were somehow subordinates or employees. no other major outlet has picked up the story beyond just reporting what pitchfork said. there has been zero follow up on any of it - and you can't tell me that other reporters haven't tried.

so it's a weird, sad situation that fans suddenly find themselves in - with an article dropped by a music blog who doesn't typically get in to this kind of investigation - with weird, irrelevant accusations of abuse of power, and, yes, very serious accusations that would seem to point to criminal conduct... with zero follow up from anyone.

i've personally stopped listening to arcade fire. i didn't see them in DC like I had originally planned. i'm taking a wait and see approach. i hope more comes out - i hope it's further addressed - one way or the other. it's very weird to me that this came out and the flood gates didn't open after - as typically happens in these types of situations.

but still - i'm taking a break from them, solely because of the accusations.

but i'm also not going to call someone an asshole because they haven't taken a break - nor would i call someone an asshole who listened to, say, Michael Jackson. do you stand up and protest every time Billie Jean comes on? do you walk out of sports arenas when Rock and Roll Part 2 is played?
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I’m glad about the stance you’re taking, I think it’s the only logical thing to do in all honesty. I’m not calling someone an asshole as a such maybe describing them in a way in which someone would use that reference but I don’t feel bad nor would apologise for it. The amount of people who do these crimes that walk free is bad enough without fans blinded by their love for a band walking around actively supporting someone that hasn’t been proven innocent up til now. Why is it so difficult for people to sit on the fence and stay back from shows? The sad reality is people just don’t care, their love for the music is more important to them than the feelings of a potential victim, that’s what it comes down to. Anyone that selfish deserves criticism in my view. In your examples no I wouldn’t protest it or walk out but I wouldn’t enjoy it either and I’d be against it. Ultimately it’s not something I'm going out my way to try and change, it’s down to the individuals, I just personally don’t relate at all to people ignoring moral issues for art and never will and I’m happy to express this disagreement and not particularly wanting to be friends/on good terms with someone who looks at things that way.
 
mikal said:
That’s why I said a few posts back that they should have canceled the tour until it all gets sorted out. But let’s not make a member here feel like shit because he enjoyed a concert.
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Well I agree with you there about cancelling the tour, 100% it should have been cancelled. It’s still the choice of the fan though whether to attend or not and I think less of anyone that does attend and even less when expressing they enjoyed it. It’s selfish at best, I’ll go back to what I said to you, if it had been a friend of relative of the person who posted saying how much they enjoyed it that had accused Win then they wouldn’t have attended, wouldn’t be listening to arcade fire and wouldn’t be posting positive stuff about them but because it’s someone they don’t know they don’t care and are happy to enjoy themselves and in doing so are supporting Win, a possible sex offender.
 
lightmyway91 said:
Well I agree with you there about cancelling the tour, 100% it should have been cancelled. It’s still the choice of the fan though whether to attend or not and I think less of anyone that does attend and even less when expressing they enjoyed it. It’s selfish at best, I’ll go back to what I said to you, if it had been a friend of relative of the person who posted saying how much they enjoyed it that had accused Win then they wouldn’t have attended, wouldn’t be listening to arcade fire and wouldn’t be posting positive stuff about them but because it’s someone they don’t know they don’t care and are happy to enjoy themselves and in doing so are supporting Win, a possible sex offender.
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I don't know why you keep using that analogy. The member that posted about seeing them, to my knowledge, is not a relative of any of the possible victims and I would assume that anyone going to their concerts is not a friend or relative of the people that attended the concerts. That analogy doesn't really apply to what we're talking about.
 
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mikal said:
I don't know why you keep using that analogy. The member that posted about seeing them, to my knowledge, is not a relative of any of the possible victims and I would assume that anyone going to their concerts is not a friend or relative of the people that attended the concerts. That analogy doesn't really apply to what we're talking about.
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That’s the point, that person doesn’t care because they aren’t a friend or relative. It’s ‘not their problem’ and that is the problem. If it’s not something that affects someone directly they are happy to put their own selfish wants first. What they are ultimately saying is ‘who cares whether he’s done it or not I’m still going’. They can’t be sure he hasn’t done it, just like they can’t be sure he has but by going to the gig fans are actively making a stance in favour of someone accused of sexual assault who hasn’t been proven innocent. It’s reckless, foolish and I’ll now add selfish as well. It would be very easy to sit on the fence at least if they actually cared even a little bit but by going to see arcade fire they’re actively supporting Win without even waiting for any sort of proof of innocence. Not just showing a lack of care about the potential victim but pretty much sticking two fingers up to them.
 
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lightmyway91 said:
That’s the point, that person doesn’t care because they aren’t a friend or relative. It’s ‘not their problem’ and that is the problem. If it’s not something that affects someone directly they are happy to put their own selfish wants first. What they are ultimately saying is ‘who cares whether he’s done it or not I’m still going’. They can’t be sure he hasn’t done it, just like they can’t be sure he has but by going to the gig fans are actively making a stance in favour of someone accused of sexual assault who hasn’t been proven innocent. It’s reckless, foolish and I’ll now add selfish as well. It would be very easy to sit on the fence at least if they actually cared even a little bit but by going to see arcade fire they’re actively supporting Win without even waiting for any sort of proof of innocence.
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I really hope you don't judge your friends and relatives to the extreme that you're judging Arcade Fire fans that made the choice to attend their concerts.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
yea how about you stop calling this guy reckless, foolish and selfish for going to a rock show.
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How about stop going to a rock show which features an alleged sexual offender and showing a little bit of consideration for others. Reckless, foolish and selfish and that’s being kind to someone supporting Win, a man accused of sexual assault.
 
mikal said:
I really hope you don't judge your friends and relatives to the extreme that you're judging Arcade Fire fans that made the choice to attend their concerts.
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I only judge when it comes to important moral issues, not that extreme really. If someone cares so little about a possible victim that they are happy to go to a gig and essentially stick 2 fingers up to them then I’m happy to criticise that individual.
 
mikal said:
What in the actual fuck.
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Are you going to seriously suggest that me calling someone foolish, reckless and selfish is worse than laughing in the face of a potential victim of sexual assault by attending a show featuring the person alleged to have done it? Put yourself in the victims shoes for a minute, think what all that could do to someone, being brave enough to speak up but thousands of people still turn up to see and listen to the music of the guy that did it, to post positive reviews afterwards, imagine how that would make you feel, all they arcade fire fans who refuse to just take a step back. Yet I’m getting painted as the bad guy?
 
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