What does Adam believe?

[Irvine511]

He relies on Christ's sacrifice, not his own goodness, for his ticket to Heaven.

i don't understand this.

nor do i understand the obsession with entrance into heaven, as if it's a contest or a lottery or getting inside the bomb shelter on the Virtigo tour.

i would also speculate that Bono would expect to meet many Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, and Muslims in heaven.

i've never, ever read him espousing the exclusivity of Christianity, which necessarily comes at the expense of others.

 

[80sU2isBest]

my guess (and the reason i wanted to make the point about Bono) is that the loudest voices in the media -- and, to be totally honest, many based upon my own personal experience -- certainly aren't like that.

it's a stereotype, of course, as wrong as any other, and there are many self-described conservative Christians on this board who have more in common with Bono than with Dobson, and i've certainly learned that "Christian" is as complex an identity category as any other, but the political manifestation of Conservative Christianity seems far, far less concerned with the poor than with the regulation of sexuality, or with the enforced gestation of a fetus and not the post-birth life of a child, like being pro-birth and not genuinely pro-life.

but this is FYM stuff.

Did you see the 20/20 episode from a couple of months back which said that studies show that "religious" people in America are much more likely to give to charities than "non religious" people in America, and when they do give, they give much more than non-religious Americans?

and as far as the other things referenced:

"Not only can he quote scripture, he seems to apply it to his life. He relies on Christ's sacrifice, not his own goodness, for his ticket to Heaven"

Most of the Christians I know are like that.

But what you said may be true: that some of the loudest in the media are not like that. But then again, the "media-loudest" of most groups usually are not representative of the group as a whole. You know the generalization we could make about football players if we held up Terrell Owens as the football poster boy?

 

[Irvine511]

i generally agree.

though, about the charities, i wonder if much of the difference isn't due to church-related charities, if giving to your church is counted as a charitable donation.

 

[80sU2isBest]

i generally agree.

though, about the charities, i wonder if much of the difference isn't due to church-related charities, if giving to your church is counted as a charitable donation.

They addressed that. They said that the idea that religious people give mainly to the church is a myth.

Here's an article about it:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1

 

[Irvine511]

i would also imagine that non-churchgoers are more likely to vote for politicians who are likely to spend money on social programs -- Head Start, for example -- and use government as a mechanism for assisting the poor because, for many, and i include myself, while individual charity is a nice thing, it's not enough to genuinely address the structural problems that keep people in poverty for generations. brining a family presents on christmas is a lovley gesture, but adequately funded schools are going to do a lot more to get children out of poverty.

and i think the article agrees with that:

[q]"You find that people who believe it's the government's job to make incomes more equal, are far less likely to give their money away," Brooks says. In fact, people who disagree with the statement, "The government has a basic responsibility to take care of the people who can't take care of themselves," are 27 percent more likely to give to charity.[/q]

and in an ideal world, i think we'd love to have both -- a government that works, and individuals who give.

 

[80sU2isBest]

and in an ideal world, i think we'd love to have both -- a government that works, and individuals who give.

I agree. I think that the government should help people who can't help themselves. At the same time I think that people shouldn't use the excuse "oh, the government gives, so I don't need to".

 

[U2isthebest]

i don't understand this.

nor do i understand the obsession with entrance into heaven, as if it's a contest or a lottery or getting inside the bomb shelter on the Virtigo tour.

i would also speculate that Bono would expect to meet many Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, and Muslims in heaven.

i've never, ever read him espousing the exclusivity of Christianity, which necessarily comes at the expense of others.

I'm sure you know of all the times that Bono has spoken of Jesus being the only Messiah, Savior, etc. There's a long passage about that in "Bono: In Conversation" That in and of itself doesn't "exclude" anyone, as it shouldn't. Real Believers believe Jesus died once for all, however we have to be willing to go to Him and receive that forgiveness by asking for it, knowing he's the only way to go about it. The Bible talks numerous times in the New Testament about the redeeming, and salvation work of Jesus, which I'm sure you know of. I don't have the sources now, but I will definitely try and find them of at least 2 times where Bono has stated this need. One of them was an L.A. Times article from 2005 where he said (and once again, I have the quotes, but I deleted the sources, where I actually found them ) "I genuinely believe that second only to personal redemption the most important part of the Scriptures-2,100 passages in all-refers to the world's poor." So if he's taking that from The Bible, and The Bible clearly states that redemption comes only from Jesus that must be what he's referring to. He also says "personal" meaning we all to have our own time when he come to Jesus and acknowledge Him. As I said, Jesus died once, for all, but we must come to him on a personal basis and receive that forgiveness. At Bill Hybel's leadership conference this past summer Bono said: "Next to personal redemption and salvation, the main thrust of the Scriptures is to meet Christ in working with the poor." Interestingly, most of the "secular" and "Christian" media cut off the first part of Bono's quote. Another thing I found interesting was in "U2 by U2" when Bono is talking again about the inspiration for the song "One Step Closer" Bono said "The title came from a conversation I was having with Noel Gallagher. We were talking about whether my dad had his faith or not. I said I didn't think he did anymore. I thought he had lost it. I wasn't sure he knew where he was going." You've probably heard a lot of Believers say "well, at least we know where he/she is" or "I don't know where he/she is" after a person has passed away, so to me if Bono is not even willing to say he knows where his own father is spending eternity (a man, who was Catholic at one time) ( a group that at times, has claimed to be the only ones who might be saved) He certainly wouldn't extend to that to everyone else in the world. A real Believer doesn't try and negate The Bible. Jesus clearly said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me." However, they simply refuse to make judgements on individuals hearts like so many self-righteous modern day Pharisees do. Personally, I see Bono like myself and many other Believers, not saying "follow your own path, see what works, he clearly says salvation through Jesus is most important; however he is willing to look at his own life and concentrate on his own relationship with God than looking at someone else's.

 

[80sU2isBest]

u2isthebest,

 

[redhotswami]

They addressed that. They said that the idea that religious people give mainly to the church is a myth.

Here's an article about it:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1

I'm not a fan of this article. Is donating money to charity the only way to give? Clearly not, but this article seems to think so. There are loads of organizations, both religious and non-religious, that have members volunteering, dedicating their lives, time, etc. to the community. I think that is more commendable than throwing money into a bucket and walking away or giving blood. I'm not saying that those services aren't necessary, they are, but it takes a lot more to give up a year of your life to AmeriCorps than to write a check and move on. I'd rather be part of the group that gives more time for service than money. It'd be interesting for them to do a comparison study of who is volunteering.

 

[80sU2isBest]

I'm not a fan of this article. Is donating money to charity the only way to give? Clearly not, but this article seems to think so. There are loads of organizations, both religious and non-religious, that have members volunteering, dedicating their lives, time, etc. to the community. I think that is more commendable than throwing money into a bucket and walking away or giving blood. I'm not saying that those services aren't necessary, they are, but it takes a lot more to give up a year of your life to AmeriCorps than to write a check and move on. I'd rather be part of the group that gives more time for service than money. It'd be interesting for them to do a comparison study of who is volunteering.

Without money, aid cannot be given.

But, since you want to talk about other methods of helping, let me mention a few organizations.

Compassion International
World Vision
Feed The Children
Food For The Poor
Global Relief Charity
World Emergency Relief
Gleanings for the Hungry
HOPE Worldwide
Medical Ministry Int'l
Mercy Ships
Beyond Borders
World Relief
Partners Worldwide
Living Water International
Opportunity International

What do they all have in comon? They are all faith-based relief programs, and most, if not all, were founded by Americans. And there's more where they came from.

And what about all the city missions? Again, run by Americans of faith. And what about the night shelters? And the Crisis Pregnancy Centers? And what about the churches all over America that organize activities that help the needy?

And talking about giving a year of their lives, American missionaries by the droves do that and more. They often dedicate their entire lives to helping others.

I think there's no chance that any study would show that Americans of faith are any less involved in charity work than Americans without faith.

 

[Nube Gris]

God's changed Adam Clayton for good....and he knows it
He'll soon recognize it

 

[redhotswami]

Without money, aid cannot be given.

But, since you want to talk about other methods of helping, let me mention a few organizations.

Compassion International
World Vision
Feed The Children
Food For The Poor
Global Relief Charity
World Emergency Relief
Gleanings for the Hungry
HOPE Worldwide
Medical Ministry Int'l
Mercy Ships
Beyond Borders
World Relief
Partners Worldwide
Living Water International
Opportunity International

What do they all have in comon? They are all faith-based relief programs, and most, if not all, were founded by Americans. And there's more where they came from.

And what about all the city missions? Again, run by Americans of faith. And what about the night shelters? And the Crisis Pregnancy Centers? And what about the churches all over America that organize activities that help the needy?

And talking about giving a year of their lives, American missionaries by the droves do that and more. They often dedicate their entire lives to helping others.

I think there's no chance that any study would show that Americans of faith are any less involved in charity work than Americans without faith.

I've got an even longer list for you: www.cnvs.org (which not only recruits catholics, but people of all religions and non religions.) And consider how many people from this nation alone sign up for AmeriCorps and PeaceCorps...and last time we had a gathering, there were more nonreligious than religious. My point is, giving money isn't the only way to give, and I think it is silly to suggest that just because a specific group gives more money than another group, that they are the ones who give more. My point is, I think if a survey was done, you'd be surprised to see that it is quite balanced between religious (and not just Christians!) and nonreligious.

 

[80sU2isBest]

I've got an even longer list for you: www.cnvs.org (which not only recruits catholics, but people of all religions and non religions.) And consider how many people from this nation alone sign up for AmeriCorps and PeaceCorps...and last time we had a gathering, there were more nonreligious than religious. My point is, giving money isn't the only way to give, and I think it is silly to suggest that just because a specific group gives more money than another group, that they are the ones who give more. My point is, I think if a survey was done, you'd be surprised to see that it is quite balanced between religious (and not just Christians!) and nonreligious.

I came to the defnse of American Christians because of the following post:

"By the way, the same could be said for stereotypical "American Christians" compared to what the Bible teaches. We seem to ignore the parts of the Bible that speak to our tretment of the poor, for exmple."

By referring to studies and the large number of relief organizations and social services founded and run by Christians as well as the large number of misisonaries, I think have proven that post inaccurate.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

80s, I think that the post may have been a comment on the perception that American Christians place more priority on issues of private morality (sex, abortion, homosexuality, etc.) than on social issues like poverty, minimum wage, unions, etc. Whether or not this is true, one can argue, but I think it is safe to say that if you look at the political scene you could easily come to this conclusion. I know that I myself, having spent the majority of my life immersed in the "Christian" community would agree that although religious people do donate money, there doesn't seem to me to be a whole lot of compassion towards the "other". Often, the giving is done with a very holier-than-thou attitude...ie, let us give to the poor people in darkest Africa so that the missionaries can save their souls and make them into good Christians. Or it comes with strings attached or at least the hope that you will be able to convert those whom you are "ministering" to or help them see the error of their ways. Again, you may argue that people don't know what is really happening, that Christians give in large amounts, but I think that the salient point is that they seem awfully silent on matters of social justice and deafening loud of issues of private morality.

And lastly, the thing that stands out to me from this thread is a weird obession that many "Christians" have with the club mentality...who is "in" and who is "out". Have you said the right words or do you believe exactly the right creed? Are those the things that make one a follower of Christ? I certainly hope not, but I'm afraid that this is the impression I was given after years in the conservative community

 

[80sU2isBest]

80s, I think that the post may have been a comment on the perception that American Christians place more priority on issues of private morality (sex, abortion, homosexuality, etc.) than on social issues like poverty, minimum wage, unions, etc. Whether or not this is true, one can argue, but I think it is safe to say that if you look at the political scene you could easily come to this conclusion. I know that I myself, having spent the majority of my life immersed in the "Christian" community would agree that although religious people do donate money, there doesn't seem to me to be a whole lot of compassion towards the "other".

We must have had very different experiences in the Christian community, because that is not accurate of my 40 years experience at all.

but I think that the salient point is that they seem awfully silent on matters of social justice and deafening loud of issues of private morality.

The thing is that what you see as "private" morality, Conservative Christians may not see as having private ramifications. Take out number one issue, abortion. Abortion hardly affects just one person. If the fetus is life, then abortion is murder, and that's hardly a private affair.

 

[Irvine511]

I'm sure you know of all the times that Bono has spoken of Jesus being the only Messiah, Savior, etc. There's a long passage about that in "Bono: In Conversation" That in and of itself doesn't "exclude" anyone, as it shouldn't. Real Believers believe Jesus died once for all, however we have to be willing to go to Him and receive that forgiveness by asking for it, knowing he's the only way to go about it.

actually, no, i don't know of Bono claiming the exclusivity of Jesus. i know of Bono believing in God and looking to Jesus as a model, but i don't know of him asserting the superiority of Christianity over all other religions, and i think he'd object to the phrase "Real Believers" as well, because that phrase is so, so, so dangerous and pretty much why Christians have been killing people for the past 2000 years.

Bono speaks of redemption, and to Christians it can be inferred that he is speaking of redemption through Christ, but it's a logical leap to brandish this comment as proof that Bono is a "True Believer" or a Conservative Christian or thinks that Hindus are totally screwed when they die. you're taking your own understanding of the Bible and shaping Bono's words to fit that. i'm not saying you're right or wrong, but i am saying that you've got to be very careful not to conflate your own (highly contestable) beliefs with Bono's beliefs, and also to recognize that there are many people out there who might very well disagree with you on what it means to be a "True Believer" or even that such a title has any meaning at all, and my guess is that Bono would be one of those people who would object to such a label. your interpretations are no better, and no worse, than anyone else's -- debate them, please, and discuss and learn and share, but don't assume you hold truth and other's don't.

 

[biff]

Another thing I found interesting was in "U2 by U2" when Bono is talking again about the inspiration for the song "One Step Closer" Bono said "The title came from a conversation I was having with Noel Gallagher. We were talking about whether my dad had his faith or not. I said I didn't think he did anymore. I thought he had lost it. I wasn't sure he knew where he was going." You've probably heard a lot of Believers say "well, at least we know where he/she is" or "I don't know where he/she is" after a person has passed away, so to me if Bono is not even willing to say he knows where his own father is spending eternity (a man, who was Catholic at one time) ( a group that at times, has claimed to be the only ones who might be saved) He certainly wouldn't extend to that to everyone else in the world.

While I agree with some other things you have said, I think that here you are mis-reading that quote of Bono's. Note that he says: "I wasn't sure he knew where he was going." He doesn't say: "I wasn't sure where he was going." There's a major difference there.
(And in other remarks he has said that he believes he will see both his parents again.)

 

[Casamares]

Probably nobody looks here in after such a long time, but I found this in one interview and thought why don't post it:
(about Adam)
"And yet, while he does "have difficulty with the way (spirituality) can be portrayed sometimes," he also believes what his lead singer has said about the Elevation Tour: God is in the house.

"I don't quite know what it is...but I definitely know when it's there. It doesn't happen every night, but some nights there's a sense of community and fellowship. And people have said there's a spiritual aspect to what's happening in the house."

 

[Odessa]

I think that from what I've read he has more of a spiritual view , just from what I have read

 

[Odessa]

I like the quote very much, thanks for sharing

 

[Rachel D.]

actually, no, i don't know of Bono claiming the exclusivity of Jesus. i know of Bono believing in God and looking to Jesus as a model, but i don't know of him asserting the superiority of Christianity over all other religions, and i think he'd object to the phrase "Real Believers" as well, because that phrase is so, so, so dangerous and pretty much why Christians have been killing people for the past 2000 years.

Bono speaks of redemption, and to Christians it can be inferred that he is speaking of redemption through Christ, but it's a logical leap to brandish this comment as proof that Bono is a "True Believer" or a Conservative Christian or thinks that Hindus are totally screwed when they die. you're taking your own understanding of the Bible and shaping Bono's words to fit that. i'm not saying you're right or wrong, but i am saying that you've got to be very careful not to conflate your own (highly contestable) beliefs with Bono's beliefs, and also to recognize that there are many people out there who might very well disagree with you on what it means to be a "True Believer" or even that such a title has any meaning at all, and my guess is that Bono would be one of those people who would object to such a label. your interpretations are no better, and no worse, than anyone else's -- debate them, please, and discuss and learn and share, but don't assume you hold truth and other's don't.

Christians haven't been "killing people for 2000 years." I find that statement offensive and misinformed. Haven't you heard "Thou shalt not kill"? The New Testament says that if you witness to someone and they don't listen, then it's their own fault and you should just leave them be; it doesn't say to kill anyone, and anyone who does kill in the name of Christianity is very wrong and is not following Christ at all.

As for Jesus being the only way, Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by me." If you go by the "Liar, Lunatic, or Lord" argument that Bono uses (and borrows from C.S. Lewis) in Bono in Conversation, then you can find your own conclusion. As for exclusivity, of course it is; why believe in something if you don't believe it's the best answer? And why would Jesus sacrifice Himself for our sins if there were so many other ways?

I know this is an old thread and an old post, but I just happened to see it and felt like saying something.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Christians haven't been "killing people for 2000 years." I find that statement offensive and misinformed. Haven't you heard "Thou shalt not kill"? The New Testament says that if you witness to someone and they don't listen, then it's their own fault and you should just leave them be; it doesn't say to kill anyone, and anyone who does kill in the name of Christianity is very wrong and is not following Christ at all.

As for Jesus being the only way, Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by me." If you go by the "Liar, Lunatic, or Lord" argument that Bono uses (and borrows from C.S. Lewis) in Bono in Conversation, then you can find your own conclusion. As for exclusivity, of course it is; why believe in something if you don't believe it's the best answer? And why would Jesus sacrifice Himself for our sins if there were so many other ways?

I know this is an old thread and an old post, but I just happened to see it and felt like saying something.

I agree with everything you say. Jesus is either "the way" to God or "no way" to God at all. The crucifixion makes that plain:

(1) Like you said, if there are other ways to God, why would Christ have willingly gone through sheer torture and crucifixion?

(2) If he didn't go through them willingly, then they were forced upon him; he couldn't have stopped it. And if he couldn't have stopped it, he couldn't be the Son Of God, could he?

I happen to believe that he IS the Son Of God and therefore is the only way to God.

 

[hand0lotion]

I just checked online for a bit of "Bono: In Conversation" as well because I don't own it yet If anyone has it, and a scanner and could scan page 64 that would be great. Anyway, on this page, Bono is asked if Adam is a Believer now, and he said "Yes, Adam was on a path that took him further into the world, but right now I would say he's the most spiritually centered person in the band." Assayas then asks something along the lines of "because of his rough path?" and Bono said "Yes, he's the most watchful of sheep that stray out of the herd." He then talks about how brilliant it was for Jesus to refer to mankind as sheep and gives an explanation why. In "U2 by U2" he says something similar but uses "assembled gathering" as opposed to mankind

Aww nuts, after page 2, this thread got steered into a Bono thread.

Anyway, here's a Vertigo tour interview where Dianne Sawyer quotes back to Adam what Bono said about him being "the most watchful of sheep that stray out of the herd."

Adam's response is hilarious! He looks surprised and calls it "strange language to use" while Bono is sitting beside him grinning!!! This is why I love my band

U2 - Short interview (2005) - YouTube 2:45 mark

 

[hand0lotion]

Probably nobody looks here in after such a long time, but I found this in one interview and thought why don't post it:
(about Adam)
"And yet, while he does "have difficulty with the way (spirituality) can be portrayed sometimes," he also believes what his lead singer has said about the Elevation Tour: God is in the house.

"I don't quite know what it is...but I definitely know when it's there. It doesn't happen every night, but some nights there's a sense of community and fellowship. And people have said there's a spiritual aspect to what's happening in the house."

Thank you! Seems like Adam is aware of the nice things kind fans in the pit do for each other! I think he pays most attention to the crowd out of the 4

 

[Dfit00]

Not really sure on what kind of faith he believes in, but I will always admire the fact that he waited until his 50's to be a father and take that responsibility.

That alone is a sign that he believes in low-key commitment, indulgence, and the good life.

 

[hand0lotion]

^ I don't think he explicitly chose to be a father...

 

[Meg]

Bit of a dead thread but since it seems folks don't mind reviving them I'll put in my two cents as I find this a fond discussion.

The trance-like state while playing, and eternal smiling are dead giveaways. Plus the loose-fitting, almost pyjama-type stage clothes...that's like totally Buddhist.

One must also consider that one may be both a Buddhist and a Christian, as the Buddhist "faith" is more a tradition, a lifestyle, rather than a dogmatic religion as the Christian populace would know it. Furthermore, a trance like state while playing can be indicative of meditative thought, concentration, and professionalism rather than simply a gesture of the tradition of the Buddha. Loose fitting clothes is a choice not necessarily tied to any faith of which I am aware. And smiling, shucks who wouldn't smile in such a stead as he? Smiling is the best medicine no?

Being a believer does tend to lean towards the Christian faiths but it also might take in other Religions of the Book too. But I tend to lean towards the fact that he believes in himself. When Bono spoke up and said that Adam was a believer too in Flanagan's account it certainly leans credence to him being Christian, perhaps not in practice but certainly in upbringing and cultural morays. Now if he follows them or not, well that is up to personal speculation, teehee.