The Divinity of Jesus

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I agree with DebbieSG. Years ago, I stopped believing in "duality", the concept that Christians have 2 natures - one the sin nature and one the Holy Spirit and that these 2 fight each other. The Bible makes it clear in Romans, Galatians, 2 Corinthians and other places that when a person becomes a Christian, the sin nature is crucified - it is destroyed. In its place is the nature of Christ, the Holy Spirit. From that point on, the struggle is between the spirit and the flesh (which is neither evil or good, but can be used for God or Satan, depending on whom the Christian chooses to obey), not between 2 natures. The whole idea that Christians are fighting a civil war within themselves is very desztructive to the Christian who wants to live a victorious Christian life. If a person thinks it is "in his nature" to do wrong, he will lose many temptation battles, because he thinks he is fighting himself. There is a very good book about this, called "Lifetime Guarantee" by Bill Gillham. I also wrote an essay about it, if anyone is interested.
 
Thanks for asking, Foray. I hope this makes my beliefes clear. The first part is by me, but it ends with a little bit by Bill Gillham.



Hello, fellow Christian,

I longed to do what was right, but failed very often. And that made me feel guilty, and it made me feel like a wretch in God?s eyes. No matter how hard I tried, there were certain sins I just couldn?t put away. This went on for years and years. Then, over a period of years, I woke up to some Biblical truths that I had never fully grasped on to.

First, God loves you and will continue to love you. Man can?t earn his salvation by works, and man can?t earn God?s love by works. Salvation and God?s love are free gifts..ours for the taking. Nothing we can do will add to these gifts. Christ loves you enough to die for him ? how?s that for the greatest love ever?

But I don?t think it?s enough to just say the above things to you. You?ve probably heard them all. I had heard them all, but everytime I sinned, those things conveniently left my mind, and guilt and shame made me very depressed. Nope, I think you actually need someone to tell you about victory in Jesus, and how it affects your own life and walk with Christ.

The key to what I am about to share is found in who we are in Christ.

And who are we in Christ? The Bible makes it clear. We are/have:

1)Born again.......................John 3:3
2) New Creatures.................2 Corinthians 5:17
3) The mind of Christ............Philippians 2:15
4) Believers.........................John 2:22
5) The Sons of God..............John 1:12
6) Anointed..........................2 Corinthians 1:21
7) Baptized..........................1 Corinthians 12:13
8) His Body..........................Ephesians 1:23
9) Spiritually Circumsized......Colossians 2:11
10) Dead to self.....................Colossians 3:3

Sounds very different from those who are not Christians, right? That?s because we are different from what we were before we became Christians. I think a very important thing mentioned above is the concept of ?new creation? in 2 Corinthians 5:17:

?Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; he is a new creation?.

A new creation. A brand new creation. What exactly does this mean? Well first, it means that in a Christian, the sin nature (the wicked spirit that lives in people that drives them to commit sin, and to rebel against God - Eph. 2:1 and 3) has been crucified. It is dead, dead, dead:

"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me" (Gal. 2:20).

?Our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. (Romans 6:6)

?Don?t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old evil nature and all its wicked deeds.? (Colossians 3:9)

Because the sin nature is dead for a Christian, Christians are not slaves to sin, nor under the power of sin:

?We are no longer slaves to sin, for when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin.? (Romans 6:6-7)

So, when the sin nature is crucified, the Holy Spirit moves in. He is our new nature; the nature of Christ. He is who we really are now. Just as our sin nature had driven and urged us to rebel against God, our new nature, the Holy Spirit, drives us and urges us to ?walk in the Spirit?, to do what is right in God?s sight, and to live for him.

?In its place you have clothed yourselves with a brand-new nature that is continually being renewed as you learn more and more about Christ, who created this new nature within you.? (Colossians 3:10)

This is where the problem is for many Christians. Many Christians, while believing the Holy Spirit has moved in, also believe the sin nature is still alive. So, they believe there is an inner conflict going on inside a person, between the sin nature (which wants us to do evil), and the Holy Spirit (which wants us to be holy). Many of these Christians point to Romans chapters 6 through 8 as prooof of this, and then they say ?even Paul struggled with himself?.

But, that is not true. The struggle in a Christian is not between 2 natures living within him/her. The struggle Paul was describing was between his new nature vs. his flesh (his body, his skin, brain), etc. He even says ?I do what I do not want to do?. Notice the word ?want? right there. That tells us that what Paul really wants to do is serve God. If he had meant that there were 2 natures within him, and one wanted to serve God and the other didn?t, he would have said ?I do what my sin nature wants me to do, not what my new nature wants me to do?. The flesh is tempted by Satan, not by some sin nature within a Christian. The NIV uses the words ?sin nature? in these chapters of the Bible, but I believe with all my heart that is a mistranslation, because otherwise it wouldn?t jive with the rest of scripture, which tells us the sin nature is dead. The King James, New King James, and other translations correctly use the word ?flesh?.

The reason so many people lose the temptation battles and fall with the same sin again and again and again is because they think they are fighting themselves. If they have to fight themselves for the rest of their lives, if it is truly a struggle between 2 natures, that makes it hard to win on a consistent basis because, quite frankly, you feel like half of you is a wretch, and that?s not very conducive to winning the battle.

So that begs the question: How can a Christian sin if he doesn?t have a sin nature? Simply put, because he?s still got corrupted flesh and a brain and thought processes that are easily deceived. How does he start thinking that he?s still got two natures, and that he?s a wretch and he?ll never be able to completely overcome his sin habits? Well, Satan and the demons are hard at work, whispering in people?s ears?telling them lies. Heck, they?ve even been telling certain preachers the same lies for years, and then they spread the lies to their congregations.

Here?s a typical scenario, in which a demon tempts a Christian to be envious and jealous:

Demon (whispering): Wow, look at Julie. She?s so popular. Everyone is her friend. And look at all that money her parents have. Just think about all the things you could do with that money ? all the things you could buy. You deserve what she?s got more than she does. She?s a jerk. You just hate her, don?t you? Hey, don?t feel bad ? you?re just human. It?s not wrong to feel this way. Wait, on second thought, it is wrong. You?re a wretch. God will hate you for this. But no, he won?t because he understands that this battle you?re fighting with your sin nature is too hard to overcome all the time. You can?t stand up for God all the time ? it?s just too difficult. Go ahead, indulge your sin nature. Don?t give her the time of day. Be rude to her?that will show her!

Christian: You know, she is a jerk! I don?t want to sin, but you know, I am only human. This constant battle with my sin nature is just too difficult to win all the time. God can?t expect that. I?m just a sinner. What a wretch I am. Oh man, I do deserve those things more than her. I?d like to take all her money away right now?oh just imagin the things I could do with her money and popularity!

End of scenario.

The Christian dwells on the thoughts and hatred begins to form. Tomorrow, she may win the temptation battle and feel great and victorious. But next week, she is jealous again and feels guilty and feels like a useless wretch. What a shame.

But it doesn?t have to be that way. Let?s look at the same Christian again, but it?s a year later, and she understands who she is in Christ now:

Demon (whispering): Wow, look at Julie. She?s so popular. Everyone is her friend. And look at all that money her parents have. Just think about all the things you could do with that money ? all the things you could buy. You deserve what she?s got more than she does. She?s a jerk. You just hate her, don?t you? Hey, don?t feel bad ? you?re just human. It?s not wrong to feel this way. Wait, on second thought, it is wrong. You?re a wretch. God will hate you for this. But no, he won?t because he understands that this battle you?re fighting with your sin nature is too hard to overcome all the time. You can?t stand up for God all the time ? it?s just too difficult. Go ahead, indulge your sin nature. Don?t give her the time of day. Be rude to her?that will show her!

Christian (after the first thought): Wait a minute?this isn?t my thought, for my sin nature is dead, and the Holy Spirit lives within me. 2nd Corinthians 5:17 says ?Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; he is a new creation?. I don?t have to sin, because Romans 6:6 says ?Our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin.? Aha, this thought is Satan?s. he wants me to think it?s my thought. I won?t dwell on this thought ? I will put it out of my mind; I will not commit this sin. Oh Lord, I praise you that I am a new creation; created to serve you and be holy. I am thankful to you that I have the Holy Spirit within me to live holy through me. Thanks you for your grace and mercy, Lord. I love you. (more praise and worship follows)

End scenario.

At that point, she?s won that temptation battle and he goes on and doesn?t dwell on the thought and doesn?t sin. She knows who she is in Christ Jesus. She replaces the thought from Satan with her own praise and worship for the Father. Soon, this becomes a habit, and she is no longer on a roller coaster Christian experience. That doesn?t mean she will never sin again, because she just might accept Satan?s lie every once in a while. But now that she knows the truth, she won?t fail nearly as much, and she will walk in the Spirit.

I?ve gone both roads. I used to think I was trapped in a lifelong battle between 2 natures living within me. But now, I know that?s a lie, and I live in the victory Christ won for us at the Cross, when he destroyed sin and death. I?m not saying my flesh is perfect. I do still sin, but not near as much, and I have put certain sin habits away that I was never able to put away before. I feel alive and victorious, thank the Lord Jesus Christ!

I hope that God has used these words to help you. They sure helped me when others told me. I hated that guilty life. I enjoy my Christian walk now.

Here?s something I found on the internet recently, by Dr. Bill Gillham, that describes the subject perfectly:

Do Christians Still Have a Sin Nature?

?The King is Dead! Long Live the King!? When I was a kid, I heard a Shakespearean actor in a film make such a statement and was thoroughly confused. How could the king be dead but alive at the same time? Little did I know that he was talking about two different people! Indeed, the former king had died and was no longer king?he had ceased to exist! But the new king, who could never have emerged as king had the old king not died, lives indeed! So long as the old king remained alive, the new king could not be born. But after the one?s birth as the new king, the old king could never again resurrect himself because he had no capability for self-resurrection! The very existence of the one precludes the existence of the other and vice versa! They cannot jump in and out of the grave, womb, grave, womb, etc.

The analogy is obvious to those who understand the believer?s identification with Christ in His death and resurrection. The old man has indeed died (Romans 6:6, etc.) and the new man has indeed been generated by the Holy Spirit (Colossians 3:10, etc.). But, unfortunately, the pervasive position taken by most Christian leaders is that the old man is still alive and well within the believer?that sinful performance gives daily testimony to this as fact. The old man is seen to leap in and out of the tomb many times during the typical day. However, one seldom hears a teacher claim that the new man leaps in and out of the womb, but most never see that the very existence of either precludes the existence of its opposite! The two can?t coexist any more than the two kings can! It was the death of the old man, which enabled the new man to be born! It is impossible for the new man to exist until the old man has died and the old man cannot resurrect himself. There is but One Life Who has such resurrection power?the Life of Christ!

Galatians 5:17 says that the flesh lusts against the spirit and vice versa and there is obviously a war going on inside of every Christian, but it?s not the old man versus the new man doing battle. Those cannot exist simultaneously. The Greek word interpreted flesh in all pertinent New Testament verses refers to the body?the physical body with its frailties and vulnerability (to sin). Romans 7:20 speaks of the POWER OF INDWELLING SIN (not the sin nature) working in man to produce undesirable (sinful) behavior. The power of sin simply deceives the Christian by masquerading as the old man, suggesting (deceiving) to the will that a choice be made to perform according to the old self-serving patterns programmed in previously. This is referred to as walking after the flesh. Satan could never deceive a Christian with a direct approach
as a little man in red underwear. He must disguise himself if he is to have any hope of victory. There is one way and one way only to accomplish this deception and that is to masquerade in the thought life of the Christian posing as his unique version of the old man! The na?ve Christian will believe he, himself, is generating the unchristian suggestion and thus direct his defensive efforts against the wrong foe?what he perceives to be a darker side of himself! He fires all his bullets at a shadow! This is the explanation for the frustration depicted in Romans 7:15 ? why do I do the very thing I hate? Why can I get no victory?

For many years it appeared to me that to adopt the posture that the sin nature was crucified in Christ (2 Cor. 5:2-10) would be rationalizing and excusing the Christian?s sinful performance. It seemed more logical to believe that Christians all have a sin nature against which the new man constantly must do battle. It would also appear that this is the noble, the more conservative, the more Spartan posture, and that to believe otherwise would be to fly in the fact of personal experience as well as God?s Word. While subscribing to this view I was blocked from recognizing the truth of Rom. 7:20 cited previously. Though it would appear that
the ?two-natures? view places the greater responsibility for poor performance squarely on the Christian and that the ?one-nature? view is a cop out, the opposite is actually true! So long as one embraces the former he is constantly deceived into believing his failure is just standard Christian experience. As Scofield said (paraphrased), This is not standard Christian experience, it?s the standard experience of most Christians, the tragic result of faulty discipling. Once the Christian enters into identification with Christ?s death, resurrection and ascension, claiming he no longer has two natures, but is now the righteousness of God in Christ and holy and blameless in His sight, he is without excuse when he sins, because he knows what it is to possess the Life which overcomes on a moment-by-moment basis. He is discerning of how sin is able to deceive him by masquerading a the extinct ixold man, hoping the Christian will take the bait, believe that the old man has generated this impulse or thought and end up doing the very thing he hates. (Rom. 7:15-20). In reality, it is accepted as fact that Christians no longer have a sin nature that places one squarely on the hook and totally responsible to choose, moment-by-moment, against the wooings, deceptions and accusations of indwelling sin working through the flesh. We know that our old (unrenewed) self was nailed to the cross (Note: this isn?t just our sins that Christ paid for on the cross, although PTL for that blessed truth, but that the old ?you? died there, too, with Him in order that (our) body, (which is the instrument of) sin, might be made ineffective and inactive for evil, that we might no longer be slaves of sin. (Romans 6:6 Amplified)

Indwelling sin deceives the ?two-natures? believer into rationalizing, ?I?m just human. I just fail a lot and God understands it?s just my old sin nature that got the better of me.? This is the true cop out position! Such believers often have Romans 7:15 underlined as evidence that their experience is the normal Christian life, when it is, in fact, wandering in the aimless circles of the wilderness with Canaan just a promise away.

Awake sleeper! The king is dead! Long live the King!

This article, by Dr. Bill Gillham, is a reproduction from our Ministry Letter dated Jan-Feb, 1980.
This article may be copied and distributed if copyright is properly attributed and no profit is accrued.

?1980 Gillham Ministries, Inc., Fort Worth, TX
?2000 Lifetime Guarantee, Inc., 3333 Winthrop Avenue, Fort Worth, TX 76116

http://www.gospelcom.net/lifetime/equipped/bonus/xian_sin_nature.pdf
 
Wasn't Jesus that Jewish carpenter guy who eventually got crucified?

Beyond that - I am not sure what he became.















(read with extreme sarcasm please...)
 
i haven't posted here in...an extremely long time, but i've done a lot of sould searching the past few months and would like to share my opinion on this topic.

Jesus is a member of the single spirit family of God, presently consisting of God the Father and God the Son. Both have existed eternally and use their Holy Spirit as a tool to work in our realm. The Father's will is accomplished by Christ through the Holy Spirit [an impersonal divine power, not the third member of a trinity]. Christ was fully God, emptied himself to become fully man, and is once again fully God. The opening passage of John's gospel makes it clear that while Jesus is God, there is some sort of seperation between Christ and the Father (the Father remaining supreme). Jesus spoke to Moses at the burning bush, breathed life into Adam, and carved the 10 commandments. Christ is, was, and forever will be the Messiah as promised in the Old Testament, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the great I AM.
 
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