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Old 04-04-2003, 09:13 AM   #1
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Searching for faith

My whole family belongs to christianity.
History showed us that the church is able to do unmerciful thing which aren't to justify! To mention just two Inquisition and the crusades.

It is false enforce people your belief. Another thing I just read recently in an article was that the Vatican is against the use of condoms even in developing countries. If you think about the consequences for the aids epidemic in South Africa.

This are a few reasons why I don't like the church.

But I believe there is a god and I think there has to be a truth in something that survived that long.

Religion has always been important for whole peoples but it was also a cause for wars and another point to complain about for intolerant people and to be honest there are enough of them.

So I'm still searching for my faith...
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Old 04-04-2003, 02:20 PM   #2
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Many are searching.

I am a Christian too, which doesnīt mean I agree with the Vatican. There are a few other scandals you probably havenīt heard of, lol... the Vatican doing deals with a Bank of Mafiosi, for example.

We also have to remember many Christians do a lot of good in the world. Thereīs such a lot of development projects. There are Christian priests who get killed in South America because they teach people to read and to think for themselves.

It is a world religion, and I am not content with the official opinion of the Catholic Church. It is true that religion canīt be enforced.

If we open our eyes and take a look, we can see so many religions, and most of them have good and bad sides. It is upon every person to live and believe in what she thinks is right. You can make countless combinations, my approach is One Love.

You know, one time I was talking to an African about the same thing. I said "Wow for the religious concepts you have, the connection to family, you must surely love your religion" and he said "Yes and what about you". "Well I am aware of the mistakes the Christians made in the past... I mean, look at colonization f.e., it was supported by high members of the Catholic Church" and so on,... he smiled and replied "But you have to love your religion. Those are your roots, it is the religion of your fathers and elders".

Taught me a lot. Still, I despise many of the Vaticans "policies". On the other hand, there is a lot of great things to find. Jesusī Sermon On The Mount is just a brilliant example. If the majority of Christian believers would concentrate on living this Sermon in everyday life, the world might be a little less sad.

Many are searching...
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Old 04-04-2003, 02:31 PM   #3
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listen, hiphop...i am not replying to this for any personal reason. i read what you wrote and i just felt compelled to respond. christianity and the vatican are two entirely different things. one has nothing to do with the other. i was raised in a very strict christian church and i know plenty about christianity. these are things that you and i have never discussed before, i realize that. but it is a huge part of who i am. remember once we had a discussion on god? the church i was raised in is where my point of view came from. it is a negative view, and i know how you feel about god, so i stayed silent. anyway...please don't confuse the two. christianity and catholicism are two entirely different religions.
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Old 04-04-2003, 04:46 PM   #4
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My statement goes somewhat into bonogirls direction:

don't mix up God and Chuch, they have not much incommon.

The one thing is the truth and the other one is sometimes a f***ed up perversion done by humans.

Sometimes you have to leave the church to find your faith - maybe you'll find another church on your way, but never ever expect the church to be perfect,.

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Old 04-04-2003, 05:39 PM   #5
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Despite my very large rant against the Vatican in FYM a few minutes ago...

I don't think one should abandon their faith merely due to the actions of people within a religion. Even though clergy might like to craft themselves as being a step above man and a step below God, they are just men like us. So what to do? In your heart, you know the answer. Tradition has put the apex of morality on our consciences; that our conscience supercedes all other sources of morality, whether it be what clergy tells you or what the Bible says even. St. Thomas Aquinas even went as far as to say that you should always follow your conscience, even if what you believe will warrant your excommunication. Strong words considering the time it was written.

My conscience may have driven me away from the institutional church, but my faith in God is as strong as ever. Keep this in mind, and, I think, you'll find your way.

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Old 04-04-2003, 05:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus

don't mix up God and Chuch, they have not much incommon.
I beg to differ. Everyone has to decide for himself if God and the Church have a lot in common.

What I call God, has neither that much to do with the Catholic Church nor with Christianity. But I value the principles of Christianity a lot, too.

Klaus, when you say God and the Church have not much in common, this may be right for you, but it may not be right for millions of faithful people who go to church every sunday. Thats not me - but I respect their deep belief, too.

And right, melon, St. Thomas Aquin was great.
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Old 04-04-2003, 06:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
My statement goes somewhat into bonogirls direction:

don't mix up God and Chuch, they have not much incommon.
thank you. i agree. i left my church because there were more hypocrites in those pews than anywhere else i've ever been in my life.
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Old 04-05-2003, 12:25 PM   #8
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whenhiphopdrovethebigcars:

i respect other views and wouldn't call my posting the only thruth, it's just somthing to think about.
Of course they talk about God in church but what they say there is not "the word of god" - just humans who talk about god. This might be good for some, bad for others - but noone should ever think that it's the word of god, just because some priest said his opinion inside the church.
Of course there are good churches out there also, it has nothing to do with the confession more with the people..

bonosgirl84:
Yes, my first church experiences weren't better than yours, i'm just thinking about if i have the power to change that. I'm still worried about this idea and i'm unsure if i should do that step.

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Old 04-05-2003, 01:56 PM   #9
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To freeyourmind's original question: I would encourage your own time of reading the Bible and talking with some trusted individuals with questions of faith (or post them here).

Regarding the discussion of "church" I think we are mixing two concepts. One is the institution that tells you what to believe, the other is a place where fellow believers join together in worship, study and service.

While I attend a fairly traditional congregation, matters of faith are a two way street. Our pastor regularly hears from the congregation regarding teaching, interpretation or application of Scripture.

I caution against abandoning corporate worship altogether as I find my walk is stronger when I have the accountability of regular meetings.

Again, please post any other thoughts questions or concerns. As you can see, there is a breadth of knowledge and experience in this forum.
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Old 04-05-2003, 03:15 PM   #10
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nbcrusader:

Quote:
Regarding the discussion of "church" I think we are mixing two concepts. One is the institution that tells you what to believe, the other is a place where fellow believers join together in worship, study and service.
exactly thanks
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Old 04-13-2003, 04:24 PM   #11
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Maybe I expressed myself in a false way. It is my opinion too that you can't mix up church and god.

What I wanted to say is that I don't think I'm able to find my faith in a church.

I really want to thank you for your advice anyway...
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Old 04-13-2003, 05:30 PM   #12
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freeyourmind, I would just like to let you know about a place that I have been staying at in Switzerland for the last few months that you might be interested in. people come here for a lot of reasons, but most of us come here because we are in exactly your situation. I've been able to really think through, discuss, ask any questions (no holds barred) and find out the difference between the "christianity" that I have experienced in Church and the one that that is a living faith. Anyways, just wanted to drop that suggestion. www.labri.com
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Old 04-13-2003, 06:38 PM   #13
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freeyourmind:

if you can't find it in a church, you could try to read the bible yourself and find your personal way.

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Old 04-14-2003, 04:55 AM   #14
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thank you very much for your advice
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Old 04-14-2003, 02:32 PM   #15
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One definition of church is the "body of Christ". The "body of Christ" is the unity of all Christians.

I myself find many problems with the church as an institution. Not the people in the church, but the fact that many churches are run as corporation rather than as temples of the Lord. One person said they don't go to the church because of "hypocrites". That's not one of my reasons. The way I see it, hypocrites are everywhere - you can't avoid them.

That said, I do think it is important to worship and praise God with other believers. Theer is indeed strength in something like that. Does it HAVE to be a church building? Nope. Mayeb it's 2 or 3 people gathered in a home.

But I think the real important question here (Christian speaking) is "Do you have a personal relationship with Christ? Have you put your faith in his sacrifice and resurrection, asked forgiveness for sins and made a decision to let him live in you?" To me those questions are much more important than what church to go to. Those are the basics fo faith. Everything else is icing on the cake.
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Old 04-14-2003, 04:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


That said, I do think it is important to worship and praise God with other believers. Theer is indeed strength in something like that. Does it HAVE to be a church building? Nope. Mayeb it's 2 or 3 people gathered in a home.


I agree with you on that
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