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Old 02-24-2004, 03:08 AM   #1
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Religious discussion in this forum. please read.

This is a general discussion area about U2 and their faith as found in their lyrics, their own words, as well as books written by others on this subject of their spirituality.

If you wish to discuss or debate religion, please use the 'Free Your Mind' forum.

Thanks.
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Old 02-24-2004, 12:54 PM   #2
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maybe we should just have a religion forum. I mean, there are specific forums dedicated to the war, or sports...why not religion?
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Old 02-24-2004, 01:07 PM   #3
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Agreed. We have gotten off track from the original intent of this forum, but there seems to be a good deal of interest in discussing religion (without the contentious nature of FYM).
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Old 02-24-2004, 04:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Agreed. We have gotten off track from the original intent of this forum, but there seems to be a good deal of interest in discussing religion (without the contentious nature of FYM).
Very true. I love reading this forum because I can learn about other people's thoughts about religion without the sort of arguments that occur in FYM. I'm always afraid to post any thoughts or questions about religion in FYM because I'm not at all knowledgeable about the subject and I always end up feeling stupid when people point out all the flaws in my arguments. (And before anyone says it, I know I've probably made someone else feel like that about politics before now, but having realised how it feels to be on the other side of it, I'm really trying to be a little more "friendly" now. )
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:19 PM   #5
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Well, I think this forum is very limited if it's restricted to just discussion of U2 and their faith, etc, but I do have to say that is sure seems that recently many posts in here were "bashing" religion, Christianity, etc... in a way that I felt was generalizing, not responding to a particular topic.

This forum was never like that previously, and that's why I liked it. Before anyone thinks or says otherwise, I'm not saying of course that people aren't entitled to feel that way. And if that is going to be allowed in this forum, so be it I suppose It's not for me to say, but that's just my worthless .02. My interpretation of the guidelines was that critiques of religion should be in FYM, but maybe that was wrong on my part.
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Old 02-24-2004, 09:58 PM   #6
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Unfortunately I've seen a lot of preaching/crusading like behavior in this forum, and I do not intend to have any forum for a specific religion.

We don't have a democrat or republican forum do we? We never will... that's not the purpose of Interference.com.

I don't mind religion being discussed, but this is not a place of worship.

I'm open to suggestions, but religion is a touchy subject and I will be very honest with saying that if any forum here is to be dedicated to religion speciifcally, it will have very strict rules.
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:23 PM   #7
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We aren't asking for a forum dedicated to a specific religion. Of course religion in general is a touchy subject, but so is homosexuality, the war, race relations, etc, etc.

Besides, posting religious topics in FYM doesn't get much religious debate on the actual posted topic, it turns into a debate about religion in general and whether or not certain issues have anything to do with religion.
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


I love reading this forum because I can learn about other people's thoughts about religion without the sort of arguments that occur in FYM. I'm always afraid to post any thoughts or questions about religion in FYM because I'm not at all knowledgeable about the subject and I always end up feeling stupid when people point out all the flaws in my arguments.
So ture. Most of my beliefs about FYM-esque topics are in some way influenced by religion, but I've been knocked because of my religious beliefs so many times in FYM I hardly post anymore. I feel a lot more confident in this forum.
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:28 PM   #9
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Also, FYM is so fast-paced, threads drop off the page in a day or two. Here though, they stick around and we can acutally complete a discussion. Take my Church thread for example, now it's moved to FYM and no one there even cares about it. It'll drop off the page if it hasn't already, where as before, I could check here and see if there were new replies.
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Old 02-25-2004, 12:33 AM   #10
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Maybe religion IS too touchy a subject for a forum by itself. There are some who tend to think this forum belongs to one group exclusively. It's tended to steer towards that group and the issues of that group.

I don't think religion can be discussed without problems, especially in a somewhat anonymous forum, where real time conversations are out of the question. The discussions in here become contentious when those who are out of the mainstream attempt to enter into the discussions, asking questions and offering a differing viewpoint. Sure, sometimes challenges are made (insert innocent face here), but they're in reponse to blanket statements made by those in the majority.
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Old 02-25-2004, 04:17 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
There are some who tend to think this forum belongs to one group exclusively. It's tended to steer towards that group and the issues of that group.
I don't think it's that people think this forum is only for the discussion of Christian beliefs, it's just that most of the people who post here (this forum specifically, not Interference as a whole) are Christians and so the discussions naturally tends to focus on this religion. It's not that people of other faiths aren't welcome, it's just that very few of them post. In fact the same is true of FYM: how often have we had a discussion about Judaism or Islam (other than the usual "are all Muslims terrorists?" debate )?

Besides, this forum is for discussion about "U2 and their faith as found in their lyrics, their own words, as well as books written by others on this subject of their spirituality." Well, I don't think it's hugely controversial to say that many of the references in U2 songs are to Christianity specifically, or that much of what is written about U2's faith is from a Christian perspective. Given this, it's hardly suprising that most of the discussions here are focused on Christianity.

Of course people of all religions and no religion should be welcome in this forum or any other forum dedicated to discussion of religion, but you can't force discussion of other religions if there isn't an interest in it.
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Old 02-25-2004, 07:18 AM   #12
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Topics become very confused in FYM when religion is involved because quite often the thread is related to another issue all together and the politics or sociology of the other issue merge and blend and it becomes a religious war.
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:40 AM   #13
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Yes, I'm well aware that this is not a place of worship. So is stating your beliefs "preaching and crusading" ? Sorry, but I just haven't seen much of that here..honestly the most "preaching" I've seen is from people w/ opposing views. I don't honestly believed I've ever "preached" to anyone.

Nevermind, I wish I never said anything about this
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Old 02-25-2004, 09:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Topics become very confused in FYM when religion is involved because quite often the thread is related to another issue all together and the politics or sociology of the other issue merge and blend and it becomes a religious war.
exactly.
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Old 02-25-2004, 09:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees

I don't think it's that people think this forum is only for the discussion of Christian beliefs, it's just that most of the people who post here (this forum specifically, not Interference as a whole) are Christians and so the discussions naturally tends to focus on this religion. It's not that people of other faiths aren't welcome, it's just that very few of them post.
We try, now and again.


Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees

Besides, this forum is for discussion about "U2 and their faith as found in their lyrics, their own words, as well as books written by others on this subject of their spirituality." Well, I don't think it's hugely controversial to say that many of the references in U2 songs are to Christianity specifically, or that much of what is written about U2's faith is from a Christian perspective. Given this, it's hardly suprising that most of the discussions here are focused on Christianity.
I was expecting this. The discussions where people give non-Christians the most trouble are those in here that have nothing to do with music. At times, even the music related threads become problematic for those who are not Christian.



Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees

but you can't force discussion of other religions if there isn't an interest in it.
This kind of proves my point. "Forcing" a discussion isn't what I'm talking about. Joining in with intelligent commentary is what I mean.
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Old 02-25-2004, 10:03 AM   #16
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Yes, I'm well aware that this is not a place of worship. So is stating your beliefs "preaching and crusading" ? Sorry, but I just haven't seen much of that here..honestly the most "preaching" I've seen is from people w/ opposing views. I don't honestly believed I've ever "preached" to anyone.

Nevermind, I wish I never said anything about this

I wasnt pointing at any one person when I made that comment. I spent some time reading this forum, which I admittedly normally do not, and I got an overall feeling of the forum being VERY distant from what I originally intended.

Although anyone is welcome in this forum, and any topic may be brought up as someone stated... from what I read, most non-christians would feel incredibly uncomfortable posting in here.

To be honest, even I felt uncomfortable in here - and not because I'm not christian. Anytime there is too much bias towards one religion or political view... it's going to make someone uncomfortable... and that is NOT the intention of Interference.

While you may be able to give me an example of someone thats uncomfy in any of the forums..... I specifically pay attention to the ones dealing with politics and religion.
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Old 02-25-2004, 11:04 AM   #17
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Well, I'd just like to say that I for one welcome the opinions of other faiths and beliefs here. I find that very interesting. But what makes ME uncomfortable are posts by people in here that generalize about ALL Christians. I am being honest when I say that there are posts of that ilk here.

I have respect for the views of others regarding any particular faith or religion in general, but I must say I am offended when I see statements like that (like the ones I referenced above). I never say anything about it in this forum though, so maybe that's why I feel the way I do. Those are the types of "blanket statements" that I see here more often than others.

I think it is the nature of the forum, like Fizzing stated, rather than anyone feeling that this forum "belongs to them". Sorry, but I just don't see that. Like I said, I find it interesting to read the views of others, whether I agree w/ them or not, but I think there is a fine line that is crossed on occasion.
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Old 02-25-2004, 11:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
Also, FYM is so fast-paced, threads drop off the page in a day or two. Here though, they stick around and we can acutally complete a discussion. Take my Church thread for example, now it's moved to FYM and no one there even cares about it. It'll drop off the page if it hasn't already, where as before, I could check here and see if there were new replies.
Maybe threads like the "Church" thread would be better in a FYM subforum.

I've always enjoyed the non-lyric discussions that took place in GIS. Given the varied backgrounds and beliefs, healthy discussion abounded. Personal attacks were non-existent.
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Old 02-25-2004, 11:35 AM   #19
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Your points about this being perhaps intimidating (my words, I know not yours) to some are valid though as Fizz pointed out, there might be hesitation for others to post in here as they are keeping in mind this is still technically (?) the forum for U2 related Christianity and spirituality etc. You're saying that Christianity or Buddhist regardless, doesn't belong in here. That's fine too.
Some might question if FYM is then the best place for talk on religion in general. As it stands now, I think FYM is full enough with politics and sociological issues. To add religion will be putting a topic which is currently (while limited in denomination) enjoying no flaming or fighting into a hot pot where debate and fighting with words is the norm. It seems there is a big enough call for it, if you decide it is ok to rename and arrange this to encompass all denominations. If you decide to continue without this suggestion, I think FYM will only suffer the increased pressure so to speak. I'm making this sound overly dramatic probably, but even as it all is now, religion is suffering a beating in FYM anyway. Take the topic of gay marriage. Religion will inevitably come up, its never not going to. Put in place religion as a key aspect of FYM and we are going to see more of the blurring so topics such as that are nothing more than trying to prove how wrong someone's beliefs are. I myself said something along the lines of basing a law on religion was bullshit. It was not a comment on religion or what anyone believes in as being right or wrong. That is not what I was calling BS, it was the topic itself. I get the feeling there was offence taken to it and I'm not even going to start on telling people where they were misguided or misunderstood because religion is never about that. I can't say it, and certainly could never moderate it. Faith is not like politics where black and white is possible even amongst the most contrasting of views. It is simply easier to work with the cases where religion crops up now, than adding it to fire which is FYM.

I think this is horribly convoluted now...but basically, I'd like to suggest keeping FYM as it is and perhaps seeing how a general religion even sub forum goes. Adapt this one to fit.
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Old 02-25-2004, 11:37 AM   #20
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** the above was started after Elvis's reply, but 2 have said something in the meantime so it may make even less sense now lol..
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