Religious discussion in this forum. please read.

[Elvis]

This is a general discussion area about U2 and their faith as found in their lyrics, their own words, as well as books written by others on this subject of their spirituality.

If you wish to discuss or debate religion, please use the 'Free Your Mind' forum.

Thanks.

 

[Liesje]

maybe we should just have a religion forum. I mean, there are specific forums dedicated to the war, or sports...why not religion?

 

[nbcrusader]

Agreed. We have gotten off track from the original intent of this forum, but there seems to be a good deal of interest in discussing religion (without the contentious nature of FYM).

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Agreed. We have gotten off track from the original intent of this forum, but there seems to be a good deal of interest in discussing religion (without the contentious nature of FYM).

Very true. I love reading this forum because I can learn about other people's thoughts about religion without the sort of arguments that occur in FYM. I'm always afraid to post any thoughts or questions about religion in FYM because I'm not at all knowledgeable about the subject and I always end up feeling stupid when people point out all the flaws in my arguments. (And before anyone says it, I know I've probably made someone else feel like that about politics before now, but having realised how it feels to be on the other side of it, I'm really trying to be a little more "friendly" now. )

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Well, I think this forum is very limited if it's restricted to just discussion of U2 and their faith, etc, but I do have to say that is sure seems that recently many posts in here were "bashing" religion, Christianity, etc... in a way that I felt was generalizing, not responding to a particular topic.

This forum was never like that previously, and that's why I liked it. Before anyone thinks or says otherwise, I'm not saying of course that people aren't entitled to feel that way. And if that is going to be allowed in this forum, so be it I suppose It's not for me to say, but that's just my worthless .02. My interpretation of the guidelines was that critiques of religion should be in FYM, but maybe that was wrong on my part.

 

[Elvis]

Unfortunately I've seen a lot of preaching/crusading like behavior in this forum, and I do not intend to have any forum for a specific religion.

We don't have a democrat or republican forum do we? We never will... that's not the purpose of Interference.com.

I don't mind religion being discussed, but this is not a place of worship.

I'm open to suggestions, but religion is a touchy subject and I will be very honest with saying that if any forum here is to be dedicated to religion speciifcally, it will have very strict rules.

 

[Liesje]

We aren't asking for a forum dedicated to a specific religion. Of course religion in general is a touchy subject, but so is homosexuality, the war, race relations, etc, etc.

Besides, posting religious topics in FYM doesn't get much religious debate on the actual posted topic, it turns into a debate about religion in general and whether or not certain issues have anything to do with religion.

 

[Liesje]

I love reading this forum because I can learn about other people's thoughts about religion without the sort of arguments that occur in FYM. I'm always afraid to post any thoughts or questions about religion in FYM because I'm not at all knowledgeable about the subject and I always end up feeling stupid when people point out all the flaws in my arguments.

So ture. Most of my beliefs about FYM-esque topics are in some way influenced by religion, but I've been knocked because of my religious beliefs so many times in FYM I hardly post anymore. I feel a lot more confident in this forum.

 

[Liesje]

Also, FYM is so fast-paced, threads drop off the page in a day or two. Here though, they stick around and we can acutally complete a discussion. Take my Church thread for example, now it's moved to FYM and no one there even cares about it. It'll drop off the page if it hasn't already, where as before, I could check here and see if there were new replies.

 

[martha]

Maybe religion IS too touchy a subject for a forum by itself. There are some who tend to think this forum belongs to one group exclusively. It's tended to steer towards that group and the issues of that group.

I don't think religion can be discussed without problems, especially in a somewhat anonymous forum, where real time conversations are out of the question. The discussions in here become contentious when those who are out of the mainstream attempt to enter into the discussions, asking questions and offering a differing viewpoint. Sure, sometimes challenges are made (insert innocent face here), but they're in reponse to blanket statements made by those in the majority.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

There are some who tend to think this forum belongs to one group exclusively. It's tended to steer towards that group and the issues of that group.

I don't think it's that people think this forum is only for the discussion of Christian beliefs, it's just that most of the people who post here (this forum specifically, not Interference as a whole) are Christians and so the discussions naturally tends to focus on this religion. It's not that people of other faiths aren't welcome, it's just that very few of them post. In fact the same is true of FYM: how often have we had a discussion about Judaism or Islam (other than the usual "are all Muslims terrorists?" debate )?

Besides, this forum is for discussion about "U2 and their faith as found in their lyrics, their own words, as well as books written by others on this subject of their spirituality." Well, I don't think it's hugely controversial to say that many of the references in U2 songs are to Christianity specifically, or that much of what is written about U2's faith is from a Christian perspective. Given this, it's hardly suprising that most of the discussions here are focused on Christianity.

Of course people of all religions and no religion should be welcome in this forum or any other forum dedicated to discussion of religion, but you can't force discussion of other religions if there isn't an interest in it.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Topics become very confused in FYM when religion is involved because quite often the thread is related to another issue all together and the politics or sociology of the other issue merge and blend and it becomes a religious war.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Yes, I'm well aware that this is not a place of worship. So is stating your beliefs "preaching and crusading" ? Sorry, but I just haven't seen much of that here..honestly the most "preaching" I've seen is from people w/ opposing views. I don't honestly believed I've ever "preached" to anyone.

Nevermind, I wish I never said anything about this

 

[Liesje]

Topics become very confused in FYM when religion is involved because quite often the thread is related to another issue all together and the politics or sociology of the other issue merge and blend and it becomes a religious war.

exactly.

 

[martha]

I don't think it's that people think this forum is only for the discussion of Christian beliefs, it's just that most of the people who post here (this forum specifically, not Interference as a whole) are Christians and so the discussions naturally tends to focus on this religion. It's not that people of other faiths aren't welcome, it's just that very few of them post.

We try, now and again.

Besides, this forum is for discussion about "U2 and their faith as found in their lyrics, their own words, as well as books written by others on this subject of their spirituality." Well, I don't think it's hugely controversial to say that many of the references in U2 songs are to Christianity specifically, or that much of what is written about U2's faith is from a Christian perspective. Given this, it's hardly suprising that most of the discussions here are focused on Christianity.

I was expecting this. The discussions where people give non-Christians the most trouble are those in here that have nothing to do with music. At times, even the music related threads become problematic for those who are not Christian.

but you can't force discussion of other religions if there isn't an interest in it.

This kind of proves my point. "Forcing" a discussion isn't what I'm talking about. Joining in with intelligent commentary is what I mean.

 

[Elvis]

Yes, I'm well aware that this is not a place of worship. So is stating your beliefs "preaching and crusading" ? Sorry, but I just haven't seen much of that here..honestly the most "preaching" I've seen is from people w/ opposing views. I don't honestly believed I've ever "preached" to anyone.

Nevermind, I wish I never said anything about this

I wasnt pointing at any one person when I made that comment. I spent some time reading this forum, which I admittedly normally do not, and I got an overall feeling of the forum being VERY distant from what I originally intended.

Although anyone is welcome in this forum, and any topic may be brought up as someone stated... from what I read, most non-christians would feel incredibly uncomfortable posting in here.

To be honest, even I felt uncomfortable in here - and not because I'm not christian. Anytime there is too much bias towards one religion or political view... it's going to make someone uncomfortable... and that is NOT the intention of Interference.

While you may be able to give me an example of someone thats uncomfy in any of the forums..... I specifically pay attention to the ones dealing with politics and religion.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Well, I'd just like to say that I for one welcome the opinions of other faiths and beliefs here. I find that very interesting. But what makes ME uncomfortable are posts by people in here that generalize about ALL Christians. I am being honest when I say that there are posts of that ilk here.

I have respect for the views of others regarding any particular faith or religion in general, but I must say I am offended when I see statements like that (like the ones I referenced above). I never say anything about it in this forum though, so maybe that's why I feel the way I do. Those are the types of "blanket statements" that I see here more often than others.

I think it is the nature of the forum, like Fizzing stated, rather than anyone feeling that this forum "belongs to them". Sorry, but I just don't see that. Like I said, I find it interesting to read the views of others, whether I agree w/ them or not, but I think there is a fine line that is crossed on occasion.

 

[nbcrusader]

Also, FYM is so fast-paced, threads drop off the page in a day or two. Here though, they stick around and we can acutally complete a discussion. Take my Church thread for example, now it's moved to FYM and no one there even cares about it. It'll drop off the page if it hasn't already, where as before, I could check here and see if there were new replies.

Maybe threads like the "Church" thread would be better in a FYM subforum.

I've always enjoyed the non-lyric discussions that took place in GIS. Given the varied backgrounds and beliefs, healthy discussion abounded. Personal attacks were non-existent.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Your points about this being perhaps intimidating (my words, I know not yours) to some are valid though as Fizz pointed out, there might be hesitation for others to post in here as they are keeping in mind this is still technically (?) the forum for U2 related Christianity and spirituality etc. You're saying that Christianity or Buddhist regardless, doesn't belong in here. That's fine too.
Some might question if FYM is then the best place for talk on religion in general. As it stands now, I think FYM is full enough with politics and sociological issues. To add religion will be putting a topic which is currently (while limited in denomination) enjoying no flaming or fighting into a hot pot where debate and fighting with words is the norm. It seems there is a big enough call for it, if you decide it is ok to rename and arrange this to encompass all denominations. If you decide to continue without this suggestion, I think FYM will only suffer the increased pressure so to speak. I'm making this sound overly dramatic probably, but even as it all is now, religion is suffering a beating in FYM anyway. Take the topic of gay marriage. Religion will inevitably come up, its never not going to. Put in place religion as a key aspect of FYM and we are going to see more of the blurring so topics such as that are nothing more than trying to prove how wrong someone's beliefs are. I myself said something along the lines of basing a law on religion was bullshit. It was not a comment on religion or what anyone believes in as being right or wrong. That is not what I was calling BS, it was the topic itself. I get the feeling there was offence taken to it and I'm not even going to start on telling people where they were misguided or misunderstood because religion is never about that. I can't say it, and certainly could never moderate it. Faith is not like politics where black and white is possible even amongst the most contrasting of views. It is simply easier to work with the cases where religion crops up now, than adding it to fire which is FYM.

I think this is horribly convoluted now...but basically, I'd like to suggest keeping FYM as it is and perhaps seeing how a general religion even sub forum goes. Adapt this one to fit.

 

[Angela Harlem]

** the above was started after Elvis's reply, but 2 have said something in the meantime so it may make even less sense now lol..

 

[martha]

this is still technically (?) the forum for U2 related Christianity and spirituality etc.

No, it's the forum for U2 and their faith. There is a difference between that and "U2 related Christianity."

 

[Elvis]

No, it's the forum for U2 and their faith. There is a difference between that and "U2 related Christianity."

Martha, you nailed it.

U2 has had religious influence from far beyond Christianity. This forum is NOT only about Chrisitanity.

 

[BVS]

Well I'm sorry, but this forum hasn't been within the paramenters of the guidlines ever since I've been a member. I enjoy coming to this forum but I do find a lot of threads that I do not agree should be in this forum. I've also seen a lot of preaching in here, and then when I would try and question these individual's "sermons" they would hide behind the fact that this was not a place for debate. I wouldn't mind seeing a place to place prayer requests or talk about favorite religious songs, but I think all discussions of religious nature should be in FYM(maybe even a sub forum) because you'll never find two people who believe, interpret, or worship exactly like you do.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I was expecting this. The discussions where people give non-Christians the most trouble are those in here that have nothing to do with music. At times, even the music related threads become problematic for those who are not Christian.

This kind of proves my point. "Forcing" a discussion isn't what I'm talking about. Joining in with intelligent commentary is what I mean.

It seems that people are suggesting people of religions other than Christianity or no religion at all are made to feel uncomfortable because the majority of posters in this forum are Christian. Personally I haven't experienced that, but perhaps others have different experiences.

In any case, if the reason for people feeling uncomfortable is that the majority of posters are Christian, I don't see what can be done about that. Impose quotas? Only so many Christian posters are allowed here? There must be an equal number of posters from every religion so no one feels left out?

I mean if it was that people who are Christians were acting in a way that was bullying or intimidating to people then that would be one thing, but it seems like the real objection is just that the discussions tend to focus on Christianity because that's the religion of the majority of posters. How can you change that?

Besides, the fact that many of the references to religion in U2's lyrics are to Chrstianity and that most articles written about U2's faith are from a Christian perspective mean that this forum is naturally going to have more discussions about Christianity than any other religion.

 

[nbcrusader]

There are many who are uncomfortable about posting in FYM or in specific threads in FYM. It is clear that people want to discuss their faith. GIS seemed like a safe place to do it. If that is not the purpose of GIS, then religious discussion needs a new, safe home.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

There are many who are uncomfortable about posting in FYM or in specific threads in FYM. It is clear that people want to discuss their faith. GIS seemed like a safe place to do it. If that is not the purpose of GIS, then religious discussion needs a new, safe home.

I agree

I am confused. This forum always has felt like a safe, friendly place to discuss faith. And if some people felt otherwise, I don't feel that was as a result of anything intentional on the part of anyone here. But I just have to say it to be true to myself-there is a difference between coming here to discuss your beliefs and matters of faith and coming here to harass (I'm sorry if that is a harsh word, I'm having trouble right now thinking of a better one) others for their beliefs. And being that it DOES say here that this is not a place for debate, I don't think it's fair to accuse anyone of "hiding behind" that.

And I agree completely w/ what Fizzing said in her most recent post. I have never seen anyone say that this forum was only about Christianity

 

[beli]

It seems that people are suggesting people of religions other than Christianity or no religion at all are made to feel uncomfortable because the majority of posters in this forum are Christian. Personally I haven't experienced that, but perhaps others have different experiences.

You may not experience it. I dont post in this forum as I dont feel comfortable. There may be others who simply dont post and you would never know about it.

 

[BVS]

I am confused. This forum always has felt like a safe, friendly place to discuss faith. And if some people felt otherwise, I don't feel that was as a result of anything intentional on the part of anyone here. But I just have to say it to be true to myself-there is a difference between coming here to discuss your beliefs and matters of faith and coming here to harass (I'm sorry if that is a harsh word, I'm having trouble right now thinking of a better one) others for their beliefs. And being that it DOES say here that this is not a place for debate, I don't think it's fair to accuse anyone of "hiding behind" that.

This is part of the point I'm trying to make, how do you propose a "safe place" to discuss your faith, without claiming this is a forum for Christianity? The reason it is a "safe place" now is that probably 98% of the posters in here are Christian. How many non-Christians have you seen post in here? Very few. It may not have been intentional but the flag has placed in the ground sort of speak.

I was involved in a discussion in here where someone said something in the context that all Christians should believe this certain thing. This person's belief was based on their interpretation of the Bible but was stated as fact. It was a belief that I and many others don't believe. I questioned this person's post and they responded by saying "this is not a place for debate", so many of us had to deal with this generalization because this person felt we had no right to debate. Let's not forget their topic didn't even have anything to do with U2. So yes there are those who hide behind this. This was not the only occasion I've seen this either. This happened between two people of the same faith, how do we expect to have these discussions without debate when other religions are involved?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I understand the point you are making BonoVoxSupastar, honestly I do. By "safe place" I meant more a place where you wouldn't feel attacked/harassed in any way for being a believer, whatever form those beliefs take. Mind you, that is just my definition of a safe place..maybe *some* other people might feel that way. I say that only because I feel if I post about those things in FYM, it would be far more likely that I might be "attacked" in some way for it, and that is why I much prefer to discuss my religious beliefs here, in this forum.

I said it in a poor way, but that was really all I was trying to say

 

[beli]

By "safe place" I meant more a place where you wouldn't feel attacked/harassed in any way for being a believer, whatever form those beliefs take.

I think a 'safe place' should mean somewhere where noone is attacked/harrassed, or feel that they might be. This should include people who are not 'believers'.