Harry Potter

[RavenStar]

I just have one little question about this. Why is it that witchcraft is "bad"?

 

[nbcrusader]

I just have one little question about this. Why is it that witchcraft is "bad"?

?The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

This is just the simple answer. A longer theological understanding would get you to the same conclusion.

 

[RavenStar]

But if the witchcraft is being used for good then why is it bad?

 

[nbcrusader]

But if the witchcraft is being used for good then why is it bad?

Because our concept of "good" always falls short of God's concept of good.

Also, when God gives a clear command, He expects us to follow it as given, even if we think we are doing something "better". Aaron's sons learned this the hard way.

 

[RavenStar]

but shouldnt god give you some reason for not practising witchcraft?

 

[nbcrusader]

God is sovereign. That means He doesn't have to answer to anyone.


God doesn't do something because it is good, it is good because God does it.

 

[DebbieSG]

witchcraft is taking things into your own hands, and it is based on usurping power from the earth, in defiance to following God's plan for our lives. we throw things out of balance when we try to control things for our own benefit.

the "light" side of witchcraft may allow you to do good, but you never know what unintended consequences you create, and can't be responsible for. and what's to keep someone, once they tap into this power, from using the "dark" side as well, and punishing people who they don't like?

it's an ultimately unsatisfying enterprise, because the heart finds rest only in God.

 

[bonosloveslave]

witchcraft is taking things into your own hands, and it is based on usurping power from the earth, in defiance to following God's plan for our lives. we throw things out of balance when we try to control things for our own benefit.

the "light" side of witchcraft may allow you to do good, but you never know what unintended consequences you create, and can't be responsible for. and what's to keep someone, once they tap into this power, from using the "dark" side as well, and punishing people who they don't like?

it's an ultimately unsatisfying enterprise, because the heart finds rest only in God.

Well said

 

[Blacksword]

Think of witchcraft as the One Ring. You may want to do good with it and may even do good with it but you are toying with somethng far more powerful than yourself and that you have very little knowledge in. I'm not big into the whole evil spirits thing, being a natural sceptic but my father (who is a minster) has been involved in some spiritual healing groups where occasionally some really nasty junk happens. It hahppens very rarely but he has attested such spiritual things to me. My dad's a rational person by nature (he trained as an engineer before becoming a minister) and I trust him. He may be prone to exaggeration in some areas but never on core faith issues. There's stuff out there that is well beyond our keen and the no witchcraft thing is there to protect us from it. Not everyone who tinkers with it will get hurt but who knows what it could do to you without your knowledge. Atleast that's my rationaization of the forbidden nature of witchraft thing based on what I know. Still a tad sceptical but the Big Guy has our best interests in mind and I'm inclined to trust him.

As to HP in general I feel in most cases it's harmless as long as a child knows that evil is real (though usually not in the magical form) and the stories are fiction. Children are smarter than we reailise. But I think every parent here who opposes HP is holding it back out of love so while I find you reasoning spurious I respect your intent. I can't see too many close minded high and mighty fanatical types hanging out at a U2 forum.

 

[Sparkysgrrrl]

There seems to be a big misunderstanding as to what witchcraft is. Just like Christianity, there are many forms of it, and it's practisted many different ways.
The basic credo is "do as ye will but harm no others"
You do not use spells and such for hurting others, and you don't use them to impose your own wishes on another being. Just like those who read the bible, you don't pray to God to kill someone just because you don't like them. There are those who practise christianity in a bad way, and those that practise witchcraft in a bad way, but it dosen't make the them bad altogether.

 

[Bathtime Fun Whortense]

[No message]

 

[melon]

Witchcraft is considered bad in Christianity, because someone said it was wrong. There is no rational explanation for it, nor has religion ever claimed to be rational. Rationalism is an invention of the 1600s, and put religion in the category of an "innate" idea, giving it a "guarantee of validity," meaning it is outside the realm of rational concepts.

Of course, that doesn't mean you have to agree with the irrational Christian attitude towards witchcraft; just don't expect a logical explanation.

Melon

 

[spanisheyes]

Witchcraft is considered bad in Christianity, because someone said it was wrong.

That Someone would be God.

Chris

 

[melon]

That Someone would be God.

Heh...good one.

But considering the stuff written in the Bible and uttered culturally throughout the ages in the name of God, I highly doubt it. Nothing has changed, except how we view the past.

But feel free to disagree. However, I think there is a far cry between witchcraft and a fictional depiction of it.

Melon

 

[nbcrusader]

Heh...good one.

But considering the stuff written in the Bible and uttered culturally throughout the ages in the name of God, I highly doubt it. Nothing has changed, except how we view the past.

If that Someone isn't God, then there is little point in being a "Christian".

 

[cell]

wow, i can't believe this thread's still going at it. i think everyone will tend to disagree with each other on this subject no matter what.

 

[DebbieSG]

Of course, that doesn't mean you have to agree with the irrational Christian attitude towards witchcraft; just don't expect a logical explanation.

Melon

logos = soul

 

[spanisheyes]

wow, i can't believe this thread's still going at it. i think everyone will tend to disagree with each other on this subject no matter what.

Well agree or disagree, as long as people do it in a respectful way towards each other, than that is cool.

Chris

 

[melon]

If that Someone isn't God, then there is little point in being a "Christian".

You know what I mean. I think you read my personal religious explanations in my "Journal," so I think you understand as to why I'm skeptical of the Bible. My problem is that I think that there are too many groups throughout history--and including groups in the Bible--that simply codified their prejudices, and, to avoid any debate, attributed their prejudices to God.

But back to Harry Potter, I think the question you must first ask is why people read it. Do I see any children abandoning their faith in God and in Christ over J.K. Rowlings' book series here? "Intention" is everything. If an objectively "good" act is done for selfish reasons--i.e., giving $1 million to a charity, just so you can get applause and admiration from society--then it is bad. Likewise, why are people reading Harry Potter? Not to thumb their noses at God, but for the enjoyment of reading! I think there are far worse things to engage in, particularly since these are fairly complex and long books for such an age group. We lament the fact that children waste their lives in front of the television, and here we have a fairly cerebral activity--and it is getting condemned! I mean, really, do you know any children who are reading Harry Potter books? Is it really any different than any other of the literature addressed to children--even when you were young?

I understand that Christianity loves to flex its moral muscles here and then, but I just think that this is too benign of a subject to get frustrated over.

Melon

 

[beegee]

i happen to be a librarian. everyday, i see at least one child check out at least one title from the potter series. and these are local children who, i know, haven't read much else. if this series is getting these children into their libraries and causing them to open themselves up to the wonderful world of reading, where is the problem?

 

[nbcrusader]

Melon,

I've gone back and re-read your earlier journal entries and read the later ones for the first time. I think I understand where you are coming from and the competing tensions that make up who you are.

Moreover, I respect your thoughts and insights and appreciate the genuine love you bring to this forum.

Your brother in Christ.


PS. As for HP, my son is a voracious reader and chose not to read the HP books based on a description of content. He may well change his mind someday and I will be ready to answer any questions he asks.

 

[melon]

PS. As for HP, my son is a voracious reader and chose not to read the HP books based on a description of content. He may well change his mind someday and I will be ready to answer any questions he asks.

And I think this is perfectly okay. I'm glad he was able to make an educated decision as to what he wanted to read. If he does happen to change his mind someday, IMO, I think the book series should have no problem conflicting with his Christian beliefs, certainly as long as you emphasize that it is fantasy *fiction.*

Anyhow, thanks for the comments. Take care!

Melon

 

[DebbieSG]

wasn't Adam Clayton reading the Harry Potter books?

what do you think he read in them? what would he think of witchcraft and boarding schools?

and did he see the movie(s)??

i missed all of this, myself.

well, what can you do when you have to study and work at the same time? Adam probably had lots of free time during the day.

Peace!

 

[Angela Harlem]

If what I have read about Adam Clayton is correct, I doubt he would give much stock to the negatives percieved re: Christianity and witchcraft etc.
Same with the boarding schools. He doesn't come across as a fan of them.

 

[melon]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030203/ap_on_en_mo/vatican_harry_potter_3

To make a long article short, the Vatican finally makes a comment on Harry Potter, and they see no problem with it.

Melon

 

[RavenStar]

melon you beat me to it.

 

[The_Sweetest_Thing]

I wonder what a child gets out of reading such books? The arguments against are certainly valid and by no means anything to write off. I just wonder whether a child would see enough to appreciate a darker message in them? I dont think I had a less or even more than average imagination or set of 'smarts' when I was young, but if Potter was around then, I doubt I would have seen past the simpler side of it. The magic, the exciting path Harry's life takes, the good ole bad guys verse good guys, Harry triumphantly overcoming all his hurdles. If religion was a larger part of my childhood and I had read them, I do wonder if that really would have made much of a difference. That is a question I suppose no one knows, but I do think we may apply our own wisdom and ability to see the fuller picture to children who might be somewhat ignorant that it exists.

Originally posted by martha
They teach our children to fight against evil at all costs, to search for truth both in books and in life, to make choices and understand both the short-term and long-term consequences of those choices, to understand that love is the most powerful force, to play fair, to rely on friends when they're needed, to act independently when it's required, to be honest.

To agree with these two ladies above me:

I am a Catholic (and therefore a Christian) and an avid reader of the HP series -- as is my little sister (she's 13 now but has been reading HP since she was about 8).

The only message I gathered from these books is as martha stated above: the power of love, friendship, etc. I think JK Rowling has taken the classic evil vs good battle and placed into a very fictional, fantastical realm that is made solely to appeal to new groups of readers and intrigue children. While it is nice to read stories about kids who faced evil in a real-life manner (bullies, racism, etc), sometimes a change from the ordinary and something so imaginative can only stimulate children.

I don't see the fuss in reading about Harry being a warlock. I think most children have a firm grip on reality and thus realize that Harry Potter is simply imagination. Many don't go around truly practicing "Wingardium Leviosa" or attempting to make snakes appear from wands. Even thoe that do eventually realize that this is simply fiction and that witchcraft does not exist. And where is the harm? Every child learns through his/her mistakes. So if my child recites a few incantations and then notes that witchcraft is false, i would rather see that then have them play with toy guns, start swearing, etc. Eventually, I hope that my children will see that the only 'magic' in the world is through the miracles of God.

Children, even those brough up as Catholics, even children who are educated (my sister, for one), is as angie said: somewhat ignorant to the full picture. What has she (my sister) gained from HP? She's done character sketches on the three main characters. She's been able to see their good qualities and characteristics: Ron - gut instinct, sturdy friendship, loyalty. Harry - courage, bravery, love for parents. Hermione - intelligent, fortitide. She pointed out to me that the characterisitcs and traits of these children, on their own, is not enough to defeat the forces of evil, but rather, once banded together, these children were able to overcome their problems. They were able to contribute their best traits to the cause, illustrating that the power of friendship and love is what helps heal the world.

Where do you draw the line? Do you not allow your children to watch Disney films because they show fantastical situations? (Witches, dragons, mermaids).

I would rather my sister read HP at the age of 13 than begin reading the Mary Kate and Ashely Olsen books. I would rather she learn lessons about perserverance and determination than learning about how to apply make up, or how to flirt with a boy.

 

[Natztar]

I've never thought that there was anything wrong with reading Harry Potter books until reading this thread. It's not something that I've thought about, but I just think HP books ARE just some fantasy world.

For the parents who didn't permit their kids reading HP books, I think it's good on them... so they won't get weird ideas in their head ... but if you didn't allow them to read a series like this that doesn't really have THAT much 'evil' in it then it's hard to imagine how many millions of other things they'll need to block out - the internet for a start. Probably about 80% of the programmes and channels on tv. I'm not the best at explaining things, but do you get what I mean? Kids have to make their own decisions about God and things.. it's great to prevent them from getting weird ideas but it's not going to stop from discovering all these small things that their parents never told them about...

Okay, I'm not quite sure what I'm going on about but that's sort of my opinion.. on HP books..