God is a marker?

[Lilly]

Today in sociology, we were discussing what we (30 high school seniors and on middle aged extremely religious teacher) thought the meaning of life is. She said that we "have the manual all we have to do is follow it." Which almost gave me a stroke! I go to a public school and to hear those words out of a teacher's mouth without a "what do you think?" or anything after it set me off. She went on to say that religion is a fact, and nobody knows the true fact until they die. To illustrate this idea to those in the class that are not the brightest bulbs (it's a general class...

don't get me started) she placed a marker under a piece of paper. She asked several students what color they thought the marker was. I was the only one to accurately depict the marker color. She said that's what religion is. Some believed red and others blue but I believed yellow, and I was the only one who was correct. I had seen the marker. I knew it was yellow and I told her so. I said that made me a cheat and that in her theory I would go to hell for that anyway.

Where this story is leading is, is God a marker? Is He something that is either right or wrong? If I believe something different than you and you believe something different than the next person, are we all wrong, or can you be "close enough?"

Personally I think that God is not a fact, meaning right or wrong. God is a belief that some have and some don't. Those who don't believe may be right (though I don't agree), but just because they don't believe we can't lose respect for them as a whole. Our beliefs may vary, but we all have the same focal point: God. His existence. Are there as many ways to life as we want? Are all of our chosen paths acceptable? What do you all think?

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It's the puppets that pull the strings.

*You're very kind. Most people laugh when they see my googly eye.*

+Hilarryous. Oh, it will catch on+

 

[80sU2isBest]

Although I don't know the point of the marker thing, I can tell you that I believe that the big truth (God)is absolute, not relative.

For instance, I am a born again Christian. My beliefs are very very different from a Muslim's beliefs. If the Muslim is right, I am wrong. If Christ is the way, the Muslim is wrong. It's that simple to me, based on the fact that both belief system claim to be the only truth. Therefore, if one is right, all conflicting belief systems must be wrong. It's as simple as that to me.
Thanks.

 

[anitram]

I struggle with this mainly because through studying the world religions, you can come across religions which don't necessarily believe in a "my way or the highway" view. There is a syncretism, or a conglomeration, if you will, of religious views so that you have religions influencing one another, and drawing from each other's teachings. This is really evident in the eastern religions like Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. I find this fascinating, and it sometimes has me question whether or not the Judeo-Christian, or the Muslim views of "our way is the right way" is necessarily an approach I agree with.

 

[martha]

Originally posted by Lilly:
Are all of our chosen paths acceptable? What do you all think?

With careful, somewhat objective study, the world's religions all have the same basic grain of Truth to them. They are not as different as their more dogmatic adherents like to think. So, I think that they are all paths; they just take different routes! I'd expand more on this, but I need to see what happens here. I'm a little cautious, even here in this forum. I'll check back.

 

[SummerRain]

I am not an expert on the Bible by any means. But I do believe that it says not to judge others. This is something I hold within my heart. For me, Christianity is the only path, but I do not judge others who take different paths. I have a deep respect for any person who dedicates their life to God, no matter what they may call Him. That may seem silly and naive, but I think there really is but one God and that He doesn't really mind what you call Him as long as you believe

 

[ZooGrl]

Lilly- I loved your post. i've often thought about why people believe in God to begin with. First of all, I just want to say that if I offend anyone with this post, it is certainly not my intention. I just want to look at things from a different perspective...
Personally, I consider myself agnostic. I can't say that I believe in God, but I don't consider myself an atheist either. I think I believe in the *idea* of God, not an actual God. (More on this later). I'm actually reading the Bible, I never have before but I started last week after reading some of the posts in this forum and getting some inspiration, and so far I'm really enjoying reading it.
Here's my theory about religion. I think religion, or maybe I should say spirituality-- believing-- can be a great thing. But it can also be taken too far.
I have often thought about the idea of God as almost a type of placebo. For example, if someone loses a parent, lover, child, etc, they can find strength in praying to God. Whether or not God exists is irrelevant-- they are simply gaining a deeper insight into themselves by believing. In return, their belief in God is sustained because they believe he has helped them overcome the obstacle they needed to deal with. In reality, they are finding the strength within themselves that might possibly be found if they did not believe in a higher power. So in this sense, I believe the power of the belief in God can accomplish amazing things- even if I don't necessarily believe in God.
That said, and I think that religion can also be used in a negative way. When people don't have the answers, they get defensive. They defend themselves by disregarding other peoples' beliefs because they threaten the validity of their own. When you get right down to it, there are no right are wrong answers because there is no way to prove God's existence. I know, I know, it's all about faith, but the problem with faith is that it so often means you have to say, "no, you're wrong, I'm right" in order to stay a believer. I remember sitting next to a guy in one of my philosophy classes a few years ago; he would sit with his bible and quote passages about the Lord condemning homosexuality, yet he could never say why *he* condemned it. It was always the same answer, "because it's in the Bible".

I think the idea of faith is great, but sometimes it frustrates me when I see it being manipulated into something harmful... And that said, I think the key is to realize that although others may believe something different than you, that doesn't mean that your beliefs are being threatened. To finish with a quote from Bono: "To be united, to be one, is a great thing. But to respect differences may be even greater."

 

[Lilly]

Originally posted by ZooGrl:
To finish with a quote from Bono: "To be united, to be one, is a great thing. But to respect differences may be even greater."

Ahhh Bono, what doesn't he know how to sum up easily into a sentence or two? Awww ZooGirl, a fabulous post. I too am reading the Bible. Parts of it I'm all about, others I'm a bit skepical of. But it's a positive experience alltogether. Don't you think?

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It's the puppets that pull the strings.

*You're very kind. Most people laugh when they see my googly eye.*

+fabulous+

 

[truecoloursfly]

Zoogrl, that was an awesomely lucid post!! I took a lot from it.

SummerRain --

I have a deep respect for any person who dedicates their life to God, no matter what they may call Him. That may seem silly and naive, but I think there really is but one God and that He doesn't really mind what you call Him as long as you believe.

-- that is not "naive." I think it's elemental. I take God to be a creative force -- no, THE Creative Force, Perfect Consciousness, manifest (as best I can tell) in time as life itself and in human consciousness as the mystery we call Love. It is an absolute fact. We, however, are IMperfect consciousness, we see through the glass darkly (or like the five blind guys each describing an elephant...), and describe God according to collective and individual experience. Our differences have more to do with language -- literal and cultural -- than with having the scoop on the Truth.
I think, as SummerRain said, a life dedicated to God is the indicator of a mission we may all recognize, beyond the language it speaks. Wait -- "God" is a loaded word, of course, and the sign I actually recognize is a life dedicated to Love. The God of Truth's name is always Love, in any language.

Deb D

 

[ZooGrl]

Thanks
Actually, yes, I am really enjoying reading the Bible.
It's also exciting because as a writer, especially as a writer of poetry, I am fascinated by Bono's lyrical skills and have always aspired to be able to write like him. But mimicing his style isn't what I'm looking for- I want to know where he finds inspiration. Of course I know a large part of that is the Bible and spirituality, but it's really amazing to have barely started reading and already see the similarities and where he gets certain lyrics. For example, 'One Tree Hill'-- my favorite song lyrically. See the similarity:

One Tree Hill: "Jara sang, his song a weapon/ In the hands of love/ You know his blood still cries/ From the ground

Genesis 4:10- "The Lord said, 'What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground'"

I know this sounds strange, but it feels amazing to be able to look at the world almost as if it was through Bono's eyes, just in being able to see how he is inspired. Moreover, the Bible is beautiful to read. Anyway, back to One Tree Hill-- it got me thinking again, I just find the lyrics so beautiful, so I'm going to post them. I love the metaphors addressed in this song, especially the idea of water that runs (pardon the pun) throughout that is used as a metaphor for cleansing and healing. Truly beautiful words...


"One Tree Hill"

We turn away to face the cold, enduring chill
As the day begs the night for mercy, love
The sun so bright it leaves no shadows
Only scars carved into stone
On the face of earth
The moon is up and over One Tree Hill
We see the sun go down in your eyes

You run like river, on like a sea
You run like a river runs to the sea

And in the world a heart of darkness
A firezone
Where poets speak their heart
Then bleed for it
Jara sang, his song a weapon
In the hands of love
You know his blood still cries
From the ground

It runs like a river runs to the sea
It runs like a river to the sea

I don't believe in painted roses
Or bleeding hearts
While bullets rape the night of the merciful
I'll see you again
When the stars fall from the sky
And the moon has turned red
Over One Tree Hill

We run like a river
Run to the sea
We run like a river to the sea
And when it's raining
Raining hard
That's when the rain will
Break my heart

Raining, raining in the heart
Raining in your heart
Raining, raining to your heart
Raining, raining, raining
Raining to your heart
Raining, raining in your heart
Raining in your heart
To the sea

Oh, great ocean
Oh, great sea
Run to the ocean
Run to the sea

 

[Lilly]

While I see where you are coming from on the Bible thing where it opens your mind to new metaphors, don't forget that there are many metaphores Bono uses that are direcly abiblical. Many of the word choices he uses are meant to connote the Bible story to go along with it to add to the overall meaning of the song. It does not necessarily mean that the whole song is about that particular Bible story (which is obviously not the case in the aforesaid example, but there are many others to be used). That's about all
-Lil

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It's the puppets that pull the strings.

*You're very kind. Most people laugh when they see my googly eye.*

+fabulous+

The Edge, it's a direct object.