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Old 03-27-2003, 02:07 AM   #1
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confused?!

Okay, here are two things that I SO cannot figure out. i hope someone can help me out here...

Firstly. I haven't read much of the old testament but from what I've flicked through there are heaps of strange rules and things. Why is it that we follow SOME things in the old testament like the 10 commandments etc but don't follow those rules? Do we just pick out what we want or something?

Secondly. Judas Iscariot (or whatever) is the guy who betrayed Jesus. Without him Jesus wouldn't have died on the cross for us. Doesn't that mean what Judas did was good? If he didn't do it surely someone else would have, so someone would have gone to hell for Jesus???

Those are two questions that I've had in me for so long, becuase I was almost sure I couldn't find someone to answer them...
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Old 03-27-2003, 09:20 AM   #2
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I'll try to answer these briefly - then add more later.

1. The first five books of the Old Testament contain what is known as "The Law". These were given by God to the Hebrews to describe the proper way to relate to God and to each other. By observing all of the Law, you could have a right relationship with God.

The New Testament tells us that the Law was replaced by Christ's death and resurrection. We do not need to follow the Law to have a right relationship with God, only to have faith in Christ. The Law, however, still makes us aware of the sin in our lives. Example – Romans 7:7, which states What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."

2. Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him and gave him opportunities not to do it. Yes, in a way the result is “good” in that we would not have salvation but for the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, that does not then validate or make Judas’ action “good”.

These are great questions - please feel free to ask for any clarifications.
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Old 03-27-2003, 09:44 AM   #3
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Allow me to add something I consider to be highly important:

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (Rom. 13:8-10)

"Love" is the law, and anything else is a ritualistic accessory.

As far as Judas goes, I don't pass judgment on him, despite the fact that Dante's "Inferno" puts him in the lowest depths of hell.

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Old 03-27-2003, 01:21 PM   #4
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I've always been fascinated with this question of Judas. Being that his betrayal was all in part of Christ's death which if he wasn't crucified, would we have Christianity? One of the reasons Until the End of the World has always been a fave of mine.

To a lesser degree I have the same question about Pilate. Being that he really didn't want to send Christ to death but did so to protect his career. Inspired by UTEOTW I wrote a song similar in idea, but from Pilate's point of view. Where Pilate as a very arrogant politician, asks Christ if he'll forgive him due to the fact that his career move "made" Christ who is.
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Old 03-27-2003, 02:17 PM   #5
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Christian tradition through the centuries has refused to pass judgment on Pilate one way or another.

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Old 03-27-2003, 03:49 PM   #6
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What do you mean exactly? You mean no church has come out to say they believe he was wrong or they haven't come out to say if they believed he went to heaven or hell? I'm just curious.
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Old 03-27-2003, 04:35 PM   #7
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Melon may be referring to Catholic tradition - I will let him address the specifics.

I have always seen Pilate portrayed as one more concerned in his position (and "keeping the peace" while occupying Judea) than in justice. His washing his hands of the situation shows his feeble attempt to deny his own sin.
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Old 03-27-2003, 05:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
What do you mean exactly? You mean no church has come out to say they believe he was wrong or they haven't come out to say if they believed he went to heaven or hell? I'm just curious.
I mentioned "Christian tradition," because this tradition is older than Protestantism. Of course, maybe it has mutated into Catholic tradition. No judgment is passed on Pontius Pilate, because he did not condemn Jesus. He left the choice up to the Jews to decide whether to save Him or not, and they chose to condemn him. Of course, this same tradition also tends to get quite anti-Semitic, but that's a whole other story.

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Old 03-27-2003, 06:52 PM   #9
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I see what you're saying, but I think Protestants take a slightly different approach. In the Apostle's ***** we say "He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried."

That's why I was curious of your interpretation.

I found this as well. It's a little simplistic, but it's interesting.

http://www.credo.ndirect.co.uk/suffered.html

This one's interesting as well

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1273594.stm

Regardless I've always found him interesting. The power he held, the weakness he portrayed, representation of everything I dislike about politicians today.

Hey why does it edit out the c-r-e-e-d word?
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Old 03-28-2003, 07:50 AM   #10
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I think that is just Elvis's hatred for the so-called 'rock' band, BonoVoxSuperstar.

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Old 03-28-2003, 11:30 AM   #11
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Interesting... I just think it's funny that out of all the words here in the forum, ***** is the one that get's
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Old 03-29-2003, 03:34 AM   #12
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Thanks so much for the clarification guys... please still add your comment if you have something to say ... I like to hear other people's perspectives of things.

I never really thought about pilate... he makes me wonder as much as judas does. Hmmmmm...
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Old 04-01-2003, 07:38 AM   #13
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Natztar:
1.
Anyway, people who like to abuse christianity prefer to ignore what they don't want to read in the bible and take sentences out of context - so yes, we (humans) do just pick out what we want

2.
Why do you think that the way it hapened was the only way Jesus could save our souls?
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Old 04-03-2003, 12:14 PM   #14
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good points Klaus,

I havent been in here in awhile,, just saying hello...
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Old 04-05-2003, 09:06 PM   #15
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Hello Elvis
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